2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Rapsfan07]

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This kid is insane.

Looks like he'll be a good microwave scorer in the league. Think Crawford or Lou Will

[ATLTimekeeper]

Cissoko is a decent player but this Top 5 talk is really crazy yall.

I'd take a chance on him if we move down but outside of his flashy passing, size and physical tools, he really isn't that impressive. He is not a reliable shooter from anywhere on the floor and cannot create his own offense.

If we move back and Bufkin, Jones and Podz are unavailable, sure I'd give him a look. But not in the lottery, much less the Top 5.

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

[Psubs]

I was bored tonight so I went over the last 10 drafts to see how they fared. I came to this conclusion:

There’s a ridiculous amount of busts in the lottery and there seems to always be somebody picked in the 20’s that should have gone in the top 5. The NBA Draft in general is mostly crap compared to other sports. I don’t know why its so hard to scout college basketball but even the best scouts in the league seem to get it wrong all the time.

My point is, don’t get too caught up on the mock drafts because they are probably way off in terms of how this draft will actually look 5 years from now.

Maybe the non-conference games vs crap teams has players have inflated numbers like OTE level competition?

Maybe just look at conference play splits. I guess can directly compare Hendricks for Jarace head to head with 2 games and that Hendricks had a much weaker team yet he outplayed him.

Also maybe the transition from the college 3 to the NBA 3 doesn't bode well for a lot of prospects, thus you see a lot players like Terquavion shoot from any distance.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yeah, I really like him too but he's not going top 10 lol.

To me he's like Kuminga with better handles and way better passing. Or maybe he's like a Franz Wagner type prospect with worse FT shooting.

I think this is doing a disservice to Franz. Franz is a bonafide 3 level scorer lol, Sidy is the opposite of that.

Sidy honestly reminds me of a guard version of Scottie but with less talent.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

[HumbleRen]

To me he's like Kuminga with better handles and way better passing. Or maybe he's like a Franz Wagner type prospect with worse FT shooting.

I think this is doing a disservice to Franz. Franz is a bonafide 3 level scorer lol, Sidy is the opposite of that.

Sidy honestly reminds me of a guard version of Scottie but with less talent.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Eh, not really lol. They're both connectors but that's about where the comparisons stop at.

[Spates]

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This kid is insane.

I was posting about him earlier in the season when I thought the pick would be in the 20's. He'll like a Jordan Poole but not sure if he should be starting on a championship team, maybe more like a Jordan Clarkson.

It's not a good sign that he shot under 40% in two consecutive seasons in the NCAA. That's a big red flag.

Ooof. Yeah, not a good sign. It's hard to scout with YouTube....

[OakleyDokely]

I was posting about him earlier in the season when I thought the pick would be in the 20's. He'll like a Jordan Poole but not sure if he should be starting on a championship team, maybe more like a Jordan Clarkson.

It's not a good sign that he shot under 40% in two consecutive seasons in the NCAA. That's a big red flag.

Ooof. Yeah, not a good sign. It's hard to scout with YouTube....

with youtube, everyone can look like a future star, well except for Michael Scott.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think this is doing a disservice to Franz. Franz is a bonafide 3 level scorer lol, Sidy is the opposite of that.

Sidy honestly reminds me of a guard version of Scottie but with less talent.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Eh, not really lol. They're both connectors but that's about where the comparisons stop at.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan.

[Psubs]

Cissoko is a decent player but this Top 5 talk is really crazy yall.

I'd take a chance on him if we move down but outside of his flashy passing, size and physical tools, he really isn't that impressive. He is not a reliable shooter from anywhere on the floor and cannot create his own offense.

If we move back and Bufkin, Jones and Podz are unavailable, sure I'd give him a look. But not in the lottery, much less the Top 5.

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

His form is decent and less mechanical than OG. I'm sure that Cissoko will be able to get high 70% if not over 80.

If Scoot played NCAA he'd be #2 or #3 behind Brandon Miller and maybe his 3pt% would be better than having to shoot from NBA range.

