Draft Thread Part 2

[Psubs]

How's Evan Mobley? Recently we have seen centers picked in the top 5 not being worth it simply because wings and guards are more important.
Even the good ones like Ayton have been over shadowed by the star wings in the draft.
I'm not in favour of drafting centers in the top 5 unless they are really special. So i guess what i'm asking is Mobley special?

Possibly Anthony Davis but then, what's his worth these days?

I think Kuminga is at least a more athletic Luol Deng and can facilitate like a Siakam. I would be glad to nab Kuminga at #7 if a couple of players could jump in at #5 and #6.

He could be a faller like Haliburton, SGA, Michael Porter Jr or Jamal Murray!

[Indeed]

I think we need to challenge the givens in this draft.

Assumption #1: The top five order is set. I personally don't believe that Kuminga is a lock to stay in the top five. He would be a project who may not produce much at all right away. If it is a team like Orlando with multiple picks and an already young team, maybe they opt for my personal favorite for them Franz Wagner. They just signed Mo Wagner and reuniting him with his brother is a great fit. They do have two top ten picks, so even if they use the other pick on Wagner, maybe a Scottie Barnes who adds playmaking that they need would fit well. It just really depends on if you buy a 25% three point shooter over a guy with a high level assist rate. Maybe even a guy like Giddey makes it to the top 5 because of people wanting to repeat the Lamelo success. Kuminga is an okay passer but no one will think he is a jumbo creator type.

Assumption #2: Keon Johnson is in a tier ahead of James Bouknight. To me both are incredible athletes with Keon Johnson missing all of the natural scoring skills of Bouknight. Also, Johnson doesn't have nearly the handle or shake that Bouknight has. To me Johnson is RJ Hampton and likely a bit smaller. I am really surprised that Johnson is ranked in the top ten. He is a nice athlete but he is a spaz. Rushes his plays at the rim, rushes closeouts wildly on D. He is also really a light weight so I don't think he will easily finish in the NBA right away. Bouknight is similarly light but he has way more tricks in his bag. Bouknight is light years ahead of Keon, if you ask me.

Assumption #3: All the wings will be drafted ahead of any big. Last year Onyeka Okongwu was picked 6 overall. Usman Garuba is a guy who is younger, more accomplished and really looks like the next potential Bam Adebayo with his passing and defense and rim running. Not to mention Alperin Sengun being a dominant scorer in Europe. I am saying it is possible that one of these guys makes it to the 6-8 range because quality bigs are valuable.

I'd prepare to look at Kuminga as a very real draft option for Toronto:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Oh how I hope you’re right. I would be ecstatic if Kuminga became a Raptor. I also agree about Bouknight being ahead of Keon. Only thing is defensively and passing wise, James leaves a lot to be desired. He does have that ability to be one of the top scorers in the league though, and I’m sure with time and trust in his teammates he can develop his playmaking.

It is true that the knock on Bouknight is that he is selfish, but UCONN was a truly terrible team when he was injured. I think with talent around him he would facilitate more. Just listen to him with Mike Schmidt during his ESPN chat. He understands the game at a high level and seems willing to get better.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

He also routinely faced double and even triple teams which led to his bad turnover percentage. I don't think he will get that treatment right away and he just seems too talented not to succeed. The guy drips star potential.

Kuminga is my guy to fall to Toronto. I can see us getting him in a bit of shocker because people are losing it over Giddey and other creator wings like Barnes. Kuminga showed some good and bad in G-League so they might talk themselves out of him.

I like Bouknight at first, but very worried on his defense. It seems he got lost in zone or rotation.
I feel he is more Barbosa, may improve his passing to be better than Barbosa, but his defensive awareness would be a concern.

[gojoorange]

Oh how I hope you’re right. I would be ecstatic if Kuminga became a Raptor. I also agree about Bouknight being ahead of Keon. Only thing is defensively and passing wise, James leaves a lot to be desired. He does have that ability to be one of the top scorers in the league though, and I’m sure with time and trust in his teammates he can develop his playmaking.

It is true that the knock on Bouknight is that he is selfish, but UCONN was a truly terrible team when he was injured. I think with talent around him he would facilitate more. Just listen to him with Mike Schmidt during his ESPN chat. He understands the game at a high level and seems willing to get better.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

He also routinely faced double and even triple teams which led to his bad turnover percentage. I don't think he will get that treatment right away and he just seems too talented not to succeed. The guy drips star potential.

