The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[Son Goku 25]

Would love to get a 2nd pick in first and pick up Davion Mitchell

[Psubs]

If Sengun learns how to shoot I'd like him too

100%...he is young and has good FT percent + his form isnt horrible so i could see him developing it

Kanter shoots around 78% FTs. Kanter is 6'10. If Sengun can still grow to 6'10 still I guess he can be an okay option as a C.

Would only consider if trading down and it's with the worser of 1st picks in return.

Would rather gamble with Kai Jones.

[raptor jesus]

I don't think there's any question that Mobley will be an impact guy at the next level. The question is imo: in what role? Does he project to be a rare primary-usage big man a la Embiid and Jokic? Or is his ceiling capped at being more of a high level complimentary piece?

[raptor jesus]

Would love to get a 2nd pick in first and pick up Davion Mitchell

It must be done. From his Wiki page:

During his redshirt year, he improved his all-around game and studied film on guards like Kyle Lowry and Jalen Brunson.

[HeadtopChunes]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

[Lord_Zedd]

In every championship team, there's always a big who is either a major defensive presence, and/or knows how to run an offense.

Gasol, Draymond, Love, Davis etc.

My preference is Cade, but I'm more than fine in taking Mobley as well - even if it's the #1 pick.

[Indeed]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

Guards (quickness) < Wings (balance) < Bigs (size) < Guards (quickness)
It used to be a Guards league because there are less capable Wings, but recent years with skillful Wings who are capable of defending Guards due to enough quickness while being bigger, and the league shifted to Wings league. But I am not surprised once there are more skill Wings, Bigs with skills will be more important again. The question is, will there be enough skilled Wings and Bigs.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think Mobley has a higher chance of being Towns than Embiid Davis Duncan and that’s in 5-7 years. I never said any of the rookies would lead us to contention next year.

Also to be clear I’d only draft Cade over Mobley and maybe Green if I had access to workouts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's fine, but it's also a good example of my point. Towns is without question the best pick and asset through his first two contracts in what was considered a pretty decent draft. It's almost a lock that the top 5 won't pan out the way people get excited about them now, so for me the game is in trying to determine which players have the best composition to make it and which don't.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

You used to not be able to win a title with your PG as your best player, and then Curry ended that. Following trends would just be wrong-headed.

[Bruin]

Would love to get a 2nd pick in first and pick up Davion Mitchell

Yeah I’m high on very high on him. Love his defense. He’s my favorite out of the top 10 or so guys

Hopefully Flynn shows something during this stretch if Fred is out so raise his trade value to maybe package him with a 2nd and grab Mitchell

[720]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

Big men are intrinsically more risky (injuries, longer to develop, etc). We're likely not gonna have a chance at another top 5 pick for years to come. So that's why I'm more gun-ho on getting the sure thing.

Jokic doesn't beat the Jazz if Murray doesn't go for 50. They don't beat the Clippers either without Murray going off again. I'm not saying Murray is BETTER than Jokic. Heck no. But you are limited in your potential if your superstar is a big rather than a guard/small forward.

Elite forwards/guards are a necessary. Elite bigmen? Nice to have but aren't necessary to winning a championship.

It comes down to which guy will have more of an upside and less risk. The guy that's a 6 foot 8 point guard that can score from anywhere on the court and isn't horrible on defense or the stretch big that can also block shots? I'd rather go for the sure thing.

[TorontoRapsFan]

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

Jokic doesn't beat the Jazz if Murray doesn't go for 50. They don't beat the Clippers either without Murray going off again. I'm not saying Murray is BETTER than Jokic. Heck no. But you are limited in your potential if your superstar is a big rather than a guard/small forward.

Elite forwards/guards are a necessary. Elite bigmen? Nice to have but aren't necessary to winning a championship.

It comes down to which guy will have more of an upside and less risk. The guy that's a 6 foot 8 point guard that can score from anywhere on the court and isn't horrible of defense or the stretch big that can also block shots? I'd rather go for the sure thing.

And what exactly do you base all this on? One thing is becoming obvious right now. Good bigs with size and inside out game are starting to feast on the league due to lack of size and strength inside. Everyone talks about problem of bigs on D and failing on P&R defence, but no one says what's the big deal if he goes the other side and gets an easy basket. And while shooting range matters to the modern game, I think people are forgetting the modern game went from barely 2 starters having 3 point range to 4 on average. The game is still open with one big who works the lanes.

[Psubs]

Let's pray that Queta falls to us in the 2nd round.