If Leonard Miller were playing against NCAA competition, at minimum, a few spots ahead with Derrick Lively. If he was playing OTE, he'd be putting up 25pts, 15 rebs, 5 ast, 3 stls and 5 blocks per game!

If Cissoko played NCAA, I'd say at least ahead of Kris Murray but why not Cam Whitmore with better playmaking? If you watch tape, what does Cam do much better than Cissoko?

[Rapsfan07]

Cissoko is a decent player but this Top 5 talk is really crazy yall.

I'd take a chance on him if we move down but outside of his flashy passing, size and physical tools, he really isn't that impressive. He is not a reliable shooter from anywhere on the floor and cannot create his own offense.

If we move back and Bufkin, Jones and Podz are unavailable, sure I'd give him a look. But not in the lottery, much less the Top 5.

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

I do. The only player currently mocked in the lotto that I would Cissoko over is Sensabaugh.

Don't get me wrong - I like Cissoko and I think he could have a role at the next level but I'm tired of these long, unskilled players. If we're building around Barnes (who still has a ways to go in his own right), which we should, I don't see the sense in bringing in another player who has the same strengths and weaknesses as he does. Worse actually since Barnes is the more talent one of the two.

So yeah. If he's the best player on the board in a move down situation, sure. But if not, I'm fine with passing on him. The truth is there are better players available than him.

[Rapsfan07]

Cissoko is a decent player but this Top 5 talk is really crazy yall.

I'd take a chance on him if we move down but outside of his flashy passing, size and physical tools, he really isn't that impressive. He is not a reliable shooter from anywhere on the floor and cannot create his own offense.

If we move back and Bufkin, Jones and Podz are unavailable, sure I'd give him a look. But not in the lottery, much less the Top 5.

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

His form is decent and less mechanical than OG. I'm sure that Cissoko will be able to get high 70% if not over 80.

If Scoot played NCAA he'd be #2 or #3 behind Brandon Miller and maybe his 3pt% would be better than having to shoot from NBA range.

If Leonard Miller were playing against NCAA competition, at minimum, a few spots ahead with Derrick Lively. If he was playing OTE, he'd be putting up 25pts, 15 rebs, 5 ast, 3 stls and 5 blocks per game!

If Cissoko played NCAA, I'd say at least ahead of Kris Murray but why not Cam Whitmore with better playmaking? If you watch tape, what does Cam do much better than Cissoko?

Shoot and create for himself. I also think that Whitmore is a better athlete.

[Yallbecrazy]

To me he's like Kuminga with better handles and way better passing. Or maybe he's like a Franz Wagner type prospect with worse FT shooting.

I think this is doing a disservice to Franz. Franz is a bonafide 3 level scorer lol, Sidy is the opposite of that.

Sidy honestly reminds me of a guard version of Scottie but with less talent.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Franz was mostly a 3+D guy who could also pass really well at Michigan. All he was missing was the dribble. He had excellent stocks and decent shooting, okay rebounding, good assists with very few turnovers (3 to 1), and excellent length.

[niQ]

https://www.nbadraft.net/2023-extended-mock-draft-4-0/

13. Toronto: Cam Whitmore 6-7 230 SF Villanova Fr.

Despite not being able to carry Villanova back to their standard NCAA tournament form, it was clear that a healthy Whitmore was impactful when on the floor. Villanova finally found its rhythm down the stretch and the 6-7 freshman wing found his footing as a lottery prospect. He struggles with balance at times, but his shiftiness and burly frame should benefit him at the next level.

Why the Raptors take Whitmore: The Raptors are in a bit of a tough spot with whether to tear things down or go into a rebuild. the real problem with rebuilding is they are not able to add free agents the way other teams can. The other big problem is the drafts following this one appear to be two down drafts with not as much elite talent. So perhaps standing pat and trying to pull off a trade for a Jonathan Kuminga and hitting with their lottery pick on a player like Whitmore or Rupert this year could help get them back on track for contention. Whitmore gives them an athletic wing with the kind of toughness they showed when they had Kahwi, Lowry and Gasol leading the charge.