Kuminga is my guy to fall to Toronto. I can see us getting him in a bit of shocker because people are losing it over Giddey and other creator wings like Barnes. Kuminga showed some good and bad in G-League so they might talk themselves out of him.

I like Bouknight at first, but very worried on his defense. It seems he got lost in zone or rotation.
I feel he is more Barbosa, may improve his passing to be better than Barbosa, but his defensive awareness would be a concern.

I think he is smaller than his listed 6'5" too? Maybe 6'3"?

[UcanUwill]

Putting Sengun in tier 5, trust me, that will not age well.

What offense only center has been successful recently? Jokic? KAT? end of list?

Third in the league in blocking rate, second in BLK%, 21th. Drtg. (took a big dive this week), and gets extra 1.5 steal per game.

Do not be fooled that he is lock to play no defense just because he is white and not overly long, kid has active hands and IQ to use it.

[Indeed]

Mobley. He's so fluid and the perfect kind of big man for us. A OG/Siakam/Mobley big man lineup where they can flip who they are guarding depending on the matchup is drool worthy.

i agree and that would be tough for any offense to go against. GTJ also gives them good size if they wanted to switch anything.

the only thing is the raps would have the same predicament where they don't have a go-to #1 offensive player. so your defense might be elite but you're really putting a ceiling on your offense. and as intriguing as mobley's offensive skill set is you don't want to rely on your center creating most of your offense (unless they are jokic).

Wouldn't too worry about the offense for the Raptors, as there are good guards every year at the bottom of the draft.

You can hardly find a good big on FA or draft. And on this draft, who is after Mobley? Kai Jones/Isaiah Jackson/Sengun/Barnes? They are not even close to play the C (height/wingspan slightly below average). Now look at the guards after Green, Keon/Davion/Springer/Giddey/Moody are not as big of a drop off then the C spot.

I would have Mobley first.

[Dalek]

How's Evan Mobley? Recently we have seen centers picked in the top 5 not being worth it simply because wings and guards are more important.
Even the good ones like Ayton have been over shadowed by the star wings in the draft.
I'm not in favour of drafting centers in the top 5 unless they are really special. So i guess what i'm asking is Mobley special?

Mobley is special and you don't find a lot of prospects who can defend and score the ways he can. He always seems in control on defense and has elite length to contest shots:

Read on Twitter

On offense he has a variety of post moves and soft touch which should make him pretty lethal in close, along with some comfortbeing able to attack closeouts with some straightline drives to the basket.

Read on Twitter

Right now he is going to be a lot like Boucher. A skinny C with freak length that allows him to shotblock from the perimeter and a scorer from a lot of spots. He may not be ready to do that much on the interior given he is about 210 lbs. He has a frame that will add weight, unlike Boucher.

I consider Mobley the modern Duncan. Just not a lot of wasted movement, always in control with good positioning for the most part. Body wise, he reminds me of Chris Bosh.

Read on Twitter

[DG88]

I think we need to challenge the givens in this draft.

Assumption #1: The top five order is set. I personally don't believe that Kuminga is a lock to stay in the top five. He would be a project who may not produce much at all right away. If it is a team like Orlando with multiple picks and an already young team, maybe they opt for my personal favorite for them Franz Wagner. They just signed Mo Wagner and reuniting him with his brother is a great fit. They do have two top ten picks, so even if they use the other pick on Wagner, maybe a Scottie Barnes who adds playmaking that they need would fit well. It just really depends on if you buy a 25% three point shooter over a guy with a high level assist rate. Maybe even a guy like Giddey makes it to the top 5 because of people wanting to repeat the Lamelo success. Kuminga is an okay passer but no one will think he is a jumbo creator type.

Assumption #2: Keon Johnson is in a tier ahead of James Bouknight. To me both are incredible athletes with Keon Johnson missing all of the natural scoring skills of Bouknight. Also, Johnson doesn't have nearly the handle or shake that Bouknight has. To me Johnson is RJ Hampton and likely a bit smaller. I am really surprised that Johnson is ranked in the top ten. He is a nice athlete but he is a spaz. Rushes his plays at the rim, rushes closeouts wildly on D. He is also really a light weight so I don't think he will easily finish in the NBA right away. Bouknight is similarly light but he has way more tricks in his bag. Bouknight is light years ahead of Keon, if you ask me.

Assumption #3: All the wings will be drafted ahead of any big. Last year Onyeka Okongwu was picked 6 overall. Usman Garuba is a guy who is younger, more accomplished and really looks like the next potential Bam Adebayo with his passing and defense and rim running. Not to mention Alperin Sengun being a dominant scorer in Europe. I am saying it is possible that one of these guys makes it to the 6-8 range because quality bigs are valuable.

