Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V2.0

[OakleyDokely]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

[YogurtProducer]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

The thing about DET is their lottery luck has been horrible as well. There really has not been an "obvious" mistake to really harp on.

2024 - Holland is an obvious TBD but falling to 5 in a weak draft is tough

2023 - fell to 3 and took Thompson. But really the next 5 guys there is no "wow you regret that" player (Black / Bilal / Walker / Hendricks / Wallace). Maybe Wallace, but he could just look good due to being a top 10 pick on an actual good team

2022 - Ivey, who IMO is no better or worse than Mathurin / Sharpe / Daniels / Sochan who all went after.

2022 - Duren - hard to complain. By far the best player in that range

Everything else was before Cade, but even Hayes which was a dreadful pick the guys after were Toppin / Deni / Smith (and then vassell and haliburton obv.)

So even if they drafted perfectly since Cade, we are looking at

Cade / Wallace / Mathurin / Duren / Holland (or whoever).

The Pistons are just the complete absolute scare factory against tanking. You win the lottery in a decent draft, and then just keep falling to 5 and get screwed witth the tier 2/3 prospects over and over.

[OakleyDokely]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

The thing about DET is their lottery luck has been horrible as well. There really has not been an "obvious" mistake to really harp on.

2024 - Holland is an obvious TBD but falling to 5 in a weak draft is tough

2023 - fell to 3 and took Thompson. But really the next 5 guys there is no "wow you regret that" player (Black / Bilal / Walker / Hendricks / Wallace). Maybe Wallace, but he could just look good due to being a top 10 pick on an actual good team

2022 - Ivey, who IMO is no better or worse than Mathurin / Sharpe / Daniels / Sochan who all went after.

2022 - Duren - hard to complain. By far the best player in that range

Everything else was before Cade, but even Hayes which was a dreadful pick the guys after were Toppin / Deni / Smith (and then vassell and haliburton obv.)

So even if they drafted perfectly since Cade, we are looking at

Cade / Wallace / Mathurin / Duren / Holland (or whoever).

The Pistons are just the complete absolute scare factory against tanking. You win the lottery in a decent draft, and then just keep falling to 5 and get screwed witth the tier 2/3 prospects over and over.

ya, their drafting has been fine. They have been a victim of some bad lottery lock and/or having high picks in some mediocre drafts, but the type of players they keep drafting don't seem to fit their max young guy.

[YogurtProducer]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

The thing about DET is their lottery luck has been horrible as well. There really has not been an "obvious" mistake to really harp on.

2024 - Holland is an obvious TBD but falling to 5 in a weak draft is tough

2023 - fell to 3 and took Thompson. But really the next 5 guys there is no "wow you regret that" player (Black / Bilal / Walker / Hendricks / Wallace). Maybe Wallace, but he could just look good due to being a top 10 pick on an actual good team

2022 - Ivey, who IMO is no better or worse than Mathurin / Sharpe / Daniels / Sochan who all went after.

2022 - Duren - hard to complain. By far the best player in that range

Everything else was before Cade, but even Hayes which was a dreadful pick the guys after were Toppin / Deni / Smith (and then vassell and haliburton obv.)

So even if they drafted perfectly since Cade, we are looking at

Cade / Wallace / Mathurin / Duren / Holland (or whoever).

The Pistons are just the complete absolute scare factory against tanking. You win the lottery in a decent draft, and then just keep falling to 5 and get screwed witth the tier 2/3 prospects over and over.

ya, their drafting has been fine. They have been a victim of some bad lottery lock and/or having high picks in some mediocre drafts, but the type of players they keep drafting don't seem to fit their max young guy.

Yeah they seem to go BPA - trade for fit later.

Problem is BPA at their spot hasn’t been very good

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[billy_hoyle]

The thing about DET is their lottery luck has been horrible as well. There really has not been an "obvious" mistake to really harp on.

2024 - Holland is an obvious TBD but falling to 5 in a weak draft is tough

2023 - fell to 3 and took Thompson. But really the next 5 guys there is no "wow you regret that" player (Black / Bilal / Walker / Hendricks / Wallace). Maybe Wallace, but he could just look good due to being a top 10 pick on an actual good team

2022 - Ivey, who IMO is no better or worse than Mathurin / Sharpe / Daniels / Sochan who all went after.

2022 - Duren - hard to complain. By far the best player in that range

Everything else was before Cade, but even Hayes which was a dreadful pick the guys after were Toppin / Deni / Smith (and then vassell and haliburton obv.)

So even if they drafted perfectly since Cade, we are looking at

Cade / Wallace / Mathurin / Duren / Holland (or whoever).

The Pistons are just the complete absolute scare factory against tanking. You win the lottery in a decent draft, and then just keep falling to 5 and get screwed witth the tier 2/3 prospects over and over.

ya, their drafting has been fine. They have been a victim of some bad lottery lock and/or having high picks in some mediocre drafts, but the type of players they keep drafting don't seem to fit their max young guy.

Yeah they seem to go BPA - trade for fit later.

Problem is BPA at their spot hasn’t been very good

If you mean that they seem to go with consensus BPA, then I agree. Objectively, they've missed out on ALOT of talented players picked in the same draft range.

[YogurtProducer]

ya, their drafting has been fine. They have been a victim of some bad lottery lock and/or having high picks in some mediocre drafts, but the type of players they keep drafting don't seem to fit their max young guy.

Yeah they seem to go BPA - trade for fit later.

Problem is BPA at their spot hasn’t been very good

If you mean that they seem to go with consensus BPA, then I agree. Objectively, they've missed out on ALOT of talented players picked in the same draft range.

