Official Scottie Barnes Thread

[Los_29]

Nothing embarrassing about it. People want to force a lineup on themselves that's not going to work. Siakam at the 5 is a disaster, Barnes is not a 1 or 2 neither is OG.

But maybe you can show your lineup with Siakam and how it's going to work?

This is one of the biggest problems on here. People argue based too much on their feelings as opposed to actual facts. You think it’s a disaster because you want it to be a disaster because you don’t like Pascal. But the numbers suggest otherwise.

Pascal is one of our best players and the stats overwhelmingly go against your claims.

Actually I don't hate him. What I'm questioning is his longterm fit with the Raptors and how our starting lineup would even look like and I very much question that it's going to work out.

Now if you could show me how we are going to play longterm, how the lineup would look like and how it's a good fit despite the lack of spacing, then yes.

Pascal is a good player that's not the point.

Although a player with RAPTOR scores of
0.7 in 2019/20
0.4 in 2020/21
-1.5 in 2021/22

is very much not worth the money he is making.

Another example of cherry picking stats. Pascal has played 17 games this year. First few of those games on a minutes restriction. Nearly all of those games without OG and some without GTJ and one without FVV.

Let’s wait to see how this lineup does first because we haven’t seen them together yet.

Scottie is only going to get better as a shooter so our spacing will not be an issue. OG, GTJ and FVV are very good 3pt shooters. Pascal is likely in that 30-35% range and if Barnes can stay in that range and improve on even more volume then it’s going to be a very tough lineup to defend against.

[Madhouse]

This is one of the biggest problems on here. People argue based too much on their feelings as opposed to actual facts. You think it’s a disaster because you want it to be a disaster because you don’t like Pascal. But the numbers suggest otherwise.

Pascal is one of our best players and the stats overwhelmingly go against your claims.

Actually I don't hate him. What I'm questioning is his longterm fit with the Raptors and how our starting lineup would even look like and I very much question that it's going to work out.

Now if you could show me how we are going to play longterm, how the lineup would look like and how it's a good fit despite the lack of spacing, then yes.

Pascal is a good player that's not the point.

Although a player with RAPTOR scores of
0.7 in 2019/20
0.4 in 2020/21
-1.5 in 2021/22

is very much not worth the money he is making.

Another example of cherry picking stats. Pascal has played 17 games this year. First few of those games on a minutes restriction. Nearly all of those games without OG and some without GTJ and one without FVV.

Let’s wait to see how this lineup does first because we haven’t seen them together yet.

Scottie is only going to get better as a shooter so our spacing will not be an issue. OG, GTJ and FVV are very good 3pt shooters. Pascal is likely in that 30-35% range and if Barnes can stay in that range and improve on even more volume then it’s going to be a very tough lineup to defend against.

which lineup? The lineup without a real Center and Siakam at the 5?

[Johnny Bball]

Actually I don't hate him. What I'm questioning is his longterm fit with the Raptors and how our starting lineup would even look like and I very much question that it's going to work out.

Now if you could show me how we are going to play longterm, how the lineup would look like and how it's a good fit despite the lack of spacing, then yes.

Pascal is a good player that's not the point.

Although a player with RAPTOR scores of
0.7 in 2019/20
0.4 in 2020/21
-1.5 in 2021/22

is very much not worth the money he is making.

Another example of cherry picking stats. Pascal has played 17 games this year. First few of those games on a minutes restriction. Nearly all of those games without OG and some without GTJ and one without FVV.

Let’s wait to see how this lineup does first because we haven’t seen them together yet.

Scottie is only going to get better as a shooter so our spacing will not be an issue. OG, GTJ and FVV are very good 3pt shooters. Pascal is likely in that 30-35% range and if Barnes can stay in that range and improve on even more volume then it’s going to be a very tough lineup to defend against.

which lineup? The lineup without a real Center and Siakam at the 5?

Why do you guys keep insisting on an real (old school) centre when the entire league is moving away from it. Give me 3 good reasons. The last 7 or so championships have all played small ball centres a ton of the time, and in crunch time. We moved on from those terrible line-ups when we traded away JV.

Its not even our biggest weakness, backup point guard is.

[youngRAPZ]

Another example of cherry picking stats. Pascal has played 17 games this year. First few of those games on a minutes restriction. Nearly all of those games without OG and some without GTJ and one without FVV.

Let’s wait to see how this lineup does first because we haven’t seen them together yet.

Scottie is only going to get better as a shooter so our spacing will not be an issue. OG, GTJ and FVV are very good 3pt shooters. Pascal is likely in that 30-35% range and if Barnes can stay in that range and improve on even more volume then it’s going to be a very tough lineup to defend against.

which lineup? The lineup without a real Center and Siakam at the 5?

