Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

[GM89]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

[Syd-TK3]

I think if you look at it by ball-handlers and not gaurds we aren't stacked there at all. Really we just have one elite one in Lowry(who’s 34) and a good one in Fred whos also a free agent. Norm doesn’t do much in the way of ball handling or playmaking and TD is a wild card at the moment. Raptors like to play with multiple ballhandlers too (hence starting Fred and kinda of forcing Mccaw into that role)

So if there’s a ballhander our FO deems worth drafting it makes alot of sense to me. Especially since most of them just seem like straight up better prospects than the wings/bigs in this class.

Would also say that not contributing on elite teams as a rookie is the norm and really shouldn’t dissuade us from drafting the best talent possible especially when we have probably the best player development system in the league

I mentioned before that I don't see us drafting a pg at 28 cause it's a deep position in this draft and I'm almost certain we resign Fred so it's not as important. I'd only consider it if one were to drop but it seems unlikely that that happens.
If we weren't keeping fred I'd been down for taking Dotson as a good replacement but currently I just don't see how we manage to fit a small pg in rotation with how small we already play.

Looking at it in the way you mentioned about just simply needing a ball-handler I think that's true and is probably why Bolmaro makes sense

That makes sense. Unless somebody drops a lot, selecting a guard doesn't make too much sense. Our need isn't a guard but wing ball handlers.

Which guards would worth taking over Tillman and/or Reed if they drop? Which guards would be worth taking over the wings that drop (Saddiq Bey, Patrick Williams, McDaniels, Precious Achiuwa)?

I saw people like Kira Lewis and Tyrell Terry. I personally was interested in Theo Maledon since he has solid height (6'4) and a great wingspan (6'8) for defensive versatility. He might be able to defend bigger players which helps if we want to play him beside Fred, Norm, Kyle, TD.

I think something we can take into consideration is that if we select a guard, they will probably be sent to the 905 for most of the first season so we wouldn't need somebody NBA ready from day 1.

Theo is really the only guard with a chance of dropping. I think he would be perfect, idk if I'd prefer getting him over those wings though but I would over tillman/reed. His size would allow great versatility in our lineups while adding the ball handler.
Kira has no chance of dropping to us and if he miraculously did you take him and run with zero doubts about need or size.

[JYD]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

I don't mind him as a safe pick. He can contribute on both ends, and moves well. he's not a shot creator or 3 pt shooter for a big, though there are signs he could develop his 3.

A thing he does that I think is very appealing, is his passing ability, specifically within MS's offense. Their offense and ours shares a lot of qualities in how they run things, he looks like he would plug and play really well into our team there.

Also is very mature for his age with great work ethic.

[Dalek]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

I don't mind him as a safe pick. He can contribute on both ends, and moves well. he's not a shot creator or 3 pt shooter for a big, though there are signs he could develop his 3.

A thing he does that I think is very appealing, is his passing ability, specifically within MS's offense. Their offense and ours shares a lot of qualities in how they run things, he looks like he would plug and play really well into our team there.

Also is very mature for his age with great work ethic.

I get that he is a safe pick, but he is a boring pick. He is a good passer but he is not a dynamic offensive player. His defense is great in college, but I don't think he is quick enough to be an impact defender in the NBA.

I am having the same problem with Isaiah Stewart who I rate a bit higher simply because he is younger. If both these guys were seven feet I would say draft at 28 - no question. But, their size and mobility are question marks that put them at a disadvantage in a league of seven foot athletes.

At least guys like Aleksei Pokusevski, Jalen Smith and Zeke Nnanji are taller, move well dynamically, and can score from outside. If I had to gamble on a big, I would look at those three ahead of Tillman and Stewart. I mean, Masai and Bobby tend to gamble a bit on first rounders. I think they have shown they are not to adverse to waiting on guys like Bruno or OG (had the ACL tear prior to the draft) so Poku has to be interesting.

Aside from the bigs, I still think the value in getting a scorer like Grant Riller, Elijah Hughes, Desmond Banes, and I am even warming up to the dynamism of Isaiah Joe who looks like a bigger Malik Monk.

Of course the forwards are also high on my list: Williams, Achiuwa, and Chris Davis.

[Psubs]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

He's at least Taj Gibson with better passing and potential for a 3 pt shot.

