Quickley or Shead?

[Basketball_Jones]

They both pair well playing together, so let’s be happy for now we don’t have one without the other. Neither are untouchable. Both are solid.

[MEDIC]

They both pair well playing together, so let’s be happy for now we don’t have one without the other. Neither are untouchable. Both are solid.

I am buying into this more and more. Especially now that Darko seems to be willing to bench IQ in late game scenarios if his shot isn't falling or if the team simply needs defense at POA.

I think we are stuck with IQ's contract, so settle in. Let him grow, let the team grow & let Shead develop in the background.

Havjng said that.......the playoffs will have a huge impact on how people view IQ moving forward. If he steps up & wins us a series, people will love him. If he goes cold & we lose the series, the pitchforks will be out.

That's just the way its going to be.

Bobby still has to find a way to Re-sign RJ and Mamu though...

[Basketball_Jones]

They both pair well playing together, so let’s be happy for now we don’t have one without the other. Neither are untouchable. Both are solid.

I am buying into this more and more. Especially now that Darko seems to be willing to bench IQ in late game scenarios if he shot isn't falling or if the team simply needs defense at POA.

I think we are stuck with IQ's contract, so settle in. Let him grow, let the team grow & lead Shead develop in the background.

Havjng said that.......the playoffs will have a huge impact on how people view IQ moving forward. If he steps up & wins us a series, people will love him. If he goes cold & we lose the series, the pitchforks will be out.

That's just the way its going to be.

Bobby still has to find a way to Re-sign RJ and Mamu though...

Yeah my main concern with IQ is the playoffs, which hasn’t even happened yet lol. I do think he’s sink or swim there and we’ll be talking about upgrading our backcourt if he doesn’t perform. He’s quite fine for now.

[YogurtProducer]

I feel the same way. Like I keep saying, I liked the Davion/ Jamal pairing a lot more than I like the Imanuel/ Jamal pairing.

The Davion / Shead pairing was not a feasible long term option. You cant have 48 minutes of PG play from non-shooting threats

I think IQ is more skilled as a scorer right now. Jamal has higher basketball IQ, is more athletic & a much better defender. I actually think Jamal has the higher ceiling between the two.

Unless Shead magically becomes a high volume 3 point shooter, that simply isn't the case. Shead is a much better defender when he is a bench guy playing 18mpg, but don't forget IQ was labeled as a great defender to in NYK. The difference between the two defensively isn't huge. It is just natural when guys get more minute and offensive responsibility the defence drops. Same thing would happen to Shead if he played 32mpg.

Jamal still only has 1 year of NBA experience & is 23 years old. He is shooting better than Lowry was at the same age & his assist numbera are a lot better than Lowry's were at 23 years old. Lowry had been in the league for 3+ years at that point. I am really interested in seeing where Shead's game is at in 2-3 years (he will be about the same age as Lowry when he was traded here).

Comparing the 2026 era where Shead has been developing in the 3point climate and 2008 era where Lowry was never encouraged to shoot 3's is not the same thing.

I think he will figure out the shooting......the guy is a worker.

Sure. But this is a 4-year college player who is in his 2nd NBA season. It has been 6 years of high level development to figure out his shot and it never happened. Here is his shooting splits:
FR - 12.5% (barely played)
SO - 29.8%
JR - 31.0%
SR - 30.9%
ROOK - 32.3%
SOPH - 33.1%

He is more than likely going to be a bad shooter for the rest of his career.

Another poster brought this name up in another thread & his is a perfect comp. Jose Alverado.

23 year old rookie. Fiesty & undersized. Couldn't shoot his first 2 seasons in the league, but figured it out at 25 years old.

Shot .322 overall in his first 2 years in the league.

Shot .377 in his 3rd season at 25 years old. Last 3 seasons, a combined .365. That's a pretty big jump.

Shead's is actually shooting better than Alverado at 23 years old.

Jose Alvarado shot 34% from 3 in college, including 39% as as senior.

But either way - no one is saying Shead cant/wont develop his shot, it is just that historically if yu look at the thousands of NBA players who have entered the league, the likelihood of a 4-year senior who cant shoot and hasn't shot well in his first 2 NBA seasons either figuring out it out is low.

[YogurtProducer]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

[ConSarnit]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

It’s becoming madness. They’re willing to (massively) compromise shooting to get a defender and creator starting on a team with Poeltl and Barnes (29% from 3 over the last 30 games) in the front court (not to mention Barrett who is below average as a shooter).

We have a TOP 3 defensive rating in the league. We don’t need help there. We are a bad 3pt shooting team and their solution is to get rid of our highest volume and best 3pt shooter. How does that make sense?

Shead is literally a bottom 10 scorer in the league amongst actual rotation players. He’s not even all that great of a passer for his position. Why people are clamoring for him to start is beyond me. Competent backup? Sure. Anywhere near a starter? Absolutely not.

Those calling for a better defender at PG: how much of a defensive boost are you imagining we’ll get above already being a top 3 defense?