Why do you guys keep insisting on an real (old school) centre when the entire league is moving away from it. Give me 3 good reasons. The last y or so championships have all played small ball centres a ton of the time, and in crunch time. We moved on from those terrible line-ups when we traded away JV.

Its not even our biggest weakness, backup point guard is.

Factz. I believe the raptors need a big C on the roster for specific matchups but it doesn’t have to be a starter and there’s so many different lineups the raptors can throw out there.

I just find it funny these psychics can tell Siakam at the 5 won’t work when we haven’t even seen the lineup play a full game together let alone 5 or 10.

Give me a
Pascal
Barnes
Og
Trent
VV

With a healthy Yuta Birch and Precious and if we get a decent backup pg or just give Dragic a chance to earn some of that 19M I bet you that lineup starts to string together some wins.


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[ConSarnit]

Nothing embarrassing about it. People want to force a lineup on themselves that's not going to work. Siakam at the 5 is a disaster, Barnes is not a 1 or 2 neither is OG.

But maybe you can show your lineup with Siakam and how it's going to work?

This is one of the biggest problems on here. People argue based too much on their feelings as opposed to actual facts. You think it’s a disaster because you want it to be a disaster because you don’t like Pascal. But the numbers suggest otherwise.

Pascal is one of our best players and the stats overwhelmingly go against your claims.

Actually I don't hate him. What I'm questioning is his longterm fit with the Raptors and how our starting lineup would even look like and I very much question that it's going to work out.

Now if you could show me how we are going to play longterm, how the lineup would look like and how it's a good fit despite the lack of spacing, then yes.

Pascal is a good player that's not the point.

Although a player with RAPTOR scores of
0.7 in 2019/20
0.4 in 2020/21
-1.5 in 2021/22

is very much not worth the money he is making.

You said "Siakam at the 5 is a disaster". I showed you in an earlier post that Siakam at C (FVV-GTJ-OG-SB-PS) is +1 net rating in 50 minutes. This is a limited sample size but the offense was bad and the defense was very good. Ways to get better:

Barnes: improves his range
OG: improves his playmaking
Trent: actually passes the ball every so often
Siakam: 3pt shooting improves closer to 34/35% (not out of the realm of possibility given his past)

We're starting 2 guys 22 and under. One is a rookie who should get much better. Our vets (Siakam, FVV) are also only 27, an age where they are unlikely to decline any time soon.

You claim Siakam pounds the rock too much. OG and Trent are far worse creating offense or moving the ball. Where are your calls for their heads?

We are severely lacking evidence to conclude the Siakam at C is a failure. In fact, any limited evidence has shown it's worked out ok so far. I have questions about Siakam at C too but I can look at stats and at least say "ok, I guess it hasn't really been that bad after all."

You're providing nothing outside of "Siakam is the problem". If you want people to take you seriously don't use hyperbolic words like "disaster" when the evidence doesn't back it up. Also don't ask people to do your work for you. If you think Siakam at C is a "disaster", show us how you got there.

[Dude-niagara]

The only stan here is you for Barnes. Siakam has played well this year with the exception of his three point shooting, and you just don't care to see it or can't. What choke job? He's not even playing lately. .

I guess you missed those second halves, choked late in Bucks win and Nets loss. Also missed shot late in Knicks game that if Randle makes open 3 we lose again. He is very good when we play the Kings, I will give him that. 3 games against Celtics this season, only game we won was with Siakam not playing. Beat Pacers twice without Siakam not playing and lost to them with him playing.

End of the day, everyone sees that the Raptors when healthy need to start a true 5. That leaves one of OG/SIAKAM or Trent going to the bench. It's a problem not just this season but going into next season, overlap issues. Siakam also insists on having the ball in his hands which really takes away from Scottie handling the ball. As for choking, I guess you missed the Celtics series and the dozen times he choked games late last season as the Raptors top option. He is more effective as a #2 or maybe a 2B and I don't see him accepting that lesser role with the Raptors. Time to move on and this is not about getting Scottie more touches, it about him developing more this season and getting ready to be a top option starting next season. Scottie still has plenty of areas to improve on, but he showed flashes and we just need to see him more involved and not just hanging out at the 3 point line while Siakam goes ISO which is great if we played the Kings every night.

Context bro. Context.

1. We are 5-2 in the last seven games that Siakam started and realistically could be 7-0 in that stretch if Fred doesn’t make some awful decisions against BKN and we don’t throw away the OKC game.