I believe rebounding was a team weakness, so I'm all for going big or getting a forward for that.

[casual_raps_fan]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

Tillman is one of the most popular safe picks around here. Pretty much everything about him from personality, play style, attitude screams Raptors. When taking into consideration that one of the Raptors biggest need is a future center, he just makes too much sense.

My player comparison is poor mans Al Horford or a smaller Marc Gasol.

If Tillman is selected, I would really like to retain Gasol for at least 1 year to mentor him.

[Psubs]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

Tillman is one of the most popular safe picks around here. Pretty much everything about him from personality, play style, attitude screams Raptors. When taking into consideration that one of the Raptors biggest need is a future center, he just makes too much sense.

My player comparison is poor mans Al Horford or a smaller Marc Gasol.

If Tillman is selected, I would really like to retain Gasol for at least 1 year to mentor him.

Gasol is a Raptor for the rest of his career! Maybe bring Pau in for the 2nd half of the season, then Marc can't pass Pau in rings.

If Marc is willing to take the MLE then he can stay as long as he wants. Give him 4 years to play 2 or 3, maybe buyout for $5 million each year not played.

[casual_raps_fan]

I mentioned before that I don't see us drafting a pg at 28 cause it's a deep position in this draft and I'm almost certain we resign Fred so it's not as important. I'd only consider it if one were to drop but it seems unlikely that that happens.
If we weren't keeping fred I'd been down for taking Dotson as a good replacement but currently I just don't see how we manage to fit a small pg in rotation with how small we already play.

Looking at it in the way you mentioned about just simply needing a ball-handler I think that's true and is probably why Bolmaro makes sense

That makes sense. Unless somebody drops a lot, selecting a guard doesn't make too much sense. Our need isn't a guard but wing ball handlers.

Which guards would worth taking over Tillman and/or Reed if they drop? Which guards would be worth taking over the wings that drop (Saddiq Bey, Patrick Williams, McDaniels, Precious Achiuwa)?

I saw people like Kira Lewis and Tyrell Terry. I personally was interested in Theo Maledon since he has solid height (6'4) and a great wingspan (6'8) for defensive versatility. He might be able to defend bigger players which helps if we want to play him beside Fred, Norm, Kyle, TD.

I think something we can take into consideration is that if we select a guard, they will probably be sent to the 905 for most of the first season so we wouldn't need somebody NBA ready from day 1.

Is there even anyone like that at our spot? Do you mean just ball handling or shot creating too?

I see McDaniels, Green, Bolmaro, Elleby, and maybe Scrubb as being those types. Out of those guys Green is the only guy I'm really intrigued by, possibly Elleby too, but the short arms and bad stats are a bit of a hurdle.

If Green isn't there, we might as well just run with McCaw and hope he develops more consistency, since he basically fits what you're describing.

I am fine with that. When Fred or Kyle were out, we managed to come out with a good record. With more experience from Norm, TD, McCaw, Siakam, we should be in ok shape in the ball handling department.

I know McCaw isn't popular around here but I thought he did a decent job holding the fort when Kyle or Fred went down.

[casual_raps_fan]

So what are people's thoughts on Xavier Tillman at 28. His game and body type seems to resemble Draymond Green.

I recall everyone was ecstatic early last season suggesting Pascal was approaching Draymond level impact so having another player that might be able to become the next Draymond would be very nice.

Tillman is one of the most popular safe picks around here. Pretty much everything about him from personality, play style, attitude screams Raptors. When taking into consideration that one of the Raptors biggest need is a future center, he just makes too much sense.

My player comparison is poor mans Al Horford or a smaller Marc Gasol.

If Tillman is selected, I would really like to retain Gasol for at least 1 year to mentor him.

Gasol is a Raptor for the rest of his career! Maybe bring Pau in for the 2nd half of the season, then Marc can't pass Pau in rings.

If Marc is willing to take the MLE then he can stay as long as he wants. Give him 4 years to play 2 or 3, maybe buyout for $5 million each year not played.

Haha! Ya I would love to have him here until retirement as well. He's one of my all time favourite Raptors along with Kyle and Kawhi. Based on what we know about him, I'm expecting him to take the MLE with the Raptors or Grizzlies. I'm sure the Lakers, Cippers, Bucks would be interested in him but he doesn't seem like that type that would go chasing rings.

