Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[Nature]

The way I see it is the core for the next ~5 years: CMB, Scottie, RJ, Ingram

Bench: Mamu (if we can retain him), Shead

Need: dynamic PG, 3+D center, 6th man wing scorer

Ja’Kobe could potentially be a 10th man. IQ and healthy Poeltl can be stop gaps, but we still need a 6th man in that case (maybe if Lawson breaks out somehow). If Poeltl comes back, we should consider bringing him off the bench and limiting his minutes to preserve his health. In bad match ups, use an early sub.

I don't mean to be a debbie downer... but that core is depressing as ****.

What would be an exciting core in your mind? Just blow up? Uprising of the TWO?

I admittedly don't have a solution. I only present a sober opinion of our core.

To answer your first question, I love Scottie. I think he can be the 2nd/3d best player (not scorer) on a championship team.

What would make this core more exciting is if we had a young-ish player that showed signs of being able to take game over with their scoring. I'm well aware that every team in the league wants this - but it's the answer to your question. Side note, CMB's great and I think he's going to have a great career but I find him redundant with Scottie.

[WWSRD]

You could be right, but I sure hope you are wrong.

Letting RJ go & trying to move forward wifh Scottie/ BI/ CMB as your "core" players would be a disaster.

I am pretty sure BI would be out after the contract ends & Scottie would.probably force his way out before the end of his contract.

That's not really building with any kind of core. That's just a slow painful death of the current core.

Pretty sure RJ stays Quick goes.

I agree with this.

And CMB is absolutely core. The foundation of Scottie CMB defense is what we should be building around

We all may be arguing over semantics.......I am not sure. The definition of core.

WWSRD was suggesting that we move forward with Scottie/ BI/ CMB & building around them. In my mind that means RJ & Quick are out. How do you replace that scoriing?

I mean........OKC's three core players are SGA, Chet & Williams. Boston's are Tatum, Brown & White. One could argue that Draymond was part of the GS core, but he was playing with one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game & one of the best 3+D players in the history of the game. Scottie and BI aren't that.

Typically, it means your top 3 offensive threats. There is nothing about CMB's game at this point that suggests that he can be a top three scorer anytime soon.......if ever. I hope gets there.

Siakam wasn't considered a top 3 player or "core" player until he proved that he could be that guy.

I get what you're saying, BUT, there are 2 sides to basketball. IF CMB can be what I think is (Horford/Draymond hybrid), you have a defensive pillar and a connective piece on offense. Where you are suddenly getting a surprising amount of offence from you center.
Throw in Scottie Barnes.....all NBA defense 1st team level guy....another huge connective piece on offens,.and the back-end of your defense is STACKED with some great passing big men.

That's easy to build around. That's a good starting point.

Add in Ingra, as a the 1-on-1, you can't guard me, shoot over you option.....and things start to look pretty good. The fact CMB is on a rookie deal makes it a core you can build around because you still have money left -over.

RJ and IQ make 60 million/year. Poetl makes another 20million/year.

Let's say Bobby pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to re-distribute that money to 2 starting guards and a bench piece (not realistic, I know):
$30 million/year PG
$30 million/year SG
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

$20million/year Sixth man

That would be a championship team.

[stanch sabonis]

Pretty sure RJ stays Quick goes.

I agree with this.

And CMB is absolutely core. The foundation of Scottie CMB defense is what we should be building around

We all may be arguing over semantics.......I am not sure. The definition of core.

WWSRD was suggesting that we move forward with Scottie/ BI/ CMB & building around them. In my mind that means RJ & Quick are out. How do you replace that scoriing?

I mean........OKC's three core players are SGA, Chet & Williams. Boston's are Tatum, Brown & White. One could argue that Draymond was part of the GS core, but he was playing with one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game & one of the best 3+D players in the history of the game. Scottie and BI aren't that.

Typically, it means your top 3 offensive threats. There is nothing about CMB's game at this point that suggests that he can be a top three scorer anytime soon.......if ever. I hope gets there.

Siakam wasn't considered a top 3 player or "core" player until he proved that he could be that guy.

I get what you're saying, BUT, there are 2 sides to basketball. IF CMB can be what I think is (Horford/Draymond hybrid), you have a defensive pillar and a connective piece on offense. Where you are suddenly getting a surprising amount of offence from you center.
Throw in Scottie Barnes.....all NBA defense 1st team level guy....another huge connective piece on offens,.and the back-end of your defense is STACKED with some great passing big men.

That's easy to build around. That's a good starting point.

Add in Ingra, as a the 1-on-1, you can't guard me, shoot over you option.....and things start to look pretty good. The fact CMB is on a rookie deal makes it a core you can build around because you still have money left -over.

