Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[dTox]

It's becoming more and more clear he's not going to be the best player on a contending team, and that's okay. I'm readjusting my expectations of him, to be the quality of a player - that a 4th overall pick traditionally is, which is probably a 3rd banana on a contending team. It is more important, now more than ever, that we attain that leading player, whether through a draft or trade, then this team's future will get back in good shape.

[dTox]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.

Agreed, what I will also add, is that Scottie just doesn't want it enough (to be a high end scorer) that a guy like Paolo (or other first options) crave for, I can't see Scottie wanting to put up 20+ shots every single game, it just doesn't seem to be in his DNA, it took me a while to finally accept this bitter truth. With that said, he has so many other skills to potentially make up for this

[HangTime]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.

Agreed, what I will also add, is that Scottie just doesn't want it enough (to be a high end scorer) that a guy like Paolo (or other first options) crave for, I can't see Scottie wanting to put up 20+ shots every single game, it just doesn't seem to be in his DNA, it took me a while to finally accept this bitter truth. With that said, he has so many other skills to potentially make up for this

I don't think that's it, I think he first wants to make the guys around him better first,
increase their confidence, while working on the tougher aspects of his game right now.

[HumbleRen]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.

Agreed, what I will also add, is that Scottie just doesn't want it enough (to be a high end scorer) that a guy like Paolo (or other first options) crave for, I can't see Scottie wanting to put up 20+ shots every single game, it just doesn't seem to be in his DNA, it took me a while to finally accept this bitter truth. With that said, he has so many other skills to potentially make up for this

I don't think that's it, I think he first wants to make the guys around him better first,
increase their confidence, while working on the tougher aspects of his game right now.

Cade and Paolo don’t do that themselves? Cade leads the league in assist lol.

The main reason why he comes across as passive is because he isn’t able to generate advantages for himself or others.

He’s a great passer in the vain of Draymond but he isn’t able to create advantages like Franz, Cade or Paolo.

[Nature]

It's becoming more and more clear he's not going to be the best player on a contending team, and that's okay. I'm readjusting my expectations of him, to be the quality of a player - that a 4th overall pick traditionally is, which is probably a 3rd banana on a contending team. It is more important, now more than ever, that we attain that leading player, whether through a draft or trade, then this team's future will get back in good shape.

Getting a top 5 scorer/closer is literally all the FO should be thinking about. Trade Scottie if you have to.

[Tripod]

My opinion of Barnes hasn't changed.

Can be 2nd best player on a championship team while being the 3rd "scorer".....just like Lowry was.

Lowry was behind Kawhi and Siakam PPG but was the 2nd most important player based on all the things he did.

[HumbleRen]

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[ATLTimekeeper]

He could also, like, play a lot better. He was an all-star on last year's crappy team.

[Indeed]

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Funny, I don't see the same thing talked about Bargnani, developed as a C instead of a PF.
Barnes got that excuse when he has no offensive skill as compare to other 1st overall pick that can start performing immediately. Would Sarr be getting the same excuse of being so raw that he deserves to be built around?

[AkelaLoneWolf]

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Wtf is this even supposed to mean? At the end of the day your play defines your legacy. And right now Barnes is falling a bit short.

[ForeverTFC]

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Funny, I don't see the same thing talked about Bargnani, developed as a C instead of a PF.
Barnes got that excuse when he has no offensive skill as compare to other 1st overall pick that can start performing immediately. Would Sarr be getting the same excuse of being so raw that he deserves to be built around?

I'm about as down on Scottie as one can be (without irrational hatred), but why are you comparing him to other 1st overall picks? He was picked 4th.

[MiamiSPX]

He could also, like, play a lot better. He was an all-star on last year's crappy team.

Agreed. At some point we have to stop blaming his teammates, or coaching, or this, that, and the other. Obviously there are a lot of variables that aren't optimal right now, but if you're going to become a star, it will show out despite all those things. I still think he can be an elite 2nd option but it's time to start proving that.

[Indeed]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Funny, I don't see the same thing talked about Bargnani, developed as a C instead of a PF.
Barnes got that excuse when he has no offensive skill as compare to other 1st overall pick that can start performing immediately. Would Sarr be getting the same excuse of being so raw that he deserves to be built around?

I'm about as down on Scottie as one can be (without irrational hatred), but why are you comparing him to other 1st overall picks? He was picked 4th.

Sarr is 2nd overall pick.
Or you can name who "other prospects got to emerge from the ashes of the rebuild" isn't mainly 1st overall player over the last 5 drafts.

[Scase]

I think it just means that he's being misused on offense. Considering what we've seen this year from him jacking up 10 3s a game to passing it off to total scrubs instead of easily scoring it himself, it's obvious there's still huge room for improvement.

Honestly, with how much the team has changed and been injured I don't think there's a whole lot to glean from it. Last year it showed that he was a net plus on offence, yet a net negative on defence. And this year it's the opposite, hell this year the same stats are showing that we are (marginally) better defensively with RJ on the floor, and the same with Gradey, both of those are obviously untrue lol.

I wouldn't put too much stock into these for any player this year.

As for Scottie specifically I think the tweet Ren posted in context makes sense. The experimental stuff he SHOULD have been doing in years 1/2/3 are being done now because of this half assed rebuild job. We aren't looking to win now, so he's being given the freedom to screw up and play outside his comfort zone. People aren't used to seeing that kind of regression...cause well it shouldn't happen in an organized rebuild.

But since this was done is a poor manner, and Masai had it in his head that the former mid core could win, the development of Scottie was within his current (at the time) skill set instead of trying to blossom as a rookie on rebuilding team. Now that we have finally are at the point where wins don't matter they are just doing that. Probably screws up his development long term tbh.