[navyblue]

People are enamored by energy, defense, effort etc. Those things stick out in memory, but all those things are doable when you are th backup, they dont translate to being full time pg and the minutes\matchups(both sides playing with starters and playing other team starters)

Shead game will not translate to being a starter, he is perfectly suited to where he is.

Iam not even hostage to keeping him, if they can get an asset for shead move him, alijah martin next man up is just as capable.

[MEDIC]

I think shooting is easier to replace in todays league than dribble penetration, defense & high baaketball IQ. Especially at the PG position.

Of course....unless you are a prime Steph Curry.

[YogurtProducer]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

It’s becoming madness. They’re willing to (massively) compromise shooting to get a defender and creator starting on a team with Poeltl and Barnes (29% from 3 over the last 30 games) in the front court (not to mention Barrett who is below average as a shooter).

We have a TOP 3 defensive rating in the league. We don’t need help there. We are a bad 3pt shooting team and their solution is to get rid of our highest volume and best 3pt shooter. How does that make sense?

Shead is literally a bottom 10 scorer in the league amongst actual rotation players. He’s not even all that great of a passer for his position. Why people are clamoring for him to start is beyond me. Competent backup? Sure. Anywhere near a starter? Absolutely not.

Those calling for a better defender at PG: how much of a defensive boost are you imagining we’ll get above already being a top 3 defense?

And you know, my hot take is Shead is closer to NBA 3rd stringer than he is to an NBA starter.

He is a great defender - but far from elite to the point where we can ignore a 48.8TS%. He is currently the least efficient player in the entire league. Last year he was the 6th lowest in the association.

Fact of the matter - the most important trait in the league in shooting, ESPECIALLY from your guards. I know we focus on the shooting a lot (with IQ, and even Shead), but Shead also cant score from 2 point land either. He is literally tied for last in the league with a 41% rate from 2 point land.

[YogurtProducer]

I think shooting is easier to replace in todays league than dribble penetration, defense & high baaketball IQ. Especially at the PG position.

Of course....unless you are a prime Steph Curry.

Those 3 things are all great. But if you are rocking a sub 50TS% with it, your ability to be an NBA player is tough.

SHooting like IQ is not easy to replace either. He is having a down year so far, but he is an upper echelon shooter.

[Westside Gunn]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

Are people forgetting we got him for OG and not some star prospect.

A creating PG is not even a neccisity with this starting line up. We have plenty of options that can make something out of a broken play .

[Merit]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

It’s becoming madness. They’re willing to (massively) compromise shooting to get a defender and creator starting on a team with Poeltl and Barnes (29% from 3 over the last 30 games) in the front court (not to mention Barrett who is below average as a shooter).

We have a TOP 3 defensive rating in the league. We don’t need help there. We are a bad 3pt shooting team and their solution is to get rid of our highest volume and best 3pt shooter. How does that make sense?

Shead is literally a bottom 10 scorer in the league amongst actual rotation players. He’s not even all that great of a passer for his position. Why people are clamoring for him to start is beyond me. Competent backup? Sure. Anywhere near a starter? Absolutely not.

Those calling for a better defender at PG: how much of a defensive boost are you imagining we’ll get above already being a top 3 defense?

In every trade I have proposed involving IQ, I have added a competent shooter in return.

Speaking for myself, I’m only interested in shead starting if we move quickley and don’t get another point guard or guard back. Most people seem to agree and are including Carter and Ellis in trade proposals for Sabonis.

I’m more concerned about IQ’s lack of passing than I am his defense. He tries, at least.

When we go smaller and play IQ with Shead his offensive skills play up. That’s the role I see him in, preferably as a 6th man. In other words, he hasn’t changed or improved much since he arrived from New York. That’s precisely why I’d like to move on from him and potentially weaken our shooting from the pg spot if we are upgrading our team as a whole.

[Indeed]

I think shooting is easier to replace in todays league than dribble penetration, defense & high baaketball IQ. Especially at the PG position.

Of course....unless you are a prime Steph Curry.

You are joking to say Curry does not have 3 of the 2, I suppose.

Curry has a good handle and can actually play PG, and of course his basketball IQ was developed with his dad. Furthermore, Curry shooting is at another level, which to compensate his defense

However, Quickley only fulfill two of the four.

As for your point, indeed, shooting is more easier to replace at your 3rd and 4th option with C being exception. Shooting is only very important when you get lack of shooting from your 3rd or 4th option with C not spacing the floor.

[mathgeek]

I really don't understand the hate for IQ. I mean lots of you guys say it here, he's not a PG, so why is this even a comparison. He's easily our best volume 3 pt shooter. Shead is a good back up PG.

[Merit]

I think most people that aren't big on IQ simply want something different from a PG.

They want a PG that can attack his man off the dribble & shift the defense in doing so (creating plays for others). This is especially needed when plays break down & we have nothing going on, or when the team's 1/2 court offense is struggling . They also want improved on ball defense.

That’s fine but then we just create other problems (lack of shooting, spacing etc.). These are critically important in meaningful games. We saw it in the playoffs last year.

Exactly this. People seem to be missing that IQ's shooting does a lot to help Barnes / Ingram out.