RJ and IQ make 60 million/year. Poetl makes another 20million/year.

Let's say Bobby pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to re-distribute that money to 2 starting guards and a bench piece (not realistic, I know):
$30 million/year PG
$30 million/year SG
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

$20million/year Sixth man

That would be a championship team.

Unless CMB turns into an all-nba player in his rookie contract I don't see how you could say this is anywhere near a championship roster lol

[WWSRD]

I agree with this.



We all may be arguing over semantics.......I am not sure. The definition of core.

WWSRD was suggesting that we move forward with Scottie/ BI/ CMB & building around them. In my mind that means RJ & Quick are out. How do you replace that scoriing?

I mean........OKC's three core players are SGA, Chet & Williams. Boston's are Tatum, Brown & White. One could argue that Draymond was part of the GS core, but he was playing with one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game & one of the best 3+D players in the history of the game. Scottie and BI aren't that.

Typically, it means your top 3 offensive threats. There is nothing about CMB's game at this point that suggests that he can be a top three scorer anytime soon.......if ever. I hope gets there.

Siakam wasn't considered a top 3 player or "core" player until he proved that he could be that guy.

I get what you're saying, BUT, there are 2 sides to basketball. IF CMB can be what I think is (Horford/Draymond hybrid), you have a defensive pillar and a connective piece on offense. Where you are suddenly getting a surprising amount of offence from you center.
Throw in Scottie Barnes.....all NBA defense 1st team level guy....another huge connective piece on offens,.and the back-end of your defense is STACKED with some great passing big men.

That's easy to build around. That's a good starting point.

Add in Ingra, as a the 1-on-1, you can't guard me, shoot over you option.....and things start to look pretty good. The fact CMB is on a rookie deal makes it a core you can build around because you still have money left -over.

RJ and IQ make 60 million/year. Poetl makes another 20million/year.

Let's say Bobby pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to re-distribute that money to 2 starting guards and a bench piece (not realistic, I know):
$30 million/year PG
$30 million/year SG
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

$20million/year Sixth man

That would be a championship team.

Unless CMB turns into an all-nba player in his rookie contract I don't see how you could say this is anywhere near a championship roster lol

ok.....make it to the Finals roster......

Derrick White
Trey Murphy
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

Malik Monk off the bench.

That team can definitely win the east and can push any team.

[MEDIC]

I don’t think we have any solid core yet to even speak about the next 5 years.

I could easily see RJ and BI being gone in the next 3 years. Things are fluid, nothing concrete yet.

Could be. But until then they are part of the core.

If it ends up a failed experiment, they are gone.........or if BI leaves in FA, the core no longer exists.

Everyone knew that when they tradeed for BI & extended him, there was a short window to see if this "core" could work.

Until the end of BI's contract, it's winning time. Thats the goal anyhow.

[Indeed]

I don’t think we have any solid core yet to even speak about the next 5 years.

I could easily see RJ and BI being gone in the next 3 years. Things are fluid, nothing concrete yet.

Could be. But until then they are part of the core.

If it ends up a failed experiment, they are gone.........or if BI leaves in FA, the core no longer exists.

Everyone knew that when they tradeed for BI & extended him, there was a short window to see if this "core" could work.

Until the end of BI's contract, it's winning time. Thats the goal anyhow.

The core before the start of the season was Quickley instead of Barrett. It means the core did not work.

Meaning by now, we probably know we need Ingram and Barrett for their offense.

[MEDIC]

Pretty sure RJ stays Quick goes.

I agree with this.

And CMB is absolutely core. The foundation of Scottie CMB defense is what we should be building around

We all may be arguing over semantics.......I am not sure. The definition of core.

WWSRD was suggesting that we move forward with Scottie/ BI/ CMB & building around them. In my mind that means RJ & Quick are out. How do you replace that scoriing?

I mean........OKC's three core players are SGA, Chet & Williams. Boston's are Tatum, Brown & White. One could argue that Draymond was part of the GS core, but he was playing with one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game & one of the best 3+D players in the history of the game. Scottie and BI aren't that.

Typically, it means your top 3 offensive threats. There is nothing about CMB's game at this point that suggests that he can be a top three scorer anytime soon.......if ever. I hope gets there.

Siakam wasn't considered a top 3 player or "core" player until he proved that he could be that guy.

I get what you're saying, BUT, there are 2 sides to basketball. IF CMB can be what I think is (Horford/Draymond hybrid), you have a defensive pillar and a connective piece on offense. Where you are suddenly getting a surprising amount of offence from you center.
Throw in Scottie Barnes.....all NBA defense 1st team level guy....another huge connective piece on offens,.and the back-end of your defense is STACKED with some great passing big men.

