Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[Risk101]

Ford and Pelton revised their Insider top 10 today. They have it going:

Simmons
Ingram
Murray
Bender
Hield
Dunn
Chriss
Ellenson
Labissiere << Raps
Poeltl

Interesting they have Brown out of the top 10. I have to agree with both guys about being lukewarm on Skal - really don't like how soft he plays as well as his lack of motor and rebounding.

I'll copy just the Skal feedback:

9. Toronto Raptors

Skal Labissiere
Kentucky
Freshman
Forward/center

Pelton: Can I trade? I don't love any of the options here from Toronto's standpoint with Chriss and Ellenson off the board. Jakob Poeltl is too similar to Jonas Valanciunas. The Raptors already have two young point guards behind All-Star Kyle Lowry. And I'm not sure any of the best wings available could beat out Norman Powell for playing time.

So I guess I'm going with Labissiere -- if he pans out, he could fit well with Valanciunas. (Big if!)

Ford: Labissiere is a big risk here, but Toronto GM Masai Ujiri is a big risk-taker and the talent makes Labissiere an intriguing fit long term for the Raptors. They need help at power forward, and a stretch 4 seems especially appealing.

On the downside, Ujiri has always been a fan of tough players. There doesn't seem to be much of that in Labissiere, so Ujiri could perhaps go with someone like Domantas Sabonis instead.

Deyonta Davis is a more intriguing overall player then Skal is. I don't want players who you have to question wether or not they'll give you effort.

[UneducatedFan86]

Ford and Pelton revised their Insider top 10 today. They have it going:

Simmons
Ingram
Murray
Bender
Hield
Dunn
Chriss
Ellenson
Labissiere << Raps
Poeltl

Interesting they have Brown out of the top 10. I have to agree with both guys about being lukewarm on Skal - really don't like how soft he plays as well as his lack of motor and rebounding.

I'll copy just the Skal feedback:

9. Toronto Raptors

Skal Labissiere
Kentucky
Freshman
Forward/center

Pelton: Can I trade? I don't love any of the options here from Toronto's standpoint with Chriss and Ellenson off the board. Jakob Poeltl is too similar to Jonas Valanciunas. The Raptors already have two young point guards behind All-Star Kyle Lowry. And I'm not sure any of the best wings available could beat out Norman Powell for playing time.

So I guess I'm going with Labissiere -- if he pans out, he could fit well with Valanciunas. (Big if!)

Ford: Labissiere is a big risk here, but Toronto GM Masai Ujiri is a big risk-taker and the talent makes Labissiere an intriguing fit long term for the Raptors. They need help at power forward, and a stretch 4 seems especially appealing.

On the downside, Ujiri has always been a fan of tough players. There doesn't seem to be much of that in Labissiere, so Ujiri could perhaps go with someone like Domantas Sabonis instead.

Skal has a lot of talent. It's just a matter of him actually getting to that level. I can see him working really well next to JV. I've been on the Luwawu/Skal bandwagon for awhile. But if Brown is there, I don't see why we don't take the risk and get him. If we can get any of them then I'm happy. I can see us moving back and getting another pick in the teens (trading 9th for 15th and 19th) or trying to move up and getting someone else (Murray). I wouldn't move the pick for a vet or anything like that. This team needs high-ceiling talent that is cheap/controllable for years to come.

It really comes down to what Masai thinks this teams ceiling is. After this playoff, I don't think we are any closer to knowing that than we were last year. Yes, we got out of the first round but this team has been UGLY. Ugly and at full strength.

[MavCarter]

Do not want skal. No more mental midgets lol

[MavCarter]

Skal is going to have to spend a lot of time in the dleague

[alpngso]

I hope we can get Ulis. He's a baller.

[Dalek]

Do not want skal. No more mental midgets lol

Every time I look at the guy I see Channing Frye. One of those soft college guys that end up gravitating towards the perimeter. I want someone who can compete.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Ford and Pelton revised their Insider top 10 today. They have it going:

Simmons
Ingram
Murray
Bender
Hield
Dunn
Chriss
Ellenson
Labissiere << Raps
Poeltl

Interesting they have Brown out of the top 10. I have to agree with both guys about being lukewarm on Skal - really don't like how soft he plays as well as his lack of motor and rebounding.

I'll copy just the Skal feedback:

9. Toronto Raptors

Skal Labissiere
Kentucky
Freshman
Forward/center

Pelton: Can I trade? I don't love any of the options here from Toronto's standpoint with Chriss and Ellenson off the board. Jakob Poeltl is too similar to Jonas Valanciunas. The Raptors already have two young point guards behind All-Star Kyle Lowry. And I'm not sure any of the best wings available could beat out Norman Powell for playing time.

