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Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1661 » by Psubs » Mon May 10, 2021 7:59 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.


He has skill, but it's almost comical how often top recruits are overhyped and he may well be one of them. Cam Reddish told everyone in his year at Duke that he was overhyped and Atlanta still took him in the lotto. And they still played him too much, and they only started winning when he got hurt. I don't know enough about Kuminga other than his cousin was an overhyped lotto bust and he went to a bunch of high schools (usually a bit of a flag). I'm not saying he'll bust, but I wouldn't be ecstatic if he fell to us. Usually when guys slide and there's no obvious injury concern there's a good reason. A good example is Andre Drummond, who made everyone that passed on him look like fools in the short term, but in the long-term he was impossible to build around.


He's a teenager and I have no idea what's between his ears or how hard he'll work, but the little bit I did see of his g league games didn't inspire confidence. The contrast between him and his top 5 teammate was stark so I might have been biased by that. Fingers crossed we move into top 4 and don't have to make these hard decisions.


Kuminga looked way better than Green during the 2 scrimages, then when the regular season began Green emerged better. I guess Kuminga is more raw than Green who flourished in the more structured game. So it may take Kuminga 2-3 years to join the rotation but I feel like he has more defensive versatility than Green covering 2-4, which is immensely valuable.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1662 » by OakleyDokely » Mon May 10, 2021 8:01 pm

Kuminga is two years away from being two years away.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1663 » by ATLTimekeeper » Mon May 10, 2021 8:04 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
That's their job. You do your home-work as best as you can in a draft, that's what the Raps are doing. Just because they went to go see this guy, doesn't mean he's high on their list. Covid circumstances or not, you gotta navigate through it all to see every player.


It doesn't mean he's high on their list, but it also means he's on their list. You've been given enough evidence to stand down, and provided nothing to counter. With roughly a month and a half to watch all international prospects, the Raptors willingly wasted two weeks of quarantine with their top guy on someone who, according to you, doesn't fit their team? That's irrational. This is a weird year and teams are not scouting very much at all. The majority of teams didn't attend NCAA games this year. https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31076123/what-nba-storylines-watching-ncaa-tournament In my naive brain, I would think it would be a huge waste of resources, time and energy to check off a box for someone they had no interest in actually drafting.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1664 » by VanWest82 » Mon May 10, 2021 8:14 pm

Psubs wrote:Kuminga looked way better than Green during the 2 scrimages, then when the regular season began Green emerged better. I guess Kuminga is more raw than Green who flourished in the more structured game. So it may take Kuminga 2-3 years to join the rotation but I feel like he has more defensive versatility than Green covering 2-4, which is immensely valuable.


That may very well be true but the truth is it's not that hard to find good defensive wings. We found two at the end of the first round and have several more already on the roster. The hard part is finding wings with skill and a natural feel for the game. Always go for the guys who play well in actual games.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1665 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon May 10, 2021 8:16 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:If Kuminga falls to us we trade out of the spot and pick up an asset. We need players with skill and BBIQ.


He has skill, but it's almost comical how often top recruits are overhyped and he may well be one of them. Cam Reddish told everyone in his year at Duke that he was overhyped and Atlanta still took him in the lotto. And they still played him too much, and they only started winning when he got hurt. I don't know enough about Kuminga other than his cousin was an overhyped lotto bust and he went to a bunch of high schools (usually a bit of a flag). I'm not saying he'll bust, but I wouldn't be ecstatic if he fell to us. Usually when guys slide and there's no obvious injury concern there's a good reason. A good example is Andre Drummond, who made everyone that passed on him look like fools in the short term, but in the long-term he was impossible to build around.


He's a teenager and I have no idea what's between his ears or how hard he'll work, but the little bit I did see of his g league games didn't inspire confidence. The contrast between him and his top 5 teammate was stark so I might have been biased by that. Fingers crossed we move into top 4 and don't have to make these hard decisions.


I mean I'd take Green probably 2nd, 3rd at worst, but kuminga will be a star, definitely gives me less trepidation than suggs does. At 6'8 222 SF with handles, unselfishness, and the ability to get to rim, those r the types of players that rarely fail at that size. His jumper doesn't look ugly either.

The thing with these Gleague rookie prospects, is I have confidence with what they've shown because they've done it against NBA men already. Like we've seen what him and green have done already in the Gleague, that experience can't be over looked, especially for Green n Kuminga who showed out.