That's easy to build around. That's a good starting point.

Add in Ingra, as a the 1-on-1, you can't guard me, shoot over you option.....and things start to look pretty good. The fact CMB is on a rookie deal makes it a core you can build around because you still have money left -over.

RJ and IQ make 60 million/year. Poetl makes another 20million/year.

Let's say Bobby pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to re-distribute that money to 2 starting guards and a bench piece (not realistic, I know):
$30 million/year PG
$30 million/year SG
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

$20million/year Sixth man

That would be a championship team.

I do think the money needs to be distributed differently. That's why I have been advocating to move off the IQ contract since last season. The team has too many holes & IQ isn't great value. If Yak can't get back to sustained health, then we have to move off that contract as well.

I do believe a healthy Yak, Scottie, CMB, BI, & RJ make a compelling group to build around. Add an improving Shead & Jakobe.......and we will see how Martin progresses.

Add an inexpensive 3+D PG & Wing off the bench & a dirt cheap O-Rob type big

[MEDIC]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

[HumbleRen]

I don’t think we have any solid core yet to even speak about the next 5 years.

I could easily see RJ and BI being gone in the next 3 years. Things are fluid, nothing concrete yet.

Could be. But until then they are part of the core.

If it ends up a failed experiment, they are gone.........or if BI leaves in FA, the core no longer exists.

Everyone knew that when they tradeed for BI & extended him, there was a short window to see if this "core" could work.

Until the end of BI's contract, it's winning time. Thats the goal anyhow.

The core before the start of the season was Quickley instead of Barrett. It means the core did not work.

Meaning by now, we probably know we need Ingram and Barrett for their offense.

That’s why I say we don’t fully have one yet.

The FO has made 0 indication that they even see RJ as a core piece even right now. They haven’t entertained any extension talks, we know they’re constantly trying to trade him.

Poeltl, IQ and Gradey were core pieces a year ago, not anymore. Things are fluid like I said.

[Dexjackson]

I get what you're saying, BUT, there are 2 sides to basketball. IF CMB can be what I think is (Horford/Draymond hybrid), you have a defensive pillar and a connective piece on offense. Where you are suddenly getting a surprising amount of offence from you center.
Throw in Scottie Barnes.....all NBA defense 1st team level guy....another huge connective piece on offens,.and the back-end of your defense is STACKED with some great passing big men.

That's easy to build around. That's a good starting point.

Add in Ingra, as a the 1-on-1, you can't guard me, shoot over you option.....and things start to look pretty good. The fact CMB is on a rookie deal makes it a core you can build around because you still have money left -over.

RJ and IQ make 60 million/year. Poetl makes another 20million/year.

Let's say Bobby pulls a rabbit out of his hat and is able to re-distribute that money to 2 starting guards and a bench piece (not realistic, I know):
$30 million/year PG
$30 million/year SG
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

$20million/year Sixth man

That would be a championship team.

Unless CMB turns into an all-nba player in his rookie contract I don't see how you could say this is anywhere near a championship roster lol

ok.....make it to the Finals roster......

Derrick White
Trey Murphy
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

Malik Monk off the bench.

That team can definitely win the east and can push any team.

Ok but what are you trading to get White (off a rival team), Murphy, and Monk. Poetl has negative value, IQ likely as well. RJ is the only one who might have a bit of value. Are you ok trading a bunch of 1st to get off of Poetl, IQ, and RJ for these guys?

[Indeed]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

[Indeed]

Could be. But until then they are part of the core.

If it ends up a failed experiment, they are gone.........or if BI leaves in FA, the core no longer exists.

Everyone knew that when they tradeed for BI & extended him, there was a short window to see if this "core" could work.

Until the end of BI's contract, it's winning time. Thats the goal anyhow.

The core before the start of the season was Quickley instead of Barrett. It means the core did not work.

Meaning by now, we probably know we need Ingram and Barrett for their offense.

That’s why I say we don’t fully have one yet.

The FO has made 0 indication that they even see RJ as a core piece even right now. They haven’t entertained any extension talks, we know they’re constantly trying to trade him.

Poeltl, IQ and Gradey were core pieces a year ago, not anymore. Things are fluid like I said.

Yes, maybe we can aquire Morant and we dont need Barrett and Quickley.

However, I feel FO does not know how to build a team, but building a financial report. I am not confident in the current FO who does not agree to trade for Ingram and extend Barrett, as you can hardly find better scorer in the market. Our record would be like last year without Ingram and easy schedule. Maybe we shall see the upcoming road trip.

[MEDIC]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

If CMB starts showing allstar type potential, maybe they trade Scottie for a big haul before the end of his contract. Thiese things aren't even close to being in the realm of possibility at this point though.