I would say they have not really (since Cade was picked)

2022 - they took Ivey. Who realistically is materially a more talented player you are confident is going to be better over the rest of their careers? Mathurin? Sharpe?

2022 - Duren was a clear hit. There is not a single player in the draft drafted after him you would take.

2023 - Ausar Thompson - again, no obvioius misses were taken in that range

2024 - Holland - such a TBD there is no point even discussing.

[WuTang_CMB]

I would have taken Clingan at 5. He was the best player available at that spot IMO
This team is going to still be at the bottom , what a mess they made

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[billy_hoyle]

Yeah they seem to go BPA - trade for fit later.

Problem is BPA at their spot hasn’t been very good

If you mean that they seem to go with consensus BPA, then I agree. Objectively, they've missed out on ALOT of talented players picked in the same draft range.

I would say they have not really (since Cade was picked)

2022 - they took Ivey. Who realistically is materially a more talented player you are confident is going to be better over the rest of their careers? Mathurin? Sharpe?

2022 - Duren was a clear hit. There is not a single player in the draft drafted after him you would take.

2023 - Ausar Thompson - again, no obvioius misses were taken in that range

2024 - Holland - such a TBD there is no point even discussing.

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

[Pointgod]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

Pistons are the perfect example of what happens when you don’t commit to tanking properly. They stupidly signed vets to take minutes away from their young players, they hired a coach who actually played vets over young players, they held onto bums like Kilian Hayes instead of trading them for anything. The goal of any rebuilding team should be to have multiple first round picks in any given draft to give you flexibility to move up or take chances in the draft. It’s amazing how much they’re **** up their rebuild considering Cade should be the easiest player to build around.

[YogurtProducer]

If you mean that they seem to go with consensus BPA, then I agree. Objectively, they've missed out on ALOT of talented players picked in the same draft range.

I would say they have not really (since Cade was picked)

2022 - they took Ivey. Who realistically is materially a more talented player you are confident is going to be better over the rest of their careers? Mathurin? Sharpe?

2022 - Duren was a clear hit. There is not a single player in the draft drafted after him you would take.

2023 - Ausar Thompson - again, no obvioius misses were taken in that range

2024 - Holland - such a TBD there is no point even discussing.

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

[billy_hoyle]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

Pistons are the perfect example of what happens when you don’t commit to tanking properly. They stupidly signed vets to take minutes away from their young players, they hired a coach who actually played vets over young players, they held onto bums like Kilian Hayes instead of trading them for anything. The goal of any rebuilding team should be to have multiple first round picks in any given draft to give you flexibility to move up or take chances in the draft. It’s amazing how much they’re **** up their rebuild considering Cade should be the easiest player to build around.

Don't commit to a tank? They've had the BEST odds of winning the draft in:

2024
2023
2022

Drafted Cade #1 in 2021

They've literally done THE best you could possibly do.

They had 3 firsts in the 2020 draft.
They had 2 firsts in the 2023 draft.
They had 2 lottery picks in the 2022 draft.

Was this post satirical?

[billy_hoyle]

I would say they have not really (since Cade was picked)

2022 - they took Ivey. Who realistically is materially a more talented player you are confident is going to be better over the rest of their careers? Mathurin? Sharpe?

2022 - Duren was a clear hit. There is not a single player in the draft drafted after him you would take.

2023 - Ausar Thompson - again, no obvioius misses were taken in that range

2024 - Holland - such a TBD there is no point even discussing.

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

That's a lottery team? Hmmm.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I would have taken Clingan at 5. He was the best player available at that spot IMO
This team is going to still be at the bottom , what a mess they made

I would have taken Clingan at #1 if I were the Atlanta Hawks.

[WuTang_CMB]

I would have taken Clingan at 5. He was the best player available at that spot IMO
This team is going to still be at the bottom , what a mess they made

I would have taken Clingan at #1 if I were the Atlanta Hawks.

easily i had him #1 on my board

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Cade was a horrible selection at #1 and the markers were there in college. On top of that they spent high draft picks in back to back years on two guys with atrocious shooting ability which means they're anticipating them playing together on the court. Let's say Ausar and Ron lead the league in hustle stats and D from a wing duo in 4 years, maybe they find a way to make it work in a slower paced system with two quality ISO scorers alongside them, but you usually spend those high draft picks to secure guys who can become such scorers and not role players. So they not only have their work cut out for them in implementing an appropriate system, not only need both picks to hit but also need to find a way to get two stud scorers on their team.

[TimeForChange]

Behind the scenes look at the hornets war room on draft night

Watch on YouTube

draft stuff starts at around 7:50

[YogurtProducer]

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

That's a lottery team? Hmmm.

Any team who is starting Ausar / Duren / Clingan in 2024-25, and brining Paul Reed, Aaron Wiggins, and Shaedon Sharpe off the bench as your 8th-10th men is a lottery team, and quite easily so.

The fact that is even a conversation is just telling as to how hard rebuilding is when you get as unlucky as DET has gotten with ping pong balls. You can re-draft 100% perfectly and still be kind of ass.

[YogurtProducer]

Cade was a horrible selection at #1 and the markers were there in college. On top of that they spent high draft picks in back to back years on two guys with atrocious shooting ability which means they're anticipating them playing together on the court. Let's say Ausar and Ron lead the league in hustle stats and D from a wing duo in 4 years, maybe they find a way to make it work in a slower paced system with two quality ISO scorers alongside them, but you usually spend those high draft picks to secure guys who can become such scorers and not role players. So they not only have their work cut out for them in implementing an appropriate system, not only need both picks to hit but also need to find a way to get two stud scorers on their team.

There is no guarantee you keep both Ausar and Ron.