I'd prepare to look at Kuminga as a very real draft option for Toronto:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

If Kuminga falls to us at 7th, you take him and run.

[VanWest82]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

[Ell Curry]

Watching Lamelo and Lonzo and seeing the massive difference in their first step and what it allows Lamelo to create in halfcourt possessions vs Lonzo makes me wary of a guy like Giddey if we don't think he can get into the lane easily, but excited if he can.

Another Warriors deal I could see is this, especially if the Wolves keep their pick and we don't move up in the lottery:

sign and trade Lowry for Wiseman and Poole
Boucher, 2022 lottery protected first rounder and #45 for Looney

We get Wiseman on the cheap but the Warriors get a starter in Lowry who allows Klay to play the 3 (which probably suits him coming back a tad slower and he's not so young anymore), Boucher to pair with Green and a ringchasing MLE center at the big spots and a future 1st to get a cheap rotation guy for their insane tax bill or to use at the deadline to grab another rotation quality guy, as well as the #45 pick they'd use on someone like Robinson-Earl, Wieskamp or Livers who can hopefully give them playoff minutes as a 5th best guy on the court type as soon as year 2 in the playoffs.

[mademan]

Putting Sengun in tier 5, trust me, that will not age well.

What offense only center has been successful recently? Jokic? KAT? end of list?

Third in the league in blocking rate, second in BLK%, 21th. Drtg. (took a big dive this week), and gets extra 1.5 steal per game.

Do not be fooled that he is lock to play no defense just because he is white and overly long, kid has active hands and IQ to use it.

His measurements are gonna determine where he's picked. If he's actually 6'9, i cant see him being a long term starting C for any team in the league.

[Dalek]

It is true that the knock on Bouknight is that he is selfish, but UCONN was a truly terrible team when he was injured. I think with talent around him he would facilitate more. Just listen to him with Mike Schmidt during his ESPN chat. He understands the game at a high level and seems willing to get better.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

He also routinely faced double and even triple teams which led to his bad turnover percentage. I don't think he will get that treatment right away and he just seems too talented not to succeed. The guy drips star potential.

Kuminga is my guy to fall to Toronto. I can see us getting him in a bit of shocker because people are losing it over Giddey and other creator wings like Barnes. Kuminga showed some good and bad in G-League so they might talk themselves out of him.

I like Bouknight at first, but very worried on his defense. It seems he got lost in zone or rotation.
I feel he is more Barbosa, may improve his passing to be better than Barbosa, but his defensive awareness would be a concern.

I think he is smaller than his listed 6'5" too? Maybe 6'3"?

I think when he is engaged he can defend well and contain the ball.

Read on Twitter

I don't think he will be too different than 6'5" but I do like the Barbosa comparison because James has great on ball speed that coupled with his array of hesi moves he can always keep defenders off balance. To me, the biggest adjustment for Bouknight will be playing more off the ball. He isn't a good catch and shoot guy so whatever team takes him should look to let him create with the ball to get the best out of him.

[PhilBlackson]

my main team is the pistons but i've lived in the GTA all my life so i still follow the raps pretty closely, even if i don't actively cheer for them.

with the flattened lotto odds i've mentally prepared myself for the possibility of the pistons falling to the 6th pick (from 2) and i should say there are still some intriguing players left in the 6/7 range. i'm waiting for the closer to the draft to do my full research but so far jalen johnson and scottie barnes are interesting, as well as the potential of keon johnson.

just putting in my two cents for those that have a "win the lotto or bust" mentality.

also, let's say the raps get the second pick. who do people want to get? mobley to fill the center need? green to give the team a true #1 scoring option? suggs to add to the intangibles that the raps really like?

Mobley. He's so fluid and the perfect kind of big man for us. A OG/Siakam/Mobley big man lineup where they can flip who they are guarding depending on the matchup is drool worthy. If I'm being honest with fellow realgmers, if we win #1 pick and #2 is being offered for a swap + another asset, I'd consider it. Especially if we'd be looking at Orlando as a trade partner who can offer a second lottery pick

Always a fear looking at bigs with injuries like Demarcus Cousins or Anthony Davis.

Cade doesn't depend on athleticism so would likely stay away from major injuries to the legs. Perhaps the C is going the way of the Running Back in the NFL. You need them to be a threat but don't depend on them to win. They need to do other things like block and be a release valve as a receiver out of the backfield. In the NBA, the modern C now needs to guard the P&R decently, maybe hit the corner 3?