Gotta stay in the moment & just enjoy the actual game that is in front of us.

[HumbleRen]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

If CMB starts showing allstar type potential, maybe they trade Scottie for a big haul before the end of his contract. Thiese things aren't even close to being in the realm of possibility at this point though.

Gotta stay in the moment & just enjoy the actual game that is in front of us.

Agreed. CMB is a long way from those talks, probably won’t ever be an all star but what we do know is CMB is one of the best defensive players in the league and he’s only 20.

We got a good one.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Big game incoming from CMB tonight! I used my Toronto Raptors mug for my tea for my breakfast this morning!

#TEAM POSITIVEPOLLY! ALL ABOARD! CHOO! CHOO! ! ! !

[WWSRD]

Unless CMB turns into an all-nba player in his rookie contract I don't see how you could say this is anywhere near a championship roster lol

ok.....make it to the Finals roster......

Derrick White
Trey Murphy
Ingram
Barnes
CMB

Malik Monk off the bench.

That team can definitely win the east and can push any team.

Ok but what are you trading to get White (off a rival team), Murphy, and Monk. Poetl has negative value, IQ likely as well. RJ is the only one who might have a bit of value. Are you ok trading a bunch of 1st to get off of Poetl, IQ, and RJ for these guys?

You're right. Bobby can't put together that team with the assets he has now.

I'm just trying to show a lineup, that overall gets paid the same as our current team, that would be a legit contender (IMO and pending CMB's development).

My point being, you can build a great team around Ingram - Barnes - CMB.
Because CMB is getting paid rookie scale and can soak up 35mins/night at C/PF, it makes it possible to pay high level guards market value. Beyond that, Ingram/Barnes/CMB is an elite forward/center lineup IMO.

[Indeed]

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

If CMB starts showing allstar type potential, maybe they trade Scottie for a big haul before the end of his contract. Thiese things aren't even close to being in the realm of possibility at this point though.

Gotta stay in the moment & just enjoy the actual game that is in front of us.

Agreed. CMB is a long way from those talks, probably won’t ever be an all star but what we do know is CMB is one of the best defensive players in the league and he’s only 20.

We got a good one.

Indeed, too early right now. Our success in drafting Siakam is really an exception, cant really expect this trend to continue. We can draft better to have a stacked team insstead (and not overpay them crazily).

My hope is he develops a 3, so at least he can play on the perimeter, and allow us to space the floor for a C.

[WWSRD]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

What if he just is the starting center? Which would be really practical given that the starting center has chronic back issues now.

[Indeed]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

What if he just is the starting center? Which would be really practical given that the starting center has chronic back issues now.

Because we read a lot of scouting reports before the draft and watched the full game to believe he can be transitioned to the NBA at another position. Looked at his shooting mechanicism , ball handling, etc.

Of course, it can go wrong like I was with Barnes that he might has the quickness, but clearly failed to get by his defender in the NBA and he is lazy in adding any moves to his game, which limited him not being a creator. But there are those obvious ones like Flynn and Dick (Flynn was a really late pick, so it doesnt matter, I guess).

[S.W.A.N]

I think we need to see a Siakam or Randle type offensive trajectory from CMB in order for him to be seen as a contending type core player.

Pretty much, and he is closer to a SF than PF, so shooting and mid range game would be even more important.

You can say the same for Barnes as well, since I think CMB has the potential to reach the defensive level or even better than Barnes. Just that Barnes has a better passing game.

After all, I think we will choose between Barnes and CMB, who ever has their shooting

Or we keep 2 of the best defenders in the NBA together and build a roster around them.

With those two as the long term core of the defense we can build a team that is top 3 in defense without having to sacrifice offense. Pair them with a quality stretch big (a better defending Mamu type player) and you have your front court solved.

We know with Scottie and CMB you are going to need shooting and someone who gets paint penetration.
Right now the combo of BI and RJ work very well at complementing Scottie and CMB.

The problem is that when RJ is out, we don't have another guy who gets into the paint.
The other more obvious problem is we don't have proper big man depth.

But those are just roster redistribution issues, nothing a trade or two around the margins can't solve.
The question is if Scottie and CMB truly are the core who is the real 3rd core piece.

I don't think that guy is on the roster yet.

I think BI and RJ fit very well, but Quickley and Yak are OK fits.
Moving whatever pieces needed to get that 3rd guy (Either a highly talented stretch big who doesn't suck on defense) is option A
Option B is just keep improving the roster construction around Barnes and CMB with pieces that fit them.

Either way we want to keep Scottie and CMB together. Build the team around elite defense and smart passing big wings.