Draft Thread Part 4

[mademan]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

But Lillard/Portland did torch him. They put up a 119.5 ORTG which would lead the league; Denver was just able to pick apart Portlands equally swiss cheese defense. Jokic and defending at a high enough level to win is a long term problem for Denver and im not sure how anyone can see it any other way.

He's a slow big in a league where guards are capable of scoring from 30+ feet out; it's gonna be ridiculously difficult for Denver to work around that, and he's an MVP offensive player. Sengun almost certainly wont be as good and you really do have to consider how good you can be with a relatively slow big in the modern league

[PhilBlackson]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

But Lillard/Portland did torch him. They put up a 119.5 ORTG which would lead the league; Denver was just able to pick apart Portlands equally swiss cheese defense. Jokic and defending at a high enough level to win is a long term problem for Denver and im not sure how anyone can see it any other way.

He's a slow big in a league where guards are capable of scoring from 30+ feet out; it's gonna be ridiculously difficult for Denver to work around that, and he's an MVP offensive player. Sengun almost certainly wont be as good and you really do have to consider how good you can be with a relatively slow big in the modern league

Not to mention Sengun is considerably shorter and not as long.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

But Lillard/Portland did torch him. They put up a 119.5 ORTG which would lead the league; Denver was just able to pick apart Portlands equally swiss cheese defense. Jokic and defending at a high enough level to win is a long term problem for Denver and im not sure how anyone can see it any other way.

He's a slow big in a league where guards are capable of scoring from 30+ feet out; it's gonna be ridiculously difficult for Denver to work around that, and he's an MVP offensive player. Sengun almost certainly wont be as good and you really do have to consider how good you can be with a relatively slow big in the modern league

Of course they torched him, which was why it was brought up. It didn't matter.

Donovan Mitchell is demolishing Kawhi and Paul George and pretty much all the best perimeter defenders in the league. That's the league right now. These are unguardable shots. You have to build your teams based on who can generate the most offense. And of course it's unlikely he'll be as good as Jokic (on offense), but he might be the 7th best prospect in this draft. If he's Sabonis, that's still the 7th best pick in almost every draft.

[Dalek]

Toronto has a real development opportunity while Pascal is out. It is not a huge change but if you have a guy like Kai Jones or Alperen Sengun or Usman Garuba come in looking good they might be given more time to be experimented with.

Is Sengun a true offensive hub? Without P he can play more in the high post or elbow offense and show his passing and scoring touch.

Can Kai be that rim running big with some creation opportunities?

Can Garuba play out of the short roll?

I like Kai the most out of the bunch because he is so skilled and the best athlete but not given a good opportunity at Texas. This opening might allow him to play a lot of PF and demo his skill through camp and play with starters more.

Basically anyone of these guys has just been given more time to play with our best players and experiment with what they can do. I think we have to go big at this point. The talent is there and now the opening too.

On paper i understand ur point but siakam is slated to either be ready by the start of the season or miss very little time. The rookies will barely have their bearing by the time siakam returns, let alone allowing the Raptors to be experimental and developmental by then.

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I was reading about Paul George who had surgery on his labrum and he had surgery in June and ended up returning in mid-November. He did have both shoulders operated on, but the return was slow for him and he certainly didn't have a camp or exhibition to play through.

I don't know how big a window these rookies could get, but Siakam likes to operate in close and mid-range. Sengun suddenly would have a bit of space to operate even if it is pre-season and camp. I just wonder with the Siakam question, does Toronto lean towards a big that can produce. It seems like there is more pressure now to fill that area which struggled last season.

[Bruin]

Not sure if this has already been posted but was a great listen. Kids got a great character and approach to things

Watch on YouTube

[PhilBlackson]

Not sure if this has already been posted but was a great listen. Kids got a great character and approach to things

Watch on YouTube

Just tell us the time he says he wants to play for TOR lol

[Bruin]

Not sure if this has already been posted but was a great listen. Kids got a great character and approach to things

Watch on YouTube

Just tell us the time he says he wants to play for TOR lol

Well there was a part where he was talking about wanting to be in the playoffs in his rookie year and JJ was saying he’s probably not gonna be in the playoffs regardless of who drafts him. Cade probably knows were the best chance at him being in the playoffs next year so there’s that least lol

[Dalek]

This was the same troubling argument as the guy that posted about Lillard torching Jokic. Phoenix was just much better than Denver, who were missing their 2nd best player. If Jokic can survive Lillard, Mitchell and Kawhi than you shouldn't put too much stock into CP3 hunting him down.

And who said Sengun can't protect the rim? His 5.85% block rate is more than solid. For reference Sabonis put up a %2.7 rate as a sophomore at Gonzaga. So, don't think of him as Sabonis defensively, or Jokic, for that matter, when he has some potential to be better. Also, I wouldn't not draft Jokic. Would you pass on him? At #7? He just won the MVP.

But Lillard/Portland did torch him. They put up a 119.5 ORTG which would lead the league; Denver was just able to pick apart Portlands equally swiss cheese defense. Jokic and defending at a high enough level to win is a long term problem for Denver and im not sure how anyone can see it any other way.

He's a slow big in a league where guards are capable of scoring from 30+ feet out; it's gonna be ridiculously difficult for Denver to work around that, and he's an MVP offensive player. Sengun almost certainly wont be as good and you really do have to consider how good you can be with a relatively slow big in the modern league

Not to mention Sengun is considerably shorter and not as long.