To me his comp would be like Rui with better play making skills, which is exactly what Rui has to incorporate into his game to take him to another level.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1666 » by VanWest82 » Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 pm

I was not originally not super in love with the idea of Giddey but I'm coming around. He may not be athletic or a good defender or have a low center of gravity but he has skill and feel for the game all day long. We could definitely do worse.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1667 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon May 10, 2021 8:19 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Kuminga is two years away from being two years away.


Why do you say that tho, I've seen other posters with similar sentiments, even though we've just seen this kid look good in the Gleague
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1668 » by WuTang_CMB » Mon May 10, 2021 8:22 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
That's their job. You do your home-work as best as you can in a draft, that's what the Raps are doing. Just because they went to go see this guy, doesn't mean he's high on their list. Covid circumstances or not, you gotta navigate through it all to see every player.


It doesn't mean he's high on their list, but it also means he's on their list. You've been given enough evidence to stand down, and provided nothing to counter. With roughly a month and a half to watch all international prospects, the Raptors willingly wasted two weeks of quarantine with their top guy on someone who, according to you, doesn't fit their team? That's irrational. This is a weird year and teams are not scouting very much at all. The majority of teams didn't attend NCAA games this year. https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31076123/what-nba-storylines-watching-ncaa-tournament In my naive brain, I would think it would be a huge waste of resources, time and energy to check off a box for someone they had no interest in actually drafting.


You still don’t get it. The Raps are going to scout every player in the draft with their top scouting guys to do their homework. You havent given any evidence yourself to back your point other than “their top guy went to go see him” ya again thats his job. Covid or not you spend the resources and time. Now i am telling you this player soesnt fit out mold. Thags my opinion. So i dont put weight rumours of our top scouting guy going to watch him. Unlike you, who thinks thats a big deal lol.

This isnt some houseleague team with limited resources. If they want to scout, they are going to spend the money and scout as they should.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1669 » by MikeM » Mon May 10, 2021 8:32 pm

Bouknight will get picked before Kuminga.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1670 » by Dalek » Mon May 10, 2021 8:47 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Kuminga is two years away from being two years away.


It is funny but a true case for almost all of these wing prospects. I can't remember a draft with so many 18/19 year-old wing players coming in with less than NBA ready skillsets. Look at last year to this for guys who will need a couple years to be productive:

2020 Draft
Patrick Williams (4)
Isaac Okoro (5)
Deni Avdija (9)
Josh Green (18)
Precious Achuiwa (20)
Jaden McDaniels (28)

2021 Draft possible first rounders:
Jonathan Kuminga - iffy shooter / defender
Scottie Barnes - iffy shooter
Josh Giddey - iffy shooter / weak defender
Alperin Sengun - too small and slow to defend at an NBA level
Usman Garuba - too small to defend bigs and doesn't have proven shooting skill
Jalen Johnson - not a shooter and extremely inconsistent
Ziaire Williams - weak body with questionable shooting results
Roko Prkacin - weak body with mixed shooting results and defense
Greg Brown - can't pass and shooting needs work
Brandon Boston - can't do anything well currently
Marcus Bagley - same as Boston

These are just the freshmen or young pros in Europe that are expecting to be drafted pretty high and you cannot guarantee they will be productive right away. I left out Moody and Wagner because I think they can step in and defend their spot and hit outside shots. I see them as pretty safe players to draft if you want immediate production.

I wonder how this draft will be looked at next year versus 3 years from now. I think people might claim this draft to be a bust after next season but given the age of these guys I think this draft will look great in a couple years.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1671 » by bballsparkin » Mon May 10, 2021 8:53 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Bigs/Centers selected in the top 5:
- 2020: Wiseman
- 2019: Zion (i guess, he's not a traditional big)
- 2018: Ayton, Bagley, JJJ (would any of these 3 be in the top in a redraft? this was a strong draft)
- 2017: no bigs (Markkanen and Isaac taken 6 and 7th)
- 2016: Dragan Bender (lol)
- 2015: KAT, Okafor, Porzingis (very big heavy draft, Myles Turner taken later in lottery)
- 2014: Embiid, Gordon
- 2013: Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Bennett (kinda)
- 2012: Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson
- 2011: Kanter, Tristan Thomas, JV (kawhi, Klay taken later)