2. What else was happening when Siakam came back? Weren’t we on the longest road trip of the season? We also had one or no centre’s available during that time. Oh we also lost one of our better rebounders and defenders in OG. And Yuta was either not playing or getting reacclimated. Boucher was working his way back (and has been mostly bad all year). But let’s put all the blame on Siakam.

3. Siakam missed training camp and had no preseason. Maybe he was fading in second halves because he wasn’t in game shape yet?

4. Siakam, interestingly enough, was one of the most efficient clutch players in the league in 2020 before the league shut down for covid. Go look it up if you think I’m lying. Also, Siakam has consistently been making winning plays beyond shot making for us this year in the clutch once he has gotten into shape.

5. Siakam has been quite a good distributor over the last ten games or so.

I actually think that if Siakam’s three ball starts to fall at around 36% again that he becomes a top 20 player in the league with the way the rest of his game has evolved.

Yeah, I get that Siakam is old in chronological years but he’s still developing. This year has made me feel optimistic about him in that he’s clearly dedicated to the intangibles this year and not thinking being a good player means just scoring a lot. He’s shown some flashes this year that there’s one more level for him to get to and that level has looked really good. He still has to work out the shot selection and let the ball stick a little less, but I can’t find anything else about him to be mad about, unless you want to be mad that he’s not shooting the three well.

Otherwise you’re just being mad at Pascal for being out of shape and working his way back while a bunch of other important pieces were out or working their way back at the same time.

We lose to both Bucks and Knicks if Randle from Knicks and Pat.C from Bucks make last sec 3's both games Siakam chocked plays shots late. He lead the team tp 27 wins last season, he chocked almost every late game situation last season and we have a losing record this season with him started 6-11. Yet you highlight the 5-2 and leave out endings including Giannis missing the Bucks game. This is Scottie thread and Siakam stands in the way of Scottie moving into a top option role. He needs to be traded

[LoveMyRaps]

Watch on YouTube

[HiJiNX]

I guess you missed those second halves, choked late in Bucks win and Nets loss. Also missed shot late in Knicks game that if Randle makes open 3 we lose again. He is very good when we play the Kings, I will give him that. 3 games against Celtics this season, only game we won was with Siakam not playing. Beat Pacers twice without Siakam not playing and lost to them with him playing.

End of the day, everyone sees that the Raptors when healthy need to start a true 5. That leaves one of OG/SIAKAM or Trent going to the bench. It's a problem not just this season but going into next season, overlap issues. Siakam also insists on having the ball in his hands which really takes away from Scottie handling the ball. As for choking, I guess you missed the Celtics series and the dozen times he choked games late last season as the Raptors top option. He is more effective as a #2 or maybe a 2B and I don't see him accepting that lesser role with the Raptors. Time to move on and this is not about getting Scottie more touches, it about him developing more this season and getting ready to be a top option starting next season. Scottie still has plenty of areas to improve on, but he showed flashes and we just need to see him more involved and not just hanging out at the 3 point line while Siakam goes ISO which is great if we played the Kings every night.

Context bro. Context.

1. We are 5-2 in the last seven games that Siakam started and realistically could be 7-0 in that stretch if Fred doesn’t make some awful decisions against BKN and we don’t throw away the OKC game.

2. What else was happening when Siakam came back? Weren’t we on the longest road trip of the season? We also had one or no centre’s available during that time. Oh we also lost one of our better rebounders and defenders in OG. And Yuta was either not playing or getting reacclimated. Boucher was working his way back (and has been mostly bad all year). But let’s put all the blame on Siakam.

3. Siakam missed training camp and had no preseason. Maybe he was fading in second halves because he wasn’t in game shape yet?

4. Siakam, interestingly enough, was one of the most efficient clutch players in the league in 2020 before the league shut down for covid. Go look it up if you think I’m lying. Also, Siakam has consistently been making winning plays beyond shot making for us this year in the clutch once he has gotten into shape.

5. Siakam has been quite a good distributor over the last ten games or so.

I actually think that if Siakam’s three ball starts to fall at around 36% again that he becomes a top 20 player in the league with the way the rest of his game has evolved.

Yeah, I get that Siakam is old in chronological years but he’s still developing. This year has made me feel optimistic about him in that he’s clearly dedicated to the intangibles this year and not thinking being a good player means just scoring a lot. He’s shown some flashes this year that there’s one more level for him to get to and that level has looked really good. He still has to work out the shot selection and let the ball stick a little less, but I can’t find anything else about him to be mad about, unless you want to be mad that he’s not shooting the three well.