Cade would be like a QB that can throw the deep ball and be taken #1.

Finding someone like Birch and using the MLE might be a more optimal way to fill the C role.

Didn't really answer his either/or question...Green or Mobley with the #2 pick?! The assumption being made is Cade is gone 1st overall...

For me it's Jalen Green.

Not that Mobley wouldn't be excellent and have a huge impact as well....I certainly wouldn't complain about drafting him at all BUT if I have a choice, I'm taking the kid who looks like almost a lock to be a near 30ppg scorer at some point in his career and why I value that more than anchoring the defense and a big that will space the floor?!

Because the Playoffs show us every single year that every team needs a player that can get his own buckets.

Until Kawhi (and after)..the problem year after year, didn't matter, if we had Serge, Gasol etc...the team needed/needs a guy who can get his own bucket even when teams are able to create a scheme to slowdown your team. Suddenly ball movement and just trying to find an open man goes out the window. I don't see Mobley having quite that skill level to get what he wants but Green's first step and leaping ability is truly elite -- he will get what he wants or a team will have to foul or double so there is an open man. I don't see Mobley becoming THAT skilled to do so.

But I'm with you whitehops on your picks with 7 and I might add Bouknight to that list (Christopher would be at minimum a honorable mention, he might be like Kevin Porter Jr without the off court bs).

I'm just of the opinion that we're not likely to be in the lottery for the foreseeable future so might as well take a player with good upside especially given how well we develop our players and we're good enough to let them take some time to do so n don't need a win now piece because realistically with the Nets no one is getting through for the next 2-3 years anyways.

[Jadoogar]

How's Evan Mobley? Recently we have seen centers picked in the top 5 not being worth it simply because wings and guards are more important.
Even the good ones like Ayton have been over shadowed by the star wings in the draft.
I'm not in favour of drafting centers in the top 5 unless they are really special. So i guess what i'm asking is Mobley special?

Possibly Anthony Davis but then, what's his worth these days?

I think Kuminga is at least a more athletic Luol Deng and can facilitate like a Siakam. I would be glad to nab Kuminga at #7 if a couple of players could jump in at #5 and #6.

He could be a faller like Haliburton, SGA, Michael Porter Jr or Jamal Murray!

Bigs/Centers selected in the top 5:
- 2020: Wiseman
- 2019: Zion (i guess, he's not a traditional big)
- 2018: Ayton, Bagley, JJJ (would any of these 3 be in the top in a redraft? this was a strong draft)
- 2017: no bigs (Markkanen and Isaac taken 6 and 7th)
- 2016: Dragan Bender (lol)
- 2015: KAT, Okafor, Porzingis (very big heavy draft, Myles Turner taken later in lottery)
- 2014: Embiid, Gordon
- 2013: Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Bennett (kinda)
- 2012: Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson
- 2011: Kanter, Tristan Thomas, JV (kawhi, Klay taken later)

Basically in the last 10 years, 19 bigs taken in the top 5.
3 all-nba level players (Embiid, KAT, AD), maybe 4 allstars (Ayton, Porzingis, JJJ, Zion)

[DreamTeam09]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

None sense, you draft kuminga. I'd put OG at the 2 spot and then hope

FVV
OG
Kuminga
Pascal
Look for a stretch 5

Hope that group has enough playmaking and shooting to make it work. Luckily kuminga has some play making abilities.

Christian wood be amazing with that group but I wouldn't want to give up multiple picks for him and I doubt Houston wants to trade him.

Maybe if we could flip our 2 2nds for a first and then send a future first but not sure if Houston wants to do all of that

[CoinTossRoss31]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

None sense, you draft kuminga. I'd put OG at the 2 spot and then hope

FVV
OG
Kuminga
Pascal
Look for a stretch 5

Hope that group has enough playmaking and shooting to make it work. Luckily kuminga has some play making abilities.

Christian wood be amazing with that group but I wouldn't want to give up multiple picks for him and I doubt Houston wants to trade him.

