2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[DG88]

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[Indeed]

If don't get the consensus top 2, then I would trade down as much as I could while still selecting Carter Bryant. I'm sold on him; like a little bulkier Jayson Tatum.

What pick do you think he gets selected?

I think he'll test well at the combine and move up. 8-10. Tijane Salaun jumped all the way to #6, but Cooper and Harper push him down 2 spots.

Charlotte is so dumb. If they knew they didn't want Mark Williams long-term, then they should've drafted Donovan Clingan.

I also see Bryant being in the top 12, and it is very unlikely to trade down two or three spots.
Anyone in the top 12 range, would be in the similar tier, and we might draft them.

If we need another pick, we should trade one of our existing player.

[mtcan]

The way we view VJ, why not get everything that VJ does in OG's body?

#1 Cooper Flagg
#2 Dylan Harper
#3 Carter Bryant

If don't get the consensus top 2, then I would trade down as much as I could while still selecting Carter Bryant. I'm sold on him; like a little bulkier Jayson Tatum.

I don't see Jayson Tatum at all in him.

I see no creation ability with Bryant whereas Jayson Tatum was certified bucket at Duke.

Bryant is 3+D...maybe elite 3+D but he doesn't have the bag that Tatum has. I see a lot of OG in the way he moves and in his build. Big strong wing who can defend and hit 3s.

[Indeed]

Spoiler:

Allen being "the most upside" simply isn't true lol. I literally just showed how we was both a better rebounder & shot blocker at the same age but most importantly he shot VASTLY higher percentages both from the FT line and field which may be the completely untapped part of his game which there were flashes of in BAL when he was getting more touches. If Jarrett Allen could suddenly hit mid range to 3pt shots as Khaman has shown flashes of he'd be a completely different level player. Khaman also shows very soft touch around the rim if you watch some of the hook shots and just lay up finishes he makes when he's not dunking everything. This is also at 7'2 with a longer wingspan and will probably have 30+pds on Allen by the time Maluach reaches his physical prime. I'm not sure there's a great comparison of Maluach's potential because no it certainly is NOT an Embiid type of player but a 7'2 monster that can defend the rim, rebound AND potentially knock down jumpers could have a huge impact overall.

That being said yes I favor a more dynamic player like Queen because as you said (and I pointed out a couple pages ago when I made an argument for Queen) when the Playoffs hit, you want more than one player that can create their own shot...and then others. BI & Queen would give us that. I love Tre, I know I was one of the first people talking about him when the college season started (along with Fears) but idk if it kinda feels like a diminishing return considering almost HALF the roster is SGs lol (RJ, JaKobe, Ochai, Gradey, Battle, Lawson, Rhoden). That's SEVEN of our 15 roster spots, Tre would make LITERALLY make MORE than half the roster. I just don't see them drafting him at all for that reason even if I like him myself. Likewise with Fears they just paid IQ (too much) and Shead has pretty much cemented that back up role. I don't buy that this FO will ACTUALLY go BPA even though I really, really like both of them - they'll just sell us who they select as the "BPA" regardless of who it is.

And I don't think it's coincidence that the FO has not only publicly acknowledged they want a YOUNG big but have also refused to try to address the backup C position with an actual NBA player lol. Even last year Masai said he wanted a young C to develop and don't tell me Chomche as he's almost at a grade school level of bball IQ, love the kid and his physical traits to be a great defender eventually but he can't be compared to Maluach, KM was a the backbone defensively of the top program in college, Chomche wouldn't get on the court. But again I prefer Queen anyways and think he's the fair "compromise" in some ways because he offers some upside to be a bit more "dynamic" while also fulfilling a NEED that I'm almost certain the FO is gonna use this pick to address whether that's what either of us want or not. If anything I just worry about a team like the Nets drafting him before we can.

I hope you are right about Maluach being better than Allen...But you said hes shown Mid range and shooting....I don't think he has 1 mid range jumpshot in his entire Duke season....He has not shown he can do it on the college level consistently if at all.... Let alone in the NBA

Also we are not good enough imo to draft on need or our roster we have now....We won 30 games last season you just have to go BPA.....And Tre upside is way 2 good to pass on....Again Maluach vs Fears can be debated. Maluach at the end of the day will be best suited in his NBA career as a rim running P&R lob threat imo....If you let him take 3 pointers or try and create for himself you will see alot of bad basketball and ugly misses. Thats just not his game at all.

I didn't say he will, I said he has the POTENTIAL to be better than Allen just to be clear lol. Likewise I also said he had shown flashes of a mid range & 3pt shot in BAL and no it would be impossible for him to show that consistency at Duke because they literally didn't run any plays for him to show any of that. Obv in BAL he was much more of a focal point/greater freedom offensively so he showed more there. I know obv that's lesser competition but he can only show what the coaching staff allows him to, we've seen that happen to (much) greater players than himself in college ie/ AD & KAT (to a lesser extent). But Scheyer as a 1st coach at Duke following one of the GOAT college coaches of all time and inheriting a supposed "generational" prospect along with multiple other top recruits (ie/ Kon, Evans, Proctor etc) didn't have the leash to develop or test things out, it was all about winning and making sure guys play their roles hence why a kid like Evans that would start on vast majority of college teams was forced to come off the bench. But the FT% and percentages from the floor are there that there's at least POTENTIAL there to be greater.