Otherwise you’re just being mad at Pascal for being out of shape and working his way back while a bunch of other important pieces were out or working their way back at the same time.

We lose to both Bucks and Knicks if Randle from Knicks and Pat.C from Bucks make last sec 3's both games Siakam chocked plays shots late. He lead the team tp 27 wins last season, he chocked almost every late game situation last season and we have a losing record this season with him started 6-11. Yet you highlight the 5-2 and leave out endings including Giannis missing the Bucks game. This is Scottie thread and Siakam stands in the way of Scottie moving into a top option role. He needs to be traded

Siakam sucks because he couldn’t raise the level of the team while coming back from surgery, without a training camp, and with a bunch of key contributors missing on a long west coast trip? That’s your argument?

Okay. Haha.

[Johnny Bball]

I guess you missed those second halves, choked late in Bucks win and Nets loss. Also missed shot late in Knicks game that if Randle makes open 3 we lose again. He is very good when we play the Kings, I will give him that. 3 games against Celtics this season, only game we won was with Siakam not playing. Beat Pacers twice without Siakam not playing and lost to them with him playing.

End of the day, everyone sees that the Raptors when healthy need to start a true 5. That leaves one of OG/SIAKAM or Trent going to the bench. It's a problem not just this season but going into next season, overlap issues. Siakam also insists on having the ball in his hands which really takes away from Scottie handling the ball. As for choking, I guess you missed the Celtics series and the dozen times he choked games late last season as the Raptors top option. He is more effective as a #2 or maybe a 2B and I don't see him accepting that lesser role with the Raptors. Time to move on and this is not about getting Scottie more touches, it about him developing more this season and getting ready to be a top option starting next season. Scottie still has plenty of areas to improve on, but he showed flashes and we just need to see him more involved and not just hanging out at the 3 point line while Siakam goes ISO which is great if we played the Kings every night.

Context bro. Context.

1. We are 5-2 in the last seven games that Siakam started and realistically could be 7-0 in that stretch if Fred doesn’t make some awful decisions against BKN and we don’t throw away the OKC game.

2. What else was happening when Siakam came back? Weren’t we on the longest road trip of the season? We also had one or no centre’s available during that time. Oh we also lost one of our better rebounders and defenders in OG. And Yuta was either not playing or getting reacclimated. Boucher was working his way back (and has been mostly bad all year). But let’s put all the blame on Siakam.

3. Siakam missed training camp and had no preseason. Maybe he was fading in second halves because he wasn’t in game shape yet?

4. Siakam, interestingly enough, was one of the most efficient clutch players in the league in 2020 before the league shut down for covid. Go look it up if you think I’m lying. Also, Siakam has consistently been making winning plays beyond shot making for us this year in the clutch once he has gotten into shape.

5. Siakam has been quite a good distributor over the last ten games or so.

I actually think that if Siakam’s three ball starts to fall at around 36% again that he becomes a top 20 player in the league with the way the rest of his game has evolved.

Yeah, I get that Siakam is old in chronological years but he’s still developing. This year has made me feel optimistic about him in that he’s clearly dedicated to the intangibles this year and not thinking being a good player means just scoring a lot. He’s shown some flashes this year that there’s one more level for him to get to and that level has looked really good. He still has to work out the shot selection and let the ball stick a little less, but I can’t find anything else about him to be mad about, unless you want to be mad that he’s not shooting the three well.

Otherwise you’re just being mad at Pascal for being out of shape and working his way back while a bunch of other important pieces were out or working their way back at the same time.

We lose to both Bucks and Knicks if Randle from Knicks and Pat.C from Bucks make last sec 3's both games Siakam chocked plays shots late. He lead the team tp 27 wins last season, he chocked almost every late game situation last season and we have a losing record this season with him started 6-11. Yet you highlight the 5-2 and leave out endings including Giannis missing the Bucks game. This is Scottie thread and Siakam stands in the way of Scottie moving into a top option role. He needs to be traded

So Siakam also sucks because two others guys choked on the opposing team and missed? You gotta read this to beleive it. What a concept, what a fanbase.

[will]

Scottie Barnes!

[Madhouse]

NBA history:

rookies averaging 15/8/3 with less usage than Barnes. None

https://stathead.com/tiny/yxQxs

rookies averaging 15/8/3 with a 55% TS%

https://stathead.com/tiny/AQnmP

rookies averaging 15/8/3 with less than 2 turnovers.

https://stathead.com/tiny/EeCWX

This is the best I've seen so far though. Rookies averaging at least Scottie Barnes' averages in points, rebounds and assists with a 55% TS%.

https://stathead.com/tiny/QrvH2

[youngRAPZ]

I guess you missed those second halves, choked late in Bucks win and Nets loss. Also missed shot late in Knicks game that if Randle makes open 3 we lose again. He is very good when we play the Kings, I will give him that. 3 games against Celtics this season, only game we won was with Siakam not playing. Beat Pacers twice without Siakam not playing and lost to them with him playing.