Maybe if we could flip our 2 2nds for a first and then send a future first but not sure if Houston wants to do all of that

Agreed always take the BPA. And Kuminga is one of the youngest prospects playing in a men's league. On my big board #4/#5 are same tier with Suggs and Kuminga. I can see a case being made for either of them to be drafted there depending on the team

[ATLTimekeeper]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

He has skill, but it's almost comical how often top recruits are overhyped and he may well be one of them. Cam Reddish told everyone in his year at Duke that he was overhyped and Atlanta still took him in the lotto. And they still played him too much, and they only started winning when he got hurt. I don't know enough about Kuminga other than his cousin was an overhyped lotto bust and he went to a bunch of high schools (usually a bit of a flag). I'm not saying he'll bust, but I wouldn't be ecstatic if he fell to us. Usually when guys slide and there's no obvious injury concern there's a good reason. A good example is Andre Drummond, who made everyone that passed on him look like fools in the short term, but in the long-term he was impossible to build around.

[VanWest82]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

None sense, you draft kuminga. I'd put OG at the 2 spot and then hope

FVV
OG
Kuminga
Pascal
Look for a stretch 5

Hope that group has enough playmaking and shooting to make it work. Luckily kuminga has some play making abilities.

Christian wood be amazing with that group but I wouldn't want to give up multiple picks for him and I doubt Houston wants to trade him.

Maybe if we could flip our 2 2nds for a first and then send a future first but not sure if Houston wants to do all of that

Agreed always take the BPA. And Kuminga is one of the youngest prospects playing in a men's league. On my big board #4/#5 are same tier with Suggs and Kuminga. I can see a case being made for either of them to be drafted there depending on the team

Who said he'd be BPA? People are going to focus on him shooting 24% from three in g league, but the fact he's 6'9 and only shot 46% from two on 9+ attempts is really concerning. He's not a play maker. If you can't dribble, pass, or shoot at an NBA level, what are you really bringing to the table? He's a long-term developmental prospect where you're hoping for a Kawhi-like trajectory. Let someone else fall for the measurables.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Bigs/Centers selected in the top 5:
- 2020: Wiseman
- 2019: Zion (i guess, he's not a traditional big)
- 2018: Ayton, Bagley, JJJ (would any of these 3 be in the top in a redraft? this was a strong draft)
- 2017: no bigs (Markkanen and Isaac taken 6 and 7th)
- 2016: Dragan Bender (lol)
- 2015: KAT, Okafor, Porzingis (very big heavy draft, Myles Turner taken later in lottery)
- 2014: Embiid, Gordon
- 2013: Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Bennett (kinda)
- 2012: Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson
- 2011: Kanter, Tristan Thomas, JV (kawhi, Klay taken later)

Basically in the last 10 years, 19 bigs taken in the top 5.
3 all-nba level players (Embiid, KAT, AD), maybe 4 allstars (Ayton, Porzingis, JJJ, Zion)

Zion will likely be an all-NBA player.

As for the rest, I have Irving, Beal, Simmons, Tatum, Luka, maybe Ball as all-NBA quality (although I think Simmons is not someone that can be built around). 6/31 v 3/19? Doesn't seem like much of a difference to me. I'll add that Mobley is a much better prospect than pretty much everyone on that list save AD, Zion and KAT. That should matter here. Comparing him to Cody Zeller would be as unfair as comparing Kyrie Irving to Kris Dunn.

[gojoorange]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

None sense, you draft kuminga. I'd put OG at the 2 spot and then hope

FVV
OG
Kuminga
Pascal
Look for a stretch 5

Hope that group has enough playmaking and shooting to make it work. Luckily kuminga has some play making abilities.

Christian wood be amazing with that group but I wouldn't want to give up multiple picks for him and I doubt Houston wants to trade him.

Maybe if we could flip our 2 2nds for a first and then send a future first but not sure if Houston wants to do all of that

I can’t see Nick Nurse starting a rookie next season. Someone as raw as Kuminga would definitely be coming off the bench, maybe even spending more time in the g league.

[VanWest82]

If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.

He has skill, but it's almost comical how often top recruits are overhyped and he may well be one of them. Cam Reddish told everyone in his year at Duke that he was overhyped and Atlanta still took him in the lotto. And they still played him too much, and they only started winning when he got hurt. I don't know enough about Kuminga other than his cousin was an overhyped lotto bust and he went to a bunch of high schools (usually a bit of a flag). I'm not saying he'll bust, but I wouldn't be ecstatic if he fell to us. Usually when guys slide and there's no obvious injury concern there's a good reason. A good example is Andre Drummond, who made everyone that passed on him look like fools in the short term, but in the long-term he was impossible to build around.

He's a teenager and I have no idea what's between his ears or how hard he'll work, but the little bit I did see of his g league games didn't inspire confidence. The contrast between him and his top 5 teammate was stark so I might have been biased by that. Fingers crossed we move into top 4 and don't have to make these hard decisions.