Also being a "30W team" is a bit disingenuous...I'm not sure the exact numbers but I'll be surprised if our full starting lineup even played 1/3 of the season together an I'd say for almost 3/4 of the season we were missing multiple starters and that's not even factoring Ingram as one of them. We could EASILY been a lot better than that at full health, we were fighting to LOSE games lol. BUT again love Tre but I simply don't see the FO considering an EIGHTH shooting guard (period) and maaaybe they'll consider Fears but I still have my doubts considering the lack of minutes available. Can't say it enough that I don't think it's any coincidence that we lack an actual NBA level backup C and Masai flat out saying that's what he wants lol. To be clear personally I don't even debate Fears vs Maluach, I think Fears has more star potential but don't see them doing it. Because I don't see them considering any guards, the only non C I might see them looking at is Carter Bryant.

Personally I like any of Queen, Bryant (would've been Fears had I believed the FO would do it) or Maluach (prob in that order). So it's not like I'm personally attached to drafting Maluach but again I just think people writing him off as a "bust" or "backup at best" is a bit crazy when we haven't seen him in the NBA yet considering he has a higher starting point (and potential) than a current borderline all-star C especially with a franchise that develops as well as we do.

Allen also showed flashes of a mid range / baseline jumper (in college). Allen showed flashes on his post moves.
Allen in his draft days has the same potential as Maluach.

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[Gavin_TDThree]

A second pick in this draft would be huge. Would love to come away with Queen/Malauch and Carter Bryant

[mtcan]

I hope the GM’s in front of us think like you.

This draft is funny. I'm taking Edgecombe of the two. Tre might be a star. But he might also drive me nuts taking bad shots I fear. At least with VJ, even if his upside does not actualize, he still is going to dunk the ball, hit some shots, and do his best defensively. Folks won't be talking about Davion if we lucked into VJ. I'd hope the Raptors pick Ace if available. Not because I think he will be the best. But his best looks the highest and I trust in the FO to make the right pick.

The way we view VJ, why not get everything that VJ does in OG's body?

#1 Cooper Flagg
#2 Dylan Harper
#3 Carter Bryant

I agree that Edgecombe can and should be compared to Bryant and thus...I don't like the idea of taking either with a 3rd pick...personally. I like Bryant's size relative to Edgecombe but VJ obviously is more athletic. Their offensive games are similar but obviously VJ has played more minutes and has more real world data about his game. When you stretch their stats to per36...the numbers are pretty similar in terms of shooting % and stocks.

[Psubs]

If don't get the consensus top 2, then I would trade down as much as I could while still selecting Carter Bryant. I'm sold on him; like a little bulkier Jayson Tatum.

I don't see Jayson Tatum at all in him.

I see no creation ability with Bryant whereas Jayson Tatum was certified bucket at Duke.

Bryant is 3+D...maybe elite 3+D but he doesn't have the bag that Tatum has. I see a lot of OG in the way he moves and in his build. Big strong wing who can defend and hit 3s.

He played his role at Arizona. He was being a team player. If he was playing on Rutgers, you would see his full game like in HS.

[Psubs]

This draft is funny. I'm taking Edgecombe of the two. Tre might be a star. But he might also drive me nuts taking bad shots I fear. At least with VJ, even if his upside does not actualize, he still is going to dunk the ball, hit some shots, and do his best defensively. Folks won't be talking about Davion if we lucked into VJ. I'd hope the Raptors pick Ace if available. Not because I think he will be the best. But his best looks the highest and I trust in the FO to make the right pick.

The way we view VJ, why not get everything that VJ does in OG's body?

#1 Cooper Flagg
#2 Dylan Harper
#3 Carter Bryant

I agree that Edgecombe can and should be compared to Bryant and thus...I don't like the idea of taking either with a 3rd pick...personally. I like Bryant's size relative to Edgecombe but VJ obviously is more athletic. Their offensive games are similar but obviously VJ has played more minutes and has more real world data about his game. When you stretch their stats to per36...the numbers are pretty similar in terms of shooting % and stocks.

VJ needs his athleticism so much like Oladipo.

[Dalek]

"My biggest strength is my defense," Essengue said. "I have the versatility to guard 1 to 5. If an NBA coach wanted to put me on the court right now, it would be because I can stay in front of point guards and also put a body on centers. I need to keep improving every aspect of my game, though. I'm playing tougher every game, trying to match the intensity and physicality of my opponents."

"I want to be a guy who can do everything on the court. I watch a lot of Kevin Durant, Brandon Ingram, and Kawhi Leonard, players that can dribble, pass, shoot and defend."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44733314/french-forward-noa-essengue-enter-nba-draft

Noa Essengue is the best upside pick for men even ahead of Maluach and Beringer. He is a dunking machine and has length and freakish ground coverage on defense.

