Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[PushDaRock]

The A/TO ratio has been absolutely dreadful since his return from injury.

Only real positive development has been the mid range game and his perimeter man D looks a bit better as well, everything else has been about the same or regressed.

[AbC?]

Bring a couple, maybe 3 guys better than him and let him be that elite role player he’s best suited to be.

[Indeed]

The A/TO ratio has been absolutely dreadful since his return from injury.

Only real positive development has been the mid range game and his perimeter man D looks a bit better as well, everything else has been about the same or regressed.

His A/TO ratio has been bad since the start of the season without Barrett.

He is not at the level where he can consistently creating for himself, and he needs to have a certain matchup / spot to be effective. Last year with Siakam creating, he has been rather good with his spot up. Is he still good with his spot up? I believe so, but he is not getting those with him being the target. Therefore, the stats feel it has been regressed, but him being the #1 option instead of last year being the #2 or #3 option.

[Scase]

I'd say the best way to put it is while there's no real conclusive evidence, there's positive signs pointing that way. He's upped his shooting of amount of shots from 10-16 to 14% and mid rage overall 22.2%

I think 28% on 3s is where I want him at....so basically Kawhi.

Kawhi has a career .210 (0-3)/.164 (3-10)/.192 (10-16)/.153 (16-3P)/.281 (3P) in shot distribution on range from the hoop. He's basically the guy to emulate.

Tbh Barnes .192/.247 from 0-10 feet is something i'm actually happy is being lowered, it indicates that he's taking more shots overall from outside 10 feet.

If he takes over 50% of his shots from 0-10 feet he's too easy to stop as only players like Giannis, Jokic etc can excel specifically in that area. People wanting him to play in the post miss that fact.

Anyways, let's hope his shooting at ATB dead center keeps improving, he's at 35-37% there depending on statmuse or BBindex.

Also note, if you take a look at his shot chart he really does seem to be taking the majority of his shots from 1 side of the court.

The thing is, Kawhi came into the league shooting 37-38%, his shot diet justified that many 3's. Scottie is significantly worse from 3 than Kawhi was, and you don't learn how to shoot a 3 from a couple hundred attempts in a season. I can assure you that if Kawhi was shooting 29% coming into the NBA, Pop would not have let him take 30% of his attempts from 3.

Just because we want him to be like Kawhi, doesn't mean we force a square peg into a round hole. As for the 0-10ft range, the only person stopping Scottie there, is Scottie. He needs to learn how to establish position on the low block, cause when he has it, and he's looking to score, he has no issues getting to the basket.

28% on 16.5 shot attempts is 4.6 attempted 3s a game, which is actually below last years pace.

The last thing I want is him being on the 22% he was in his sophomore year. The thing is he can't be hesitant to shoot the 3 either. Limiting him is going to slow his progress. You just have to hope that if the 3 doesn't fall for 4-5 straight attempts and he's 0-5 that he mixes it up.

But I also believe you are writing him off too early as well (in regards to shooting 3s).

Far from it, I'm not saying he can't do it, I'm preaching picking easier 3's. He has shot, 30%, 28%, 34%, and 29% from 3, I think it's pretty understandable to have some skepticism about him not being a great 3pt shooter when he's pretty god damn bad at it lol.

Can he get better, yeah pretty likely, but should he be focusing on that more than other options, I don't think so.

[PushDaRock]

The A/TO ratio has been absolutely dreadful since his return from injury.

Only real positive development has been the mid range game and his perimeter man D looks a bit better as well, everything else has been about the same or regressed.

His A/TO ratio has been bad since the start of the season without Barrett.

He is not at the level where he can consistently creating for himself, and he needs to have a certain matchup / spot to be effective. Last year with Siakam creating, he has been rather good with his spot up. Is he still good with his spot up? I believe so, but he is not getting those with him being the target. Therefore, the stats feel it has been regressed, but him being the #1 option instead of last year being the #2 or #3 option.

Not really sure we can buy his 3 point shooting in the first half of the year last season. It's looking more likely that it was a hot streak.

I'm not sure that he's the #1 option, he's certainly not the leading scorer as RJ is by a comfortable margin.

[HumbleRen]

That mid range shot is cash, I like that shot for him. His handles have gotten worse though. He can’t blow by anyone man, it’s pretty tough.

It’s looking more and more that he’s a souped up connector rather than an offensive hub or a lead ball handler. Jalen Williams is going through a similar issue on OKC.

[manjusaka]

That mid range shot is cash, I like that shot for him. His handles have gotten worse though. He can’t blow by anyone man, it’s pretty tough.