Basically in the last 10 years, 19 bigs taken in the top 5.
3 all-nba level players (Embiid, KAT, AD), maybe 4 allstars (Ayton, Porzingis, JJJ, Zion)


I would take Mobley over all the players listed other than AD. Embiid too but his health is a concern. I like JJJ the most after Doncic from that draft. But he can't seem to stay healthy either. I'm a bit of a Trae hater. SGA I would maybe select before JJJ though.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1672 » by Jadoogar » Mon May 10, 2021 8:58 pm

bballsparkin wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
Bigs/Centers selected in the top 5:
- 2020: Wiseman
- 2019: Zion (i guess, he's not a traditional big)
- 2018: Ayton, Bagley, JJJ (would any of these 3 be in the top in a redraft? this was a strong draft)
- 2017: no bigs (Markkanen and Isaac taken 6 and 7th)
- 2016: Dragan Bender (lol)
- 2015: KAT, Okafor, Porzingis (very big heavy draft, Myles Turner taken later in lottery)
- 2014: Embiid, Gordon
- 2013: Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Bennett (kinda)
- 2012: Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson
- 2011: Kanter, Tristan Thomas, JV (kawhi, Klay taken later)

Basically in the last 10 years, 19 bigs taken in the top 5.
3 all-nba level players (Embiid, KAT, AD), maybe 4 allstars (Ayton, Porzingis, JJJ, Zion)


I would take Mobley over all the players listed other than AD. Embiid too but his health is a concern. I like JJJ the most after Doncic from that draft. But he can't seem to stay healthy either. I'm a bit of a Trae hater. SGA I would maybe select before JJJ though.


i would easily take Luka, Trae, SGA, Michael Porter over those bigs. It's just easier to find a serviceable center than it is to find a wing.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1673 » by MixxSRC » Mon May 10, 2021 9:07 pm

Jaden Springer looks like a complete guard. 6'4 PG
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1674 » by bballsparkin » Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 pm

Jadoogar wrote:i would easily take Luka, Trae, SGA, Michael Porter over those bigs. It's just easier to find a serviceable center than it is to find a wing.


You may be right. I never claimed I would be a good GM. ;)

I love JJJ's game though. And I don't love Trae's at all. Luka of course. He's the no doubt #1. Porter Jr I forgot. He is intriguing as well. And yeah, I'd love to have a player like SGA on the Raptors. I'd take him over JJJ due to injury concerns, likely.

Point is, Mobley looks great on both sides of the court. I don't know much about Green so I can't chime in on him. Suggs is nice but I'd rather Mobley. Like posted before: Mobley, Siakam, OG would be a phenomenal Big man rotation.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1675 » by OAKLEY_2 » Mon May 10, 2021 9:20 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
Psubs wrote:
CoinTossRoss31 wrote:

Mobley. He's so fluid and the perfect kind of big man for us. A OG/Siakam/Mobley big man lineup where they can flip who they are guarding depending on the matchup is drool worthy. If I'm being honest with fellow realgmers, if we win #1 pick and #2 is being offered for a swap + another asset, I'd consider it. Especially if we'd be looking at Orlando as a trade partner who can offer a second lottery pick


Always a fear looking at bigs with injuries like Demarcus Cousins or Anthony Davis. :(

Cade doesn't depend on athleticism so would likely stay away from major injuries to the legs. Perhaps the C is going the way of the Running Back in the NFL. You need them to be a threat but don't depend on them to win. They need to do other things like block and be a release valve as a receiver out of the backfield. In the NBA, the modern C now needs to guard the P&R decently, maybe hit the corner 3?

Cade would be like a QB that can throw the deep ball and be taken #1.

Finding someone like Birch and using the MLE might be a more optimal way to fill the C role.


Didn't really answer his either/or question...Green or Mobley with the #2 pick?! The assumption being made is Cade is gone 1st overall...

For me it's Jalen Green.

Not that Mobley wouldn't be excellent and have a huge impact as well....I certainly wouldn't complain about drafting him at all BUT if I have a choice, I'm taking the kid who looks like almost a lock to be a near 30ppg scorer at some point in his career and why I value that more than anchoring the defense and a big that will space the floor?!

Because the Playoffs show us every single year that every team needs a player that can get his own buckets.