End of the day, everyone sees that the Raptors when healthy need to start a true 5. That leaves one of OG/SIAKAM or Trent going to the bench. It's a problem not just this season but going into next season, overlap issues. Siakam also insists on having the ball in his hands which really takes away from Scottie handling the ball. As for choking, I guess you missed the Celtics series and the dozen times he choked games late last season as the Raptors top option. He is more effective as a #2 or maybe a 2B and I don't see him accepting that lesser role with the Raptors. Time to move on and this is not about getting Scottie more touches, it about him developing more this season and getting ready to be a top option starting next season. Scottie still has plenty of areas to improve on, but he showed flashes and we just need to see him more involved and not just hanging out at the 3 point line while Siakam goes ISO which is great if we played the Kings every night.

Context bro. Context.

1. We are 5-2 in the last seven games that Siakam started and realistically could be 7-0 in that stretch if Fred doesn’t make some awful decisions against BKN and we don’t throw away the OKC game.

2. What else was happening when Siakam came back? Weren’t we on the longest road trip of the season? We also had one or no centre’s available during that time. Oh we also lost one of our better rebounders and defenders in OG. And Yuta was either not playing or getting reacclimated. Boucher was working his way back (and has been mostly bad all year). But let’s put all the blame on Siakam.

3. Siakam missed training camp and had no preseason. Maybe he was fading in second halves because he wasn’t in game shape yet?

4. Siakam, interestingly enough, was one of the most efficient clutch players in the league in 2020 before the league shut down for covid. Go look it up if you think I’m lying. Also, Siakam has consistently been making winning plays beyond shot making for us this year in the clutch once he has gotten into shape.

5. Siakam has been quite a good distributor over the last ten games or so.

I actually think that if Siakam’s three ball starts to fall at around 36% again that he becomes a top 20 player in the league with the way the rest of his game has evolved.

Yeah, I get that Siakam is old in chronological years but he’s still developing. This year has made me feel optimistic about him in that he’s clearly dedicated to the intangibles this year and not thinking being a good player means just scoring a lot. He’s shown some flashes this year that there’s one more level for him to get to and that level has looked really good. He still has to work out the shot selection and let the ball stick a little less, but I can’t find anything else about him to be mad about, unless you want to be mad that he’s not shooting the three well.

Otherwise you’re just being mad at Pascal for being out of shape and working his way back while a bunch of other important pieces were out or working their way back at the same time.

We lose to both Bucks and Knicks if Randle from Knicks and Pat.C from Bucks make last sec 3's both games Siakam chocked plays shots late. He lead the team tp 27 wins last season, he chocked almost every late game situation last season and we have a losing record this season with him started 6-11. Yet you highlight the 5-2 and leave out endings including Giannis missing the Bucks game. This is Scottie thread and Siakam stands in the way of Scottie moving into a top option role. He needs to be traded

Lol you can tell who became a fan of basketball because of the championship year. Stick to hockey my guy.


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[LoveMyRaps]

Unleash Scottie!!!

Seeing these other rookies ball out got me gassed for his return. I can already foresee a monster game from him in his return to the lineup... which hopefully is on Friday.

[God Squad]

I miss him already. Is this "Staning"?

[Sidthekid87]

Franz is **** NASTY. 6'10 and legit moves like he's 6'3, he's got as beautiful game to watch. This draft really looking like an all timer.

[Raps in 4]

Wagner is so much better than Suggs. Nobody saw that coming (obviously not even the Magic considering where they picked them). Good for him and the Magic though. They deserved a good pick from this draft.

[Madhouse]

I miss him already. Is this "Staning"?

According to johan, yes.

[Vampirate]

Wagner is so much better than Suggs. Nobody saw that coming (obviously not even the Magic considering where they picked them). Good for him and the Magic though. They deserved a good pick from this draft.

Wagner literally has 5 inches over Suggs, tbh Wagner's FG% should be higher than it is considering he basically has the height of a center.

[Madhouse]

Wagner is so much better than Suggs. Nobody saw that coming (obviously not even the Magic considering where they picked them). Good for him and the Magic though. They deserved a good pick from this draft.

good chance Suggs ends up the worst player out of the top 8. He is good on defense though.

[will]

Scottie is dope.