Sure, but the fact of the matter is if IQ could attack off the dribble, create for others at a higher level, AND was a higher level of defender, we are straight up describing an all-star player. If you also want him to be a IQ level shooter, that is a guy who is threatening for 1st-team all-nba nods

It is just a crazy freakin' ask of a guy.

This board wants all our players to be all-star caliber players making sixth man money.

Are people forgetting we got him for OG and not some star prospect.

A creating PG is not even a neccisity with this starting line up. We have plenty of options that can make something out of a broken play .

Hold up. Yeah we have BI at the back end of the shot clock, but we don’t have someone who consistently gets two feet in the paint other than RJ. Last I checked we were something like 16-6 with him in the lineup.

I want to see IQ drive and kick and run something other than a basic pick and roll with Jak. I want to see IQ hunt for others, not just for his own shot.

If that makes people think I hate him, so be it. He’s a prime candidate to be moved - as are Ochai and Gradey.

The only reason we’re focused on volume 3 point shooting is because Scottie doesn’t provide much of it so we are more reliant on other positions. This is precisely why Mamu is so valuable and why RJ’s improved performance from 3 is valuable.

We can get volume 3 point shooting for far less with a far smaller role. Think Battle or guys like Tim Hardaway Jr.

[Merit]

I think shooting is easier to replace in todays league than dribble penetration, defense & high baaketball IQ. Especially at the PG position.

Of course....unless you are a prime Steph Curry.

You are joking to say Curry does not have 3 of the 2, I suppose.

Curry has a good handle and can actually play PG, and of course his basketball IQ was developed with his dad. Furthermore, Curry shooting is at another level, which to compensate his defense

However, Quickley only fulfill two of the four.

As for your point, indeed, shooting is more easier to replace at your 3rd and 4th option with C being exception. Shooting is only very important when you get lack of shooting from your 3rd or 4th option with C not spacing the floor.

I’m going to agree with Medic’s statement above. This is because I have learned from overrating Gary Trent Jr. previously I valued him more than Tyler Herro because of his shooting and advanced stats projections. Never again.

Herro can create his own shot and can shoot. He has a high basketball IQ.

I continue to wonder what a lineup that pushed RJ to the bench as 6th man would look like for the Raps. Could we make some sort of a Rudy Gay trade to get a backup big and lesser starting pg and shore up our bench? Or could we make a trade for a Lamelo where our size and bbiq are difficult to game plan against? If we play lamelo we can conceivably switch just about everything in a lamelo/RJ/BI/Scottie/CMB or Mamu lineup.

I’m also going to agree with indeed where they suggest it’s easier to find depth shooting than it is to find depth shot creation.

[Indeed]

I really don't understand the hate for IQ. I mean lots of you guys say it here, he's not a PG, so why is this even a comparison. He's easily our best volume 3 pt shooter. Shead is a good back up PG.

Our best volume 3 point shooter could be Battle if he gets more playing time.

The biggest difference to your view is that 3 point shooting doesn't get our offense to a respectable level, missing Barrett was a big hit to our offense, yet, Quickley who is being paid more cannot produce that.

Simply say, Quickley does not have half of the skill we need, and a backup that provides lesser skill is now in the controversy of replacing him, not because he is better, but he has what we need even at a lower quality.

[YogurtProducer]

I really don't understand the hate for IQ. I mean lots of you guys say it here, he's not a PG, so why is this even a comparison. He's easily our best volume 3 pt shooter. Shead is a good back up PG.

Our best volume 3 point shooter could be Battle if he gets more playing time.

The biggest difference to your view is that 3 point shooting doesn't get our offense to a respectable level, missing Barrett was a big hit to our offense, yet, Quickley who is being paid more cannot produce that.

Simply say, Quickley does not have half of the skill we need, and a backup that provides lesser skill is now in the controversy of replacing him, not because he is better, but he has what we need even at a lower quality.

You’ve never see what our team looks like without IQ

[YogurtProducer]

quote]
Hold up. Yeah we have BI at the back end of the shot clock, but we don’t have someone who consistently gets two feet in the paint other than RJ. Last I checked we were something like 16-6 with him in the lineup.

I want to see IQ drive and kick and run something other than a basic pick and roll with Jak. I want to see IQ hunt for others, not just for his own shot.

If that makes people think I hate him, so be it. He’s a prime candidate to be moved - as are Ochai and Gradey.

The only reason we’re focused on volume 3 point shooting is because Scottie doesn’t provide much of it so we are more reliant on other positions. This is precisely why Mamu is so valuable and why RJ’s improved performance from 3 is valuable.

We can get volume 3 point shooting for far less with a far smaller role. Think Battle or guys like Tim Hardaway Jr.

Yes, no **** we are focused on volume 3 point shooting when our best player(s) don’t do it at a good or high volume.

[Dennis 37]

I think shooting is easier to replace in todays league than dribble penetration, defense & high baaketball IQ. Especially at the PG position.

Of course....unless you are a prime Steph Curry.

You just have to look at the teams we have played this year. Almost all of them have multiple shooters with high 30 if not 40 3P%.