Until Kawhi (and after)..the problem year after year, didn't matter, if we had Serge, Gasol etc...the team needed/needs a guy who can get his own bucket even when teams are able to create a scheme to slowdown your team. Suddenly ball movement and just trying to find an open man goes out the window. I don't see Mobley having quite that skill level to get what he wants but Green's first step and leaping ability is truly elite -- he will get what he wants or a team will have to foul or double so there is an open man. I don't see Mobley becoming THAT skilled to do so.

But I'm with you whitehops on your picks with 7 and I might add Bouknight to that list (Christopher would be at minimum a honorable mention, he might be like Kevin Porter Jr without the off court bs).

I'm just of the opinion that we're not likely to be in the lottery for the foreseeable future so might as well take a player with good upside especially given how well we develop our players and we're good enough to let them take some time to do so n don't need a win now piece because realistically with the Nets no one is getting through for the next 2-3 years anyways.


I think they take Mobley first and second. Third assuming Cade and Mobley are gone i take Suggs. If Cade, Mobley, Suggs go 1-2-3, I take Green at four who is interchangeable with Suggs at 3 depending on who we think will be the better player. Kuminga is 5 like all the consensus top 5 predictions. After that I think I go Mitchell at 6 post consensus top 5 and if picking 7 and all the above are off the board it is a toss between Moody and Barnes which means at 8 it is also Moody or Barnes. Keon Johnson factors in around 9th pick.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1676 » by Dalek » Mon May 10, 2021 9:23 pm

MixxSRC wrote:Jaden Springer looks like a complete guard. 6'4 PG


Springer is my guy. I don't know if the Raps have the nerve to draft a small at our range, but I really like him because of his on-court composure (never ratttled), toughness, unreal strength for an 18 year-old (heavier than Poku coming to the league), great family (a bit like Cole Anthony's family support), and skill. Tennessee's boring offense hid this guy from us:

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1677 » by Dalek » Mon May 10, 2021 9:37 pm

This draft twitter guy does a really good job on his player prospects. I really like the access to the heat maps. Looking at this, Ziaire Williams makes me want to believe.

Read on Twitter


Park him in the right corner to shoot threes at first and just use his crazy length at the two to contest shots. I really feel like he can be a Paul George like game changer on defense. He has other ball skills which he can develop, but this guy has that Ingram/Durant-like freakish length and mobility.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1678 » by Dalek » Mon May 10, 2021 9:45 pm

Look at all that red for Davion Mitchell. He is Darryl Morey's wet dream of three point shooting and at the rim makes.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1679 » by BoyzNTheHood » Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 pm

Dalek wrote:This draft twitter guy does a really good job on his player prospects. I really like the access to the heat maps. Looking at this, Ziaire Williams makes me want to believe.

Read on Twitter


Park him in the right corner to shoot threes at first and just use his crazy length at the two to contest shots. I really feel like he can be a Paul George like game changer on defense. He has other ball skills which he can develop, but this guy has that Ingram/Durant-like freakish length and mobility.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Ziaire's development will need to be in the weight room. He doesn't necessarily have to get bulkier, but he has to get a lot stronger. Guys like KD, BI and Tayshaun Prince can be blueprints for him.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1680 » by Dalek » Mon May 10, 2021 10:21 pm

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
Dalek wrote:This draft twitter guy does a really good job on his player prospects. I really like the access to the heat maps. Looking at this, Ziaire Williams makes me want to believe.

Read on Twitter


Park him in the right corner to shoot threes at first and just use his crazy length at the two to contest shots. I really feel like he can be a Paul George like game changer on defense. He has other ball skills which he can develop, but this guy has that Ingram/Durant-like freakish length and mobility.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Ziaire's development will need to be in the weight room. He doesn't necessarily have to get bulkier, but he has to get a lot stronger. Guys like KD, BI and Tayshaun Prince can be blueprints for him.


For sure those are the blueprints. When I watch the limited film of Ziaire he literally gets thrown around because he is so long and doesn't have the strength to finish. Ingram still looks thin and so does KD, but like you said they got strong enough to take the physicality of the NBA. Another recent example is Jaden McDaniels who is doing pretty well as a defensive role player. I see Williams as able to switch, protect the rim a bit, and shoot threes. He might make sense on a team in the 20s, but it feels like he is a steal late.

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