[JYD]

I get that he is a safe pick, but he is a boring pick. He is a good passer but he is not a dynamic offensive player. His defense is great in college, but I don't think he is quick enough to be an impact defender in the NBA.

.

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

[Dalek]

I get that he is a safe pick, but he is a boring pick. He is a good passer but he is not a dynamic offensive player. His defense is great in college, but I don't think he is quick enough to be an impact defender in the NBA.

.

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

[Psubs]

I get that he is a safe pick, but he is a boring pick. He is a good passer but he is not a dynamic offensive player. His defense is great in college, but I don't think he is quick enough to be an impact defender in the NBA.

.

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

Luka Garza is more like Hansborough with 3pt shooting. Tillman is a good passing bigman, who is good at defense.

To me, the Raptors are going the Spurs route of sustainability. Don't need to hit HR's with late 1st picks, just hit doubles that can help the team and package a few of them for Marc Gasols.

[Ell Curry]

The Nets apparently and logically (stretch big to play 5 out) wanting Ibaka could work nicely for us. If they pay him 15M a year they have to send us at least 12 or whatever. Any of these might be interesting:

1) Levert, but you can't add to a sign and trade right? And he's got too much value unless we throw in a 1st or something I'd think.

2) Jarrett Allen, Temple (option picked up) and Musa gets them to 11M, might not be enough salary for Ibaka though. Or Allen and Waller-Prince and we can just trade away his last year if we need the cap space in 2021, he's at 15M but for one year probably could get off that for a weak first rounder.

3) Dinwiddie + Kurucs is a nice 13M number and we can just deal Dinwiddie or maybe he's the scorer we could use for a fun year before leaving if we need 2021 space. More importantly I like Kurucs' game and he's real cheap for a bit.

4) Joe Harris on a double sign and trade for like 26M/2 with us having a complete option on the 2nd year could be worth it for him to just get a big 1 year payout and we can afford to play him for one season with our defensively tough and athletic perimeter group able to cover him and he's spacing the floor for Siakam and the guards.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I get that he is a safe pick, but he is a boring pick. He is a good passer but he is not a dynamic offensive player. His defense is great in college, but I don't think he is quick enough to be an impact defender in the NBA.

.

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

The major difference between Hansbrough and Tillman is that one was a hustle guy who scrapped for everything, where the other will outsmart you to get his.

[Mark_83]

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

Luka Garza is more like Hansborough with 3pt shooting. Tillman is a good passing bigman, who is good at defense.

To me, the Raptors are going the Spurs route of sustainability. Don't need to hit HR's with late 1st picks, just hit doubles that can help the team and package a few of them for Marc Gasols.

And let's be honest, "safe" doesnt mean low upside. Siakam looked like an energy big and rotation player but not a star. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. He was already old for his class and still very raw.

Norm was a senior, who couldn't shoot, and was right hand dominant. He's looking like a stud now.

If you get a "safe" player who can blossom in your system or culture thats a heck of a lot more valuable than a guy with a ton of upside who just doesnt fit and ends up riding the bench.

Masai has done a great job of finding players with excellent tools, character, and work ethic who are unrefined or raw products. Those types of guys can be developed into very good players.

[casual_raps_fan]

The Nets apparently and logically (stretch big to play 5 out) wanting Ibaka could work nicely for us. If they pay him 15M a year they have to send us at least 12 or whatever. Any of these might be interesting:

1) Levert, but you can't add to a sign and trade right? And he's got too much value unless we throw in a 1st or something I'd think.

2) Jarrett Allen, Temple (option picked up) and Musa gets them to 11M, might not be enough salary for Ibaka though. Or Allen and Waller-Prince and we can just trade away his last year if we need the cap space in 2021, he's at 15M but for one year probably could get off that for a weak first rounder.

3) Dinwiddie + Kurucs is a nice 13M number and we can just deal Dinwiddie or maybe he's the scorer we could use for a fun year before leaving if we need 2021 space. More importantly I like Kurucs' game and he's real cheap for a bit.

4) Joe Harris on a double sign and trade for like 26M/2 with us having a complete option on the 2nd year could be worth it for him to just get a big 1 year payout and we can afford to play him for one season with our defensively tough and athletic perimeter group able to cover him and he's spacing the floor for Siakam and the guards.