He could also, like, play a lot better. He was an all-star on last year's crappy team.

Agreed. At some point we have to stop blaming his teammates, or coaching, or this, that, and the other. Obviously there are a lot of variables that aren't optimal right now, but if you're going to become a star, it will show out despite all those things. I still think he can be an elite 2nd option but it's time to start proving that.

The issue is that we are treating him currently like he's a fresh rookie learning new things, but it's in his fourth year. If his coach is telling him "Do these things outside your comfort zone" he's gonna look worse than sticking to what we know he can do. It's like having to view him from the lens of a rookie, it's stupid, and feels like an excuse, but that's what this half assed rebuild is doing. He's not being put in a position to "show out" because they aren't playing him to his strengths.

If he wasn't meant to be playing this absurd PG role, or jacking up a million 3's then he should be getting benched, so it's safe to assume he's being directed to play this way.

[HumbleRen]

I think you guys are missing the point of that tweet. It’s not about catering to Scottie from the moment he got drafted.

It’s more so about Masai wasting everyone’s time with the 2 timeline crap he tried to pull off and got absolutely nothing out of it outside of delaying the obvious timeline which was the rebuild.

Teams like the Thunder, Magic, Rockets, Cavs, Detroit, etc etc stocked up on young talent while we bled away assets.

Warriors are on the other spectrum of what Masai did. They held on to their young guys at the expense of surrounding Curry with win now players and now they have nothing to show for it.

[YogurtProducer]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

Yeah... Cade and Banchero both still have efficiecny issues I am gonna need to see more than 5 games of Paolo this year before we can say he is efficient.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.

I mean some people said that 3 years ago. We were called "FVV-stans" or "haters".

[HumbleRen]

All this experimenting should have been in his first 2-3 years into the league. It’s why I laughed at people bringing up Paolo and Cade’s efficiency issues.

That’s what exactly what you’re supposed to do in your first 2 years. Explore your game, try to figure out your go to spots in which you’re comfortable at and work on your weaknesses. It’s supposed to look ugly and inefficient. The payoff is down the line when you’re in year 4/5, you’re comfortable with handling the ball under pressure, you’re comfortable taking difficult shots, you’re able to manage a game more maturely. You don’t have to experiment by then, you’re simply working on refinement and reps.

Yeah... Cade and Banchero both still have efficiecny issues I am gonna need to see more than 5 games of Paolo this year before we can say he is efficient.

At the very least, we’d have enough data to know he isn’t capable of being a lead ball handler or #1 option way before so we could plan accordingly in terms of the rebuild. Instead we just gave him the keys in year 4 after a max contract and told him to go explore your game lol.

I mean some people said that 3 years ago. We were called "FVV-stans" or "haters".

I know you ain’t talking. had crying tantrums whenever anyone suggested trading Siakam/FVV during those times.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think you guys are missing the point of that tweet. It’s not about catering to Scottie from the moment he got drafted.

It’s more so about Masai wasting everyone’s time with the 2 timeline crap he tried to pull off and got absolutely nothing out of it outside of delaying the obvious timeline which was the rebuild.

Teams like the Thunder, Magic, Rockets, Cavs, Detroit, etc etc stocked up on young talent while we bled away assets.

Warriors are on the other spectrum of what Masai did. They held on to their young guys at the expense of surrounding Curry with win now players and now they have nothing to show for it.

What young talent did the Cavs stock up on after they drafted Mobley? They basically just went all-in after that.

I get that there's always going to be crying over two-timelines, but it has worked for other teams. It didn't work for this one. The Rockets went out and signed vets and immediately their young players didn't look so crappy.

[HumbleRen]

I think you guys are missing the point of that tweet. It’s not about catering to Scottie from the moment he got drafted.

It’s more so about Masai wasting everyone’s time with the 2 timeline crap he tried to pull off and got absolutely nothing out of it outside of delaying the obvious timeline which was the rebuild.

Teams like the Thunder, Magic, Rockets, Cavs, Detroit, etc etc stocked up on young talent while we bled away assets.

Warriors are on the other spectrum of what Masai did. They held on to their young guys at the expense of surrounding Curry with win now players and now they have nothing to show for it.

What young talent did the Cavs stock up on after they drafted Mobley? They basically just went all-in after that.

I get that there's always going to be crying over two-timelines, but it has worked for other teams. It didn't work for this one. The Rockets went out and signed vets and immediately their young players didn't look so crappy.

All you need is 2 young guys at the very least to hit.

Garland X Mobley is great building block to build from.

Sengun, Tari, Amen, Green, Jabari are all very solid building blocks to help support.

Franz, Suggs, Paolo.

Chet, JDub, SGA.

Meanwhile we tried to skip the process by bringing in an inefficient non defender in RJ and a 25 year old combo guard who’s shown flashes of great play but nothing amazing. The only other lotto pick we drafted since Scottie is Gradey.

[Vampirate]

That mid range shot is cash, I like that shot for him. His handles have gotten worse though. He can’t blow by anyone man, it’s pretty tough.

It’s looking more and more that he’s a souped up connector rather than an offensive hub or a lead ball handler. Jalen Williams is going through a similar issue on OKC.

If he can maintain an above 50% from 10-16 feet for a year on decent amount then there is actual hope for him as a scorer.

Essentially his short range game was his strength (3-10 feet). If it's possible for him to shoot this well over a season at 10-16 feet, then it's also theoretically possible for him to stretch his shooting to 16-3P.

The hope essentially is him stretching enough to 3 point shooting but that's going to take a couple of years imo, but possible.

1 step at a time here, but still, he has to keep doing this. (also being honest we all thought the same with his 3 point shot last year, so we'll see)

56.7% on 15.1% of his total shots thus far is a good sign though.