For sure he is not a seven footer, but he is much quicker than Jokic and generally gives a ton of effort to block shots (plus a great steal%) and he attacks the glass. He is just a super skilled kid who has time to add to his game. He'd be a PF/C like:

Julius Randle (6'9)
Domantas Sabonis (6'10)
Kevin Love (6'9)
John Collins (6'9)

I think given his good FT% he will end up a decent three point shooter. If his defense is not good enough, all you have to do to is add a shot blocker like Capela or Noel or Myles Turner. Since you can't draft an elite rim protector C like that this year, Sengun is not a bad gamble because Toronto lacks physicality.

I just think his motor, footwork, passing and scoring skill are pretty advanced for his age. It is kind of hard to just say we know who he is in the NBA because I think he is a better defender than Randle or Sabonis and he seems to have the confidence/IT factor to be an impact guy.

I do like Kai Jones as more obvious NBA fit, but he also will take longer and might not become the player we want him to be. I think Sengun right away will throw his body around and add some physicality and skill that was missing since we lost Gasol. To me he is a low risk guy that immediately can be a bench big.

[Dalek]

Not sure if this has already been posted but was a great listen. Kids got a great character and approach to things

Watch on YouTube

Just tell us the time he says he wants to play for TOR lol

Cade and Houston makes sense. Texas is his home state and it gives Houston back a franchise player after losing Harden. Houston is a big market so I could see it working out. What is funny is that Houston has a 47.9-percent chance of getting the fifth pick. If they drop to fifth in the lottery they end up with the 18 pick due to a previous pick swap trade. OKC would get the 5th pick which would be hilarious and sad for the NBA.

[VanWest82]

Per 36

Cade (ncaa): 20 and 6, 1.6 STL, 40.0% from three, high caliber
Bargs (int'l): 18 and 7, 1.7 STL, 40.0% from three, high caliper

I don't know guys...

[raptor jesus]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

I don't follow this logic. One of the best midrange players of all-time goes off against a drop center in Jokic, and somehow that's an indictment on Sengun's defence? Why is Sengun comparable to Jokic here? Because he's from Europe? I'm not saying he'll be good or bad, I just don't understand drawing conclusions based on seemingly arbitrary comparisons.

[bon]

Per 36

Cade (ncaa): 20 and 6, 1.6 STL, 40.0% from three, high caliber
Bargs (int'l): 18 and 7, 1.7 STL, 40.0% from three, high caliper

I don't know guys...

[tdotrep2]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

I don't follow this logic. One of the best midrange players of all-time goes off against a drop center in Jokic, and somehow that's an indictment on Sengun's defence? Why is Sengun comparable to Jokic here? Because he's from Europe? I'm not saying he'll be good or bad, I just don't understand drawing conclusions based on seemingly arbitrary comparisons.

because hes a euro and looks pudgy, but jokic is one of the slowest centers in the nba and bad on defense. They arent the same player, people just assume ****

[Marty_Budda]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

I don't follow this logic. One of the best midrange players of all-time goes off against a drop center in Jokic, and somehow that's an indictment on Sengun's defence? Why is Sengun comparable to Jokic here? Because he's from Europe? I'm not saying he'll be good or bad, I just don't understand drawing conclusions based on seemingly arbitrary comparisons.

Lmao right?!

We watched luka and now Mitchell destroy Kawhi and PG13 - supposedly elite perimeter defenders. Guess we should refrain from drafting a wing player as well. Or maybe some guys are just elite offensive players and can’t be stopped.

There’s quite a few guys I’d pick before Sengun but this logic is ridiculous.

[gojoorange]

This is a good deep dive on Corey Kispert.

Watch on YouTube

[WuTang_CMB]

This is a good deep dive on Corey Kispert.

Watch on YouTube

Not for us

[canada_dry]

Josh Giddey will be playing exhibition games for Australia against the US and other teams in July. He is the only lotto prospect we'll get to see pre draft play against decent competition (exhibition game caveats and all).

U mean other than Sengun literally playing meaningful basketball games against canada and Nurse for Olympic qualifiers, right?

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[canada_dry]

Just watched 36 year old CP3 torch Jokic in the PnR over and over because he’s slow footed and can’t switch. Jokic is probably better than Sengun will ever be and he got hunted every possession.

A non rim protecting big is always a big no from me. Even if he’s as good as Sabonis, putting Sabonis at the 5 now for us doesn’t change our ceiling

The "just watched ____ in the playoffs. We need to draft / need to stay away from ____ because hes obviously the same!!!"

Posts are so lame. Happens every single night tho .

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[canada_dry]

Newsflash: a majority of fans in here were AGAINST trying to sign Gobert this season. He only just completed the most dominant defensive season maybe of all time if u look at advanced stats and is continuing that Throughout the playoffs. No need for him tho. Nah.

Now u guys are begging for that type of player while insisting on overlooking a rral talent like sengun.

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[VanWest82]

I like Kispert as a trade back candidate depending what else we can get. He isn't just a good shooter - he's a great shooter who can hit from well behind the line. And he can shoot off the dribble a bit. I'd probably rather go with Sengun or Giddey in that 10-15 range but Kispert will be a solid pro for sure.