I would LOVE to get Jarrett Allen on the Raptors. He's already a good defensive anchor but still has a ton of potential to improve. His defensive style, size/length, mobility honestly kind of reminds me of Tim Duncan (poor mans obviously).

[Psubs]

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

Luka Garza is more like Hansborough with 3pt shooting. Tillman is a good passing bigman, who is good at defense.

To me, the Raptors are going the Spurs route of sustainability. Don't need to hit HR's with late 1st picks, just hit doubles that can help the team and package a few of them for Marc Gasols.

And let's be honest, "safe" doesnt mean low upside. Siakam looked like an energy big and rotation player but not a star. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. He was already old for his class and still very raw.

Norm was a senior, who couldn't shoot, and was right hand dominant. He's looking like a stud now.

If you get a "safe" player who can blossom in your system or culture thats a heck of a lot more valuable than a guy with a ton of upside who just doesnt fit and ends up riding the bench.

Masai has done a great job of finding players with excellent tools, character, and work ethic who are unrefined or raw products. Those types of guys can be developed into very good players.

100% agree.

[Psubs]

I would LOVE to get Jarrett Allen on the Raptors. He's already a good defensive anchor but still has a ton of potential to improve. His defensive style, size/length, mobility honestly kind of reminds me of Tim Duncan (poor mans obviously).

Would rather bid on RFA Jakob Poeltl, than Allen. Poeltl would cost over the MLE but likely less than $15 million per season to pry away from San Antonio. Allen seems like a player that would want max but settle on around $20 million like Capella.

Wait, do we have enough cap space to offer more than the MLE? If not, offer the MLE for 4 years with max raises.

[nabbs]

Blake Murphy Draft Round Up (He profiles 6 guards, 6 wings and 6 bigs that fit the Raps culture and analytics profile):

https://theathletic.com/1835051/2020/05/27/draft-profiles-6-bigs-the-raptors-could-select-with-the-no-28-pick/

Bigs:

Aleksej Pokusevski
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Xavier Tillman
Paul Reed
Zeke Nnaji


https://theathletic.com/1835049/2020/06/09/draft-profiles-6-wings-the-raptors-could-select-with-the-no-28-pick/?article_source=search&search_query=blake%20murphy

Wings:

Josh Green
Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Jaden McDaniels
Tyler Bey
Chris Smith

https://theathletic.com/1834920/2020/05/29/draft-profiles-6-guards-the-raptors-could-select-with-the-no-28-pick/

Guards:

Tre Jones
Tyrell Terry
Nico Mannion
Devon Dotson
Malachi Flynn
Grant Riller

We know the Raps love strong advanced analytics, high defensive upside and good culture guys. It's clear they bet on their development to bring offensive skill sets along. With that in mind, the following fit the aforementioned criteria the most:

Tillman, Reed, Aleksej Pokusevski for the Bigs

Green, Bane, Chris Smith for the Wings

Tre Jones, Tyrell Terry, Nico Mannion for the Guards

[Dalek]

Sometimes boring is good though. We could also wait, maybe because he'd look better in a specific system, he'll drop.

I like the looks of Poku's potential. My favorite guy most likely to be there for us is Bolmaro.

I can live with Bolmaro because he has style, is a gritty defender, and looks like he could play a couple positions in a pinch. This is the first, first rounder for Toronto in a while, and with Tillman you will get a rotation level player. Hopefully I am wrong about him, but I just see a great college guy - kind of like how dominant Tyler Hansbrough was.

I mean, if Toronto was set for the next few years I would be fine with it, but the team is almost at the crossroads:

This is likely Lowry's last highly productive year; FVV is a free agent who might get snapped up; Gasol and Serge will be highly coveted free agents.

To me, the draft is building for the future, or at least getting a high ceiling prospect that some other team might be interested in a package for Bradley Beal. That to me means drafting a unicorn or a potentially potent scorer.

The major difference between Hansbrough and Tillman is that one was a hustle guy who scrapped for everything, where the other will outsmart you to get his.

For sure, I know they are not the same type of player. I am just pointing out that they both had dominant college careers, for Tillman he had one year where he was dominant, and they both come in as a undersized centers. Maybe Tillman has more craft than Hansbrough, but his poor freethrow shooting, outside shooting will be a concern at the next level. The fact he barely gets off the ground on most of his post scoring will be an issue in the NBA.