With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

[pingpongrac]

It's pretty amazing that Barnes only has 5 assists total in the 4 games so far this year, considering he led the team in assists in the preseason. He's just not racking them up for some reason. Small sample size, I guess.

I'm pretty sure he'll consistently average over 5 a game once he hits his prime, though, and possibly comfortably more. For now though, he still needs to learn to read the speed of the NBA game a bit better.

Not worried, he'll get there. It's refreshing to cheer for a guy that you just know is going to become a star. It might take him a couple of years to get there, but it's exciting stuff.

I'd be interested to see the shooting splits on shots from Barnes passes between preseason and regular season. As much as Gillespie was missing easy buckets/fumbling the ball in preseason, it felt like most others were converting more often than not. Maybe it's just me, but it feels like we're missing most of those potential assists from Barnes through 4 games to start the year so far. Playing more minutes with FVV/OG/GTJ also takes the ball out of his hands a bit more.

On the other hand, it's clear he's making more of an effort to score and has been much more efficient shooting the ball. Barnes averaged 9.8 PPG on 9.4 FGA during preseason while he's currently averaging 16.8 PPG on 12.5 FGA. Part of that has to do with playing more, but he has been aggressive with his offence with the exception of last night (in which he went 6/8, but he had those 6 TOV too).

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[vulture]

It's pretty amazing that Barnes only has 5 assists total in the 4 games so far this year, considering he led the team in assists in the preseason. He's just not racking them up for some reason. Small sample size, I guess.

I'm pretty sure he'll consistently average over 5 a game once he hits his prime, though, and possibly comfortably more. For now though, he still needs to learn to read the speed of the NBA game a bit better.

Not worried, he'll get there. It's refreshing to cheer for a guy that you just know is going to become a star. It might take him a couple of years to get there, but it's exciting stuff.

I'd be interested to see the shooting splits on shots from Barnes passes between preseason and regular season. As much as Gillespie was missing easy buckets/fumbling the ball in preseason, it felt like most others were converting more often than not. Maybe it's just me, but it feels like we're missing most of those potential assists from Barnes through 4 games to start the year so far. Playing more minutes with FVV/OG/GTJ also takes the ball out of his hands a bit more.

On the other hand, it's clear he's making more of an effort to score and has been much more efficient shooting the ball. Barnes averaged 9.8 PPG on 9.4 FGA during preseason while he's currently averaging 16.8 PPG on 12.5 FGA. Part of that has to do with playing more, but he has been aggressive with his offence with the exception of last night (in which he went 6/8, but he had those 6 TOV too).

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I wish he would drive more to finish because on this team he is the only who has the physical advantage. Once he starts doing that teams will collapse and that will open up his passing.
The decision making wasn't good last night and I thought he wasn't as disruptive defensively. Obviously this will come with time, but aggression to score is the mindset that needs to change because he is physically imposing.

[Rebel INS]

I almost think that Scottie is such a smart player that he's aware of his range and skillset limitations at this point in his career, and hes not going to force too many shots where it's not a one dribble and go type take or wide open jumper with a sagging defender giving him no respect

Haven't watched all his shot attempts tbh but that was kind of my impression watching him last night at least. I dont know if that's really a lack of assertiveness if hes trying to avoid taking shots from midrange or outside 10 that are inefficient for him at this stage

The good news is that early signs are Nurse and the whole team seem to have him on whatever the opposite of a loose leash is. I cant remember when the last time we had a rookie getting fed this many minutes and encouraged to take chances on offense. Kinda the flip side of having a high iq rookie who you trust to make decisions on the floor

[ATLTimekeeper]

He should know that he can turn the corner on Vucevic every time. I expect year 2 Scottie will be a different animal. He just doesn't know the league.

[HiJiNX]

He should know that he can turn the corner on Vucevic every time. I expect year 2 Scottie will be a different animal. He just doesn't know the league.

Yeah and on that last errant pass when he was driving baseline he could have easily put his shoulder into the defender with a power dribble and rose up for a dunk. It’s going to be interesting when he realizes that his scoring potential is actually higher than his passing potential. Which is saying an awful lot. Small sample size but I have yet to see Barnes not be able to swat his defender away like they aren’t even there. Guys seem to just bounce off him. Physicality doesn’t bump him off his square on drives, in fact it’s the opposite happening. He’s smart though and will figure it out and once he does…wow.

[Rebel INS]

He should know that he can turn the corner on Vucevic every time. I expect year 2 Scottie will be a different animal. He just doesn't know the league.

I think even over the course of the season we're going to see him grow as a scorer, once he gets a feel for what he can do in space

Even without making major progress with his shooting consistency, there are a lot of at the rim buckets for the taking out there just off his length athleticism and touch

One of the 'counter intuitive' advanced stats out there during draft lead up was Scottie having one of the highest rates of self created shots at the rim (despite being a '0 level scorer'). People dismissed this as 'bully ball' against inferior college athletes, ignoring the fact that with a 9'0 standing reach he will still have a length advantage to get shots up over NBA wings, plus he has the ball skills to turn the corner on the bigs who have the length to contest the shot.