So I guess I'm going with Labissiere -- if he pans out, he could fit well with Valanciunas. (Big if!)

Ford: Labissiere is a big risk here, but Toronto GM Masai Ujiri is a big risk-taker and the talent makes Labissiere an intriguing fit long term for the Raptors. They need help at power forward, and a stretch 4 seems especially appealing.

On the downside, Ujiri has always been a fan of tough players. There doesn't seem to be much of that in Labissiere, so Ujiri could perhaps go with someone like Domantas Sabonis instead.

Deyonta Davis is a more intriguing overall player then Skal is. I don't want players who you have to question wether or not they'll give you effort.

So you defend Chriss saying he lacks focus, discipline and effort. Then go onto to compare him to Aaron Gordon who's basically a hustle player at this point with FAR superior athleticism to Chriss only because they measure out similarly. And then you say that you don't want Skal because you don't want to question if your selection will give you effort?

[MavCarter]

Korkmaz intrigues me more by the day. He just looks like one of those opposing shooters that terrify you when they get a shot off

[BoyzNTheHood]

Do not want skal. No more mental midgets lol

Every time I look at the guy I see Channing Frye. One of those soft college guys that end up gravitating towards the perimeter. I want someone who can compete.

Channing Frye wishes he had Skal's hook shot in his repertoire, or his shot blocking ability. Channing Frye is basically black Bargnani.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Being foul prone can be attributed to a lack of experience rather than just laziness. See Amir Johnson in the early part of his career. Would you rather have someone who has no capacity for being a good defender based on the physical limitations, no matter the effort?

P.S.: I don't think stating "end of discussion" is conducive to a healthy debate on a message board which is designed for people to share their views.

Do you realize that he didn't rebound because he didn't try? Go watch him play, he just watches the ball come off the glass on occasion. Therefore, it's the end of the discussion. This is a draft thread, not a Marquese Chriss effort thread. People can continue to discuss the draft. Keep things in context, thanks.

The kid is 18 and playing NCAA D1 and is a projected lotto bubble pick with insane athletic ability. He may not pan out and that is the risk. But watching him play, at least offensively, he is a gifted player. I saw similar ability in Ross well before he was our surprise reach pick. Ross is still trying to put it all together and he is 25. Even with Ross I think there is a chance to break out as a late bloomer. We can't be too prescriptive or judgemental about talented kids at 18.

The fact that you compare him to Terrence Ross shows a lot. Terrence is still an enigma for Toronto. Don't let a couple of good games fool you, Terrence hasn't put anything together this late into his career. There are countless reasons to overlook a player like Chriss. Effort being the largest one. People want to use youth to defend Chriss and the fact that he's only been playing for a few years. The fact is, the one thing you can control is your effort. If you don't hustle, lose focus and play without discipline you're never going to be more than your raw talent. I guarantee you that this kid Chriss will make a few highlight plays that makes people on this board go nuts because we didn't pick him, but in the long run it will be for the best. I'll lose if we fight, but I'll be damned if we just get outplayed. Chriss lacks KEY intangibles to be worthy of a top-10 pick. I'm not wasting a top-10 selection on a lazy, unfocused, undisciplined, raw talent.

[Risk101]

Ford and Pelton revised their Insider top 10 today. They have it going:

Simmons
Ingram
Murray
Bender
Hield
Dunn
Chriss
Ellenson
Labissiere << Raps
Poeltl

Interesting they have Brown out of the top 10. I have to agree with both guys about being lukewarm on Skal - really don't like how soft he plays as well as his lack of motor and rebounding.

I'll copy just the Skal feedback:

Deyonta Davis is a more intriguing overall player then Skal is. I don't want players who you have to question wether or not they'll give you effort.

So you defend Chriss saying he lacks focus, discipline and effort. Then go onto to compare him to Aaron Gordon who's basically a hustle player at this point with FAR superior athleticism to Chriss only because they measure out similarly. And then you say that you don't want Skal because you don't want to question if your selection will give you effort?

If you read my posts I said "Think of an Aaron Gordon TYPE" when thinking of Chriss. I never said they have similar games. Both just measure exactly the same and are explosive athletes. I could have been more clear but thats all I was pointing out.

And in terms of Skal I said in my original post, in which I replied to your comment on Chriss, that Deyonta is my favourite currently when it comes to both of those mentioned players. You called Chriss lazy which isn't true. He just lacks discipline and effort at times. I'm not a fan of soft players and Skal has SOFT written all over him.