Paul Reed almost did being picked at #58.

[Steelo Green]

NBA Title Winners and FMVPS:

Lebron
Kawhi
KD
KD
Lebron
Igoudala (Should have been Steph)
Lebron
Lebron
Dirk
Kobe Bryant (RIP)
Kobe Bryant (RIP)
Paul Pierce

I could keep going but basically since Duncan/Shaq/Dirk it has been guard/wing driven for the last fifteen years. Are bigs essential? Of course.

Are guards/swingman now the most important piece for the most part? Yes. It is just how the game is played now shooting is just that much more important in todays game along with ability to take that first step and finish at the basket.

If you consider KD a big man, I guess, but he plays more like a wing.

[720]

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

Jokic doesn't beat the Jazz if Murray doesn't go for 50. They don't beat the Clippers either without Murray going off again. I'm not saying Murray is BETTER than Jokic. Heck no. But you are limited in your potential if your superstar is a big rather than a guard/small forward.

Elite forwards/guards are a necessary. Elite bigmen? Nice to have but aren't necessary to winning a championship.

It comes down to which guy will have more of an upside and less risk. The guy that's a 6 foot 8 point guard that can score from anywhere on the court and isn't horrible of defense or the stretch big that can also block shots? I'd rather go for the sure thing.

And what exactly do you base all this on? One thing is becoming obvious right now. Good bigs with size and inside out game are starting to feast on the league due to lack of size and strength inside. Everyone talks about problem of bigs on D and failing on P&R defence, but no one says what's the big deal if he goes the other side and gets an easy basket. And while shooting range matters to the modern game, I think people are forgetting the modern game went from barely 2 starters having 3 point range to 4 on average. The game is still open with one big who works the lanes.

Just based off of recent champions. Let's look back at the best players of the past few, Lebron, Kawhi, KD, KD, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi/Duncan, Lebron, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce. Aside from Dirk and Duncan everyone else is a guard/forward.

Is has come to the point where you basically NEED an elite guard/forward if you have any dreams of winning it all. Like you said, the game keeps expanding further and further away from the basket. Giving us more of a reason to get guys that can potentially be part of the elite guards/forwards list. Mobley is good, and I wouldn't complain if we got him. But Cade, Kuminga, Green, and Suggs are just more enticing to me especially when you consider our two best young players (Siakam and OG) can and are playing center and forward positions when we go small.

[Indeed]

Would love to get a 2nd pick in first and pick up Davion Mitchell

Yeah I’m high on very high on him. Love his defense. He’s my favorite out of the top 10 or so guys

Hopefully Flynn shows something during this stretch if Fred is out so raise his trade value to maybe package him with a 2nd and grab Mitchell

VanVleet will get us more, but still we may not have enough offense. We probably need VanVleet and Mitchell at the very least for scoring.

Trent does not strike me as the starting SG, and Flynn does not impact our win, so I am very uncertain with our current pieces.

[youngRAPZ]

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

the "what was AD winning?" thing is a pretty bad argument or so is most of this because it ignores the fact this is a 5v5 sport lol

Like what was Kobe winning after Shaq and before Pau? What did Wade accomplish between 2006-2010? What did MJ win before Scottie? etc etc. Does this mean they weren't good players? No, it means winning in this league is really hard. You need a bunch of great players to win titles this isn't news, and winning a championship is also such a flawed way to measure this because you are counting out 29 teams every year.

Just look at the last 2 years, Jokic and the Nuggets embarrassed an elite wing duo last year, Bam's defense was the lynchpin to a cinderella finals team. Embiid almost won the series against us based on his defense alone. etc

That's not to perimeter skills don't matter because all the elite bigs of today need to have them (and so does Mobley). But to pass on a supremely talented player based on a 5-year-old GSW narrative is pretty dumb.

Cade > Mobley is fine because Cade is just better than Mobley, he has the guard skills and the defensive acumen, and the size.

Green > Mobley is ridiculous because Green's guard skills are very overrated (watch him dribble in tight space) or make a not basic pass.

Big men are intrinsically more risky (injuries, longer to develop, etc). We're likely not gonna have a chance at another top 5 pick for years to come. So that's why I'm more gun-ho on getting the sure thing.

Jokic doesn't beat the Jazz if Murray doesn't go for 50. They don't beat the Clippers either without Murray going off again. I'm not saying Murray is BETTER than Jokic. Heck no. But you are limited in your potential if your superstar is a big rather than a guard/small forward.

Elite forwards/guards are a necessary. Elite bigmen? Nice to have but aren't necessary to winning a championship.