It’s looking more and more that he’s a souped up connector rather than an offensive hub or a lead ball handler. Jalen Williams is going through a similar issue on OKC.

I don’t think he was able to blow by people from the beginning, which limited his ability as a lead guard. However, he is still probably the second best lead guard on the team.

His midrange jump does look decent lately.

[brownbobcat]

That mid range shot is cash, I like that shot for him. His handles have gotten worse though. He can’t blow by anyone man, it’s pretty tough.

It’s looking more and more that he’s a souped up connector rather than an offensive hub or a lead ball handler. Jalen Williams is going through a similar issue on OKC.

Their games are not the same, but if Scottie doesn't significantly progress on skill development, he's going to end up as a Siakam-level player at best.

[ItsDanger]

I viewed Scottie in the Rasheed Wallace type role (he was also picked 4th overall) with discount Magic mixed in. If the lineup is built with that in my mind, it should work better.

[Nature]

I viewed Scottie in the Rasheed Wallace type role (he was also picked 4th overall) with discount Magic mixed in. If the lineup is built with that in my mind, it should work better.

Shorter Rasheed with better playmaking has been my go-to comparison all year for Scottie.

Like Sheed, Scottie's going to be a frustrating player to watch until he's on a team with more shooters/scorers where he can excel as the ultimate offensive/defensive glue guy.

That Pistons team changed completely once they added Sheed. I think Prime Scottie will be able to have the same level of impact once he has the right pieces to work with.

[TakeYourHeart]

What to make of Scottie's on/off? The offense is significantly worse when he's on the floor, but the defense is significantly better:



He's basically having a Gobert-esque impact, tanking the offense but saving the defense.

[Vampirate]

What to make of Scottie's on/off? The offense is significantly worse when he's on the floor, but the defense is significantly better:



He's basically having a Gobert-esque impact, tanking the offense but saving the defense.

Offensive Rebounding is down, three point shooting is down, free throw rate has declined a little, free throw percentage is down turnovers are up.

The only 1 thing he's been better at stat wise compared to years prior is that mid range.

[YogurtProducer]

What to make of Scottie's on/off? The offense is significantly worse when he's on the floor, but the defense is significantly better:



He's basically having a Gobert-esque impact, tanking the offense but saving the defense.

HE has been the main PG all year. He is not a guy you can have being a PG.

Seems about all there is to it.

[TorontoBarneys]

Scottie needs to let go of his PG obsession and work on the areas of his game that actually can propel him to elite status.

I've had a sense of anxiety about his development since last summer. Looking at those workout tapes it just felt off. Bro has no business working on step-back behind-the-back dribble 3s.

[Vampirate]

Scottie needs to let go of his PG obsession and work on the areas of his game that actually can propel him to elite status.

I've had a sense of anxiety about his development since last summer. Looking at those workout tapes it just felt off. Bro has no business working on step-back behind-the-back dribble 3s.

Barnes either needs to work on his pull up 3s or drawing FTs.

Just shooting 10-18 overall isn't enough if it only gets you 21 points.

[adhir]

Does anybody here worry about his motivation? It seems as though he does tend to coast games - but when there is something he is trying to prove (i.e. against Pascal) - the motivation kicks in and we see what he could be. But it isnt consistent?

im going to come back to this - i like the kid - but the above does worry me. It does not seem like he really imposes his will on the game. I always knew he wasn't going to be that elite scorer (ala Kawhi). But i thought he could be the leader of this team ala Kyle Lowry - where he isn't the primary option - but he is the engine that orchestrates the offense. But I don't think he can be that either now - he just doesnt seem to impact winning at all - unless he has an ulterior motive or something to prove. The latter just wont work, when the team is trying to build their chemistry and establish an identity.

[PushDaRock]

What to make of Scottie's on/off? The offense is significantly worse when he's on the floor, but the defense is significantly better:



He's basically having a Gobert-esque impact, tanking the offense but saving the defense.

I think it's basically saying at least on this team if we were trying to optimize for wins (which we aren't), then his focus should be on trying to be an all-NBA level defender and his offensive game should be more in the dunker spot and flashing to the block area when he has mismatches while RJ/IQ spam PnR's with Jak and Gradey/Ochai are in spot up shooting roles with basket cuts when they are there.

[TorontoBarneys]

I think it just means that he's being misused on offense. Considering what we've seen this year from him jacking up 10 3s a game to passing it off to total scrubs instead of easily scoring it himself, it's obvious there's still huge room for improvement.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's absolutely tanking this offense for whatever reasons. Can't read too much into it. It's not fun to watch, though.

[HumbleRen]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.