I think as the season progresses, were gonna see more and more proof of concept that the self created fg rate in college for him was something people should've put more stock in

On that note, I didn't know who this Dean on Draft guy was before this offseason, but shoutouts to him for what seemed like an 'out there' predraft take on Scottie's scoring

https://deanondraft.com/2021/06/15/how-good-is-scottie-barnes/

How Does Scottie Fit In?

Barnes tops the list in assists and length, tied for 3rd in steals, and tied for 2nd in height is a scary intersection of traits. He often defended opposing guards for FSU, and has excellent potential defensively with the ability to switch 1-4.

Offensively, Barnes is perceived to be a limited creator, but he is arguably the 2nd best self-creator on this list outside of Luka. If we use hoop-math’s play by play data to measure self created FG’s at the rim in the halfcourt by removing assisted FG’s and putbacks, he leads this sample on a per 40 minute basis:

Player Mins SC FG per 40
Scottie 595 23 1.55
Cade 956 33 1.38
Simmons 1151 33 1.15
Draymond 1228 28 0.91
K Anderson 1046 17 0.65
Middleton 575 5 0.35

Note this only goes back to 11-12, which counts Middleton’s injury plagued junior year over his quality sophomore season, and Draymond’s senior year when he was 2+ years older than the rest of the group. And nobody else on this list outside of Luka was a particularly good creator at a young age, so this is another area where Scottie beats out the majority of a talented and successful group.

In summary: Scottie is taller, longer, better at passing, defending the perimeter, and rim self creation than the majority of a list littered with all-stars and quality role players and few busts. That’s a whole lot of goodness for a player projected outside of the top 5.

[Madhouse]

He should know that he can turn the corner on Vucevic every time. I expect year 2 Scottie will be a different animal. He just doesn't know the league.

Basically. Let him figure it out and play a lot. That's really what will help us the most for next year and the years after.

[Madhouse]

Given that SB self proclaims he's a PG and he got a lot of PG run time in preseason, is that his eventual position?

He's got the vision but I still think he lacks the ball handling skills and elite passing to play PG full time.. I don't know if it's false hope on his end to try to become a PG when his best skillset is a wing/big tweener a la Giannis.

The issue really is that Barnes had not played PG before last year and it was a covid year and even in that year he didn't bring the ball up consistently and played more like this year so far. So basically there is little to no experience of actually playing PG

[Madhouse]

This dude should easily be averaging at least 4apg.
Seen way too many wide open shots missed on potential assists by Barnes.

according to nba.com Barnes has the worst assists to potential assists ratio in the NBA.

1.3 to 5.0.

And nobody is worse than a 1:3 ratio.

[LoveMyRaps]

This dude should easily be averaging at least 4apg.
Seen way too many wide open shots missed on potential assists by Barnes.

according to nba.com Barnes has the worst assists to potential assists ratio in the NBA.

1.3 to 5.0.

And nobody is worse than a 1:3 ratio.

Wow. That's just ridiculous. It's all wide open shots his teammates are missing too. Like come on...

[Raps in 4]

This dude should easily be averaging at least 4apg.
Seen way too many wide open shots missed on potential assists by Barnes.

according to nba.com Barnes has the worst assists to potential assists ratio in the NBA.

1.3 to 5.0.

And nobody is worse than a 1:3 ratio.

I'm sure this will correct itself somewhat over a full season. This team can't shoot for ****, but they won't keep bricking every open shot all year.

On a side note, I love this stat. I had no idea anyone tracked it.

[nikster]

This dude should easily be averaging at least 4apg.
Seen way too many wide open shots missed on potential assists by Barnes.

according to nba.com Barnes has the worst assists to potential assists ratio in the NBA.

1.3 to 5.0.

And nobody is worse than a 1:3 ratio.

I'm sure this will correct itself somewhat over a full season. This team can't shoot for ****, but they won't keep bricking every open shot all year.

On a side note, I love this stat. I had no idea anyone tracked it.

Nba.com has the data, its under tracking stats then passing. Can sort by team. OG for example has 2.3 assists per game out of 4.3 potential assist. Also tracks passes made and received per game (Scottie is 2nd on the team with 43 passes per game)

[Prestige]

Masai, Bobby and the team never fail to make us fans look stupid. Great job by them. Looking forward to seeing what they do with this team going forward.

[Bruin]

This thread belongs in a museum lol

[hype_2004]

These losers need to bow down to Masai or bend over and take it!

[Reeko]

Thank You Bobby Webster.

[Reeko]

Watch on YouTube

[IRS]

To anybody getting upset while reading some of the comments on realGM, or reddit, or anywhere else, think back to this thread. Time and time again people online have spouted nonsense, only to be proven wrong and yet their confidence in their opinions never wavers. They ridicule Masai/Bobby, then turn around and pretend to have been fans of the move all along. These people are not to be taken seriously.

[Madhouse]

This is a legendary thread

[TorontoRapsFan]

if he gets 20mpg he'll average 10ppg. couple free throws, a drive/cut and a couple transition baskets wont be hard for him to get.

10 pts in 20 mpg off the bench is like elite bench scoring in the nba.. lol

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True. I personally feel he'll get 25 mpg and might even become 6th man role (If his defence is as good as it's advertised and he can pass the ball the way he did in college). Kind of why 10ppg was in my head.

To toot my own horn... He got 10 minutes more and 5ppg more