It comes down to which guy will have more of an upside and less risk. The guy that's a 6 foot 8 point guard that can score from anywhere on the court and isn't horrible on defense or the stretch big that can also block shots? I'd rather go for the sure thing.

Exactly my point. I love Mobley as a prospect but to me Cade/Suggs and from what I seen of Green we shouldn’t pass on for an elite big. I think if we sign Holmes for 4yrs he makes way more impact than Mobley over his rookie contract. So If we luck out and get number 1 2 or 3 then I’d rather have Holmes / ( Cade/Suggs/Green) if we draft Mobley there is no potential number one option in free agency not even a number 2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TorontoRapsFan]

Jokic doesn't beat the Jazz if Murray doesn't go for 50. They don't beat the Clippers either without Murray going off again. I'm not saying Murray is BETTER than Jokic. Heck no. But you are limited in your potential if your superstar is a big rather than a guard/small forward.

Elite forwards/guards are a necessary. Elite bigmen? Nice to have but aren't necessary to winning a championship.

It comes down to which guy will have more of an upside and less risk. The guy that's a 6 foot 8 point guard that can score from anywhere on the court and isn't horrible of defense or the stretch big that can also block shots? I'd rather go for the sure thing.

And what exactly do you base all this on? One thing is becoming obvious right now. Good bigs with size and inside out game are starting to feast on the league due to lack of size and strength inside. Everyone talks about problem of bigs on D and failing on P&R defence, but no one says what's the big deal if he goes the other side and gets an easy basket. And while shooting range matters to the modern game, I think people are forgetting the modern game went from barely 2 starters having 3 point range to 4 on average. The game is still open with one big who works the lanes.

Just based off of recent champions. Let's look back at the best players of the past few, Lebron, Kawhi, KD, KD, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi/Duncan, Lebron, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce. Aside from Dirk and Duncan everyone else is a guard/forward.

Is has come to the point where you basically NEED an elite guard/forward if you have any dreams of winning it all. Like you said, the game keeps expanding further and further away from the basket. Giving us more of a reason to get guys that can potentially be part of the elite guards/forwards list. Mobley is good, and I wouldn't complain if we got him. But Cade, Kuminga, Green, and Suggs are just more enticing to me especially when you consider our two best young players (Siakam and OG) can and are playing center and forward positions when we go small.

I'm actually not a Mobley fan. What I was trying to say was that your conclusion about bigs and championships doesn't have a good basis. And neither does your argument about wings and championships. The players you listed, outside of pierce and maybe Kawhi, are extremely special players. There are also plenty of elite wings that haven't won championships.

[720]

And what exactly do you base all this on? One thing is becoming obvious right now. Good bigs with size and inside out game are starting to feast on the league due to lack of size and strength inside. Everyone talks about problem of bigs on D and failing on P&R defence, but no one says what's the big deal if he goes the other side and gets an easy basket. And while shooting range matters to the modern game, I think people are forgetting the modern game went from barely 2 starters having 3 point range to 4 on average. The game is still open with one big who works the lanes.

Just based off of recent champions. Let's look back at the best players of the past few, Lebron, Kawhi, KD, KD, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi/Duncan, Lebron, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce. Aside from Dirk and Duncan everyone else is a guard/forward.

Is has come to the point where you basically NEED an elite guard/forward if you have any dreams of winning it all. Like you said, the game keeps expanding further and further away from the basket. Giving us more of a reason to get guys that can potentially be part of the elite guards/forwards list. Mobley is good, and I wouldn't complain if we got him. But Cade, Kuminga, Green, and Suggs are just more enticing to me especially when you consider our two best young players (Siakam and OG) can and are playing center and forward positions when we go small.

I'm actually not a Mobley fan. What I was trying to say was that your conclusion about bigs and championships doesn't have a good basis. And neither does your argument about wings and championships. The players you listed, outside of pierce and maybe Kawhi, are extremely special players. There are also plenty of elite wings that haven't won championships.

Why isn't it a good argument? If we look at NBA history as a whole I AGREE bigmen play a star role in most championship teams. You could argue the NBA was a big man's league for decades. But the past 10-15 years or so if you want to win a championship it's more important to have a star guard or forward.

As for those players being special. I agree. If the goal is to eventually win a championship then those are the kinds of players you should want/look for.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Let's pray that Queta falls to us in the 2nd round.

Paul Reed almost did being picked at #58.

Queta or Bassey would be dream scenarios in the 2nd round.