NBA Comparison: Jae Crowder

TBH, I figured Cam would be drafted before us.

[OakleyDokely]

The guys that really hit recently who were selected around the Raps current draft spot all had solid foundations to build upon. Most of them posted good to elite college level efficiency in their draft years.

D Booker: 47/41/83
D Mitchell: 41/35/80
Z Lavine: 44/38/69
SGA: 48/40/81
Herro: 46/36/93
Haliburton: 50/42/82

If you can't dominate teenagers in the NCAA, it's very unlikely you're going to dominate NBA players, unless you're an outlier.

[Psubs]

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Eh, not really lol. They're both connectors but that's about where the comparisons stop at.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan.

Ya, he was an elite glue-guy that people said he didn't to anything great, but I saw that he did everything above average. I think people saw that his brother was a bust but that's because he's not quick enough and didn't have a variety of other tools. Mo might be able to stick for a few more years like Miles Plumlee.

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The scouting report sounds like for 18 year old Sidy.

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Germany really isn't as talented as the French junior pool so it was harder to judge Franz back then. Franz's shooting stroke looks sweet but he didn't get to shoot that much as Michigan had so many shooters that shot around 40% from 3, which shows he plays within the team. Cissoko also plays within the team, maybe that's why people think he can't create for himself. To me that just means that he's not a selfish player (FVV). Cissoko seems to make the read that's best for the team, not one that will get him paid.

[Psubs]

I think this is doing a disservice to Franz. Franz is a bonafide 3 level scorer lol, Sidy is the opposite of that.

Sidy honestly reminds me of a guard version of Scottie but with less talent.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Franz was mostly a 3+D guy who could also pass really well at Michigan. All he was missing was the dribble. He had excellent stocks and decent shooting, okay rebounding, good assists with very few turnovers (3 to 1), and excellent length.

Outside of Wemby, Scoot and Brandon Miller, this type of player will probably have the most WS over their career.

I want Cason or Cissoko. Hendricks would be okay too but then would definitely have to trade Boucher and maybe Precious for guard help. Can the Raptors trade Precious and Boucher for a filler and a 1st pick to nab Cissoko?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Franz is an outlier. The inconsistency in this thread is astounding. People will talk about one guy with rose coloured glasses on and bash another for the same reasons they love someone else.

[BoyzNTheHood]

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan. Similar role at the lower level.

Franz was mostly a 3+D guy who could also pass really well at Michigan. All he was missing was the dribble. He had excellent stocks and decent shooting, okay rebounding, good assists with very few turnovers (3 to 1), and excellent length.

Outside of Wemby, Scoot and Brandon Miller, this type of player will probably have the most WS over their career.

I want Cason or Cissoko. Hendricks would be okay too but then would definitely have to trade Boucher and maybe Precious for guard help. Can the Raptors trade Precious and Boucher for a filler and a 1st pick to nab Cissoko?

Hendricks or Wallace are dream scenarios. Who gives a crap about Bonehead Boucher?

[Psubs]

Franz is an outlier. The inconsistency in this thread is astounding. People will talk about one guy with rose coloured glasses on and bash another for the same reasons they love someone else.

I saw the talent and the value and wanted him before moving up to #4. I wasn't as sold on Scottie or Sengun in that drafat but I was wrong about them. I think at #4 with Scottie, management saw the Chris Webber type and got it right.

At #8, I saw that Franz could at least be Detlef Schremp and that's okay.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Franz is an outlier. The inconsistency in this thread is astounding. People will talk about one guy with rose coloured glasses on and bash another for the same reasons they love someone else.

I saw the talent and the value and wanted him before moving up to #4. I wasn't as sold on Scottie or Sengun in that drafat but I was wrong about them. I think at #4 with Scottie, management saw the Chris Webber type and got it right.

At #8, I saw that Franz could at least be Detlef Schremp and that's okay.

I was pretty much alone on Scottie in here. There are pages arguing back and forth about him because the Suggs fanboys couldn’t be tamed.

I knew Franz was quality at the time too, but not over Scottie and definitely not a 20ppg scorer in the NBA.