I love that he watches Ingram. Imagine learning under one of his favorite players. Personally I think his frame fills out better than Ingram in time.

Since March 1 - 39% from three, 53% from the field. He is also only 18 and the second youngest to Flagg playing pro ball.

Watch on YouTube

[BoyzNTheHood]

"My biggest strength is my defense," Essengue said. "I have the versatility to guard 1 to 5. If an NBA coach wanted to put me on the court right now, it would be because I can stay in front of point guards and also put a body on centers. I need to keep improving every aspect of my game, though. I'm playing tougher every game, trying to match the intensity and physicality of my opponents."

"I want to be a guy who can do everything on the court. I watch a lot of Kevin Durant, Brandon Ingram, and Kawhi Leonard, players that can dribble, pass, shoot and defend."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44733314/french-forward-noa-essengue-enter-nba-draft

Noa Essengue is the best upside pick for men even ahead of Maluach and Beringer. He is a dunking machine and has length and freakish ground coverage on defense.

I love that he watches Ingram. Imagine learning under one of his favorite players. Personally I think his frame fills out better than Ingram in time.

Since March 1 - 39% from three, 53% from the field. He is also only 18 and the second youngest to Flagg playing pro ball.

Watch on YouTube

As of today, I’d say he, Bryant and Maluach are top 3 on our brass’ draft boards within our current range.

[Morse Code]

I hope the GM’s in front of us think like you.

Name a similar prospect who turned out well.

Mitchell, Oladipo, and Westbrook.

None are even close to as raw as VJ. VJ can't dribble, has no shiftiness to his game whatsoever.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Name a similar prospect who turned out well.

Mitchell, Oladipo, and Westbrook.

None are even close to as raw as VJ. VJ can't dribble, has no shiftiness to his game whatsoever.

Whatever you say.

[Boogie!]

If don't get the consensus top 2, then I would trade down as much as I could while still selecting Carter Bryant. I'm sold on him; like a little bulkier Jayson Tatum.

I don't see Jayson Tatum at all in him.

I see no creation ability with Bryant whereas Jayson Tatum was certified bucket at Duke.

Bryant is 3+D...maybe elite 3+D but he doesn't have the bag that Tatum has. I see a lot of OG in the way he moves and in his build. Big strong wing who can defend and hit 3s.

He played his role at Arizona. He was being a team player. If he was playing on Rutgers, you would see his full game like in HS.

There’s a dude named Carter Bryant? Is he better than LeBryan Nash?

[mtcan]

I don't see Jayson Tatum at all in him.

I see no creation ability with Bryant whereas Jayson Tatum was certified bucket at Duke.

Bryant is 3+D...maybe elite 3+D but he doesn't have the bag that Tatum has. I see a lot of OG in the way he moves and in his build. Big strong wing who can defend and hit 3s.

He played his role at Arizona. He was being a team player. If he was playing on Rutgers, you would see his full game like in HS.

There’s a dude named Carter Bryant? Is he better than LeBryan Nash?

I'm sure somewhere there is a LeBron Jordan whose parents are hoping is the next big thing.

[Gavin_TDThree]

Queen and Carter Bryant please and thank you

[JShuttlesworth]

If don't get the consensus top 2, then I would trade down as much as I could while still selecting Carter Bryant. I'm sold on him; like a little bulkier Jayson Tatum.

I don't see Jayson Tatum at all in him.

I see no creation ability with Bryant whereas Jayson Tatum was certified bucket at Duke.

Bryant is 3+D...maybe elite 3+D but he doesn't have the bag that Tatum has. I see a lot of OG in the way he moves and in his build. Big strong wing who can defend and hit 3s.

Psubs makes his comparisons based on measurements, not game.

I like Bryant, but the Tatum comparison is crazy

[NinjaBro]

Waching Sengun, Malauch over Queen would just be crazy to me. Skill over length every single time. This is a skill league

I'm much too humble and modest to publicly pat myself on the back on this forum, but I told you guys at the draft that Sengun will be a star. Lots of naysayers as usual has gone quiet. I always advocate skill over length every time. That's why masai's 6'9 vision was so infuriating to me.

[Dennis 37]

Waching Sengun, Malauch over Queen would just be crazy to me. Skill over length every single time. This is a skill league

I'm much too humble and modest to publicly pat myself on the back on this forum, but I told you guys at the draft that Sengun will be a star. Lots of naysayers as usual has gone quiet. I always advocate skill over length every time. That's why masai's 6'9 vision was so infuriating to me.

We barely tried 6'9. When we did our defense was stifling.

[mademan]

Name a similar prospect who turned out well.

Mitchell, Oladipo, and Westbrook.

None are even close to as raw as VJ. VJ can't dribble, has no shiftiness to his game whatsoever.

Thats not true. Westbrook was far more raw

[Pointgod]

We should have tried to trade for another pick in this draft. One of the reasons why not building assets over the years and trading spare picks for players never made sense.