[Par36]

I'm getting turned off about this draft now. It just doesn't feel good, a GM will really need to do their homework to find gold around 10.

You aren't getting gold at #10. Silver at best. In my view, the draft is 5 players deep, and then there are a bunch of mid to long shots.

Trade up for Murray, or trade down. #9 for #15 and #19.

...you do realize the team is basically full right? Three(or even Two) prospects is already too much.
We already have Bruno/Wright/Babe and you want to add 2-3 rookies?

Team has space to add one more prospect unless your talking several stashes.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Deyonta Davis is a more intriguing overall player then Skal is. I don't want players who you have to question wether or not they'll give you effort.

So you defend Chriss saying he lacks focus, discipline and effort. Then go onto to compare him to Aaron Gordon who's basically a hustle player at this point with FAR superior athleticism to Chriss only because they measure out similarly. And then you say that you don't want Skal because you don't want to question if your selection will give you effort?

If you read my posts I said "Think of an Aaron Gordon TYPE" when thinking of Chriss. I never said they have similar games. Both just measure exactly the same and are explosive athletes. I could have been more clear but thats all I was pointing out.

And in terms of Skal I said in my original post, in which I replied to your comment on Chriss, that Deyonta is my favourite currently when it comes to both of those mentioned players. You called Chriss lazy which isn't true. He just lacks discipline and effort at times. I'm not a fan of soft players and Skal has SOFT written all over him.

Deyonta should be ranked above Chriss as well, but I'll still take Skal over him. Skal isn't soft, this kid has been through more in life than 99% of the others in this draft, if not 100%. I've explained it countless times, Cal jerked him in and out of the starting lineup because he thought Skal was KAT which was a joke. Chriss is lazy, he's undisciplined, and he lacks effort. 3 keys to failure.

[Dalek]

I will give you the hook shot but their stats even look similar:

Arizona stats: Frye 2.3 blocks 7 rebs 31 mins
Kentucky stats: Skal 1.6 blocks 3 rebs in 15 mins

I do like Skal's upside, but he had such a bad year at Kentucky during a down-season talent-wise in college. Kentucky typically churns out the best PFs/Cs in the NBA:

Ant Davis
Cousins
Noel
Towns

Where does Skal fit into it? A better shooting worse shotblocking Noel. I worry because Masai has already made a bad call on Bruno, so I worry he will swing for the wrong fence again. Just find a rotation player or just find a guy we can stash. This draft sucks.

[ciueli]

Ford and Pelton revised their Insider top 10 today. They have it going:

Simmons
Ingram
Murray
Bender
Hield
Dunn
Chriss
Ellenson
Labissiere << Raps
Poeltl

Interesting they have Brown out of the top 10. I have to agree with both guys about being lukewarm on Skal - really don't like how soft he plays as well as his lack of motor and rebounding.

I find it hard to believe a guy like Brown wouldn't go top ten in a weak draft. I have an even harder time seeing him get past us, everyone knows how much Masai likes athletic guys with wingspan.

[CoachJReturns]

If Brown is available Masai needs to take him. He has all the physical tools of a guy like Demar, but better defensive potential. Imagine a guy with elite level athleticism at 19 years old bring developed in a winning team culture. That's how you get a guy like Kawhi.

[MavCarter]

Sabonis is a beast. Idk if him and jv fit together though

[Brinbe]

If we miss out on Chriss or Ellenson by a few picks, I will be f'n mad.

[CoachJReturns]

If we miss out on Chriss and Ellenson I'll be thrilled. Means someone better slid to us.

[Badonkadonk]

The thing that screams out to me about Skal is that he was last dominant pre-Kentucky, when his physical make-up was more unique. You always look to how guys will adapt when the playing field levels a little bit in terms of physicality. He couldn't have his way in college when spaces got tighter and bodies got bigger. It makes me think that too much of what made him special before Kentucky was that he just didn't encounter guys as big, quick and strong as him on a regular basis. I don't think that bodes very well for the next step.

Who knows, maybe he can stand out even in the NBA. It's always hard to tell how a guy stacks up. Look at Powell - you always knew he was a beast physically at UCLA but how much of that was him being a senior? Would his toughness still stand out against NBA players? (turns out yes).

I don't mind taking a swing at a high-potential, boom-or-bust guy (eg. Bruno), but I'm less inclined when they've had an opportunity compete against elevated competition and performed poorly, even by freshman standards.