Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[CoachJReturns]

Is it possible that the infatuation with Jamal Murray on this board is fueled by his being a Canadian
more than his actual abilities.

What a novel concept!

It sort of fails to account for the fact that Murray is ranked highly by a lot of American scouting agencies who have no vested interest in his nationality, so there goes that. This isn't Myck Kabongo here where he wasn't ranked anywhere near where people wanted to pick him. Murray is among the top 5 best prospects in the draft at present.

He's also shown some skill in the pick and roll which just happens to be the bread and butter of our most efficient player. But yeah, it's clearly his nationality that matters to us.
Honestly, it's nice that he's a local kid, but I'd want him on this team regardless. We need someone who can handle the ball and shoot. Ross and Demar ain't cutting it.

[T-d0t]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/730424304073117696[/tweet]

1) Ingram
2) Simmons
3) Bender
4) Dunn
5) Brown
6) Murray
7) Poeltl
8) Davis
9) Skal
10) Baldwin
11) Hield
12) Chriss
13) Luwawu
14) Ellenson
15) Prince

Interesting top-15 from Schmitz having Hield dropping out of the top-10 with Brown rising back up to his original range. Also, Deyonta Davis going at 8 is interesting.

Personally, I love Skal at our pick which is where Schmitz has him, and as much as I dislike the idea of Hield I don't think we pass him up if he drops.

Buddy Heild all the way at 11? NOT A CHANCE

[T-d0t]

Is it possible that the infatuation with Jamal Murray on this board is fueled by his being a Canadian
more than his actual abilities.

Him being Canadian is the sweetener, his game is more suited for the NBA.

[BoyzNTheHood]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/730424304073117696[/tweet]

1) Ingram
2) Simmons
3) Bender
4) Dunn
5) Brown
6) Murray
7) Poeltl
8) Davis
9) Skal
10) Baldwin
11) Hield
12) Chriss
13) Luwawu
14) Ellenson
15) Prince

Interesting top-15 from Schmitz having Hield dropping out of the top-10 with Brown rising back up to his original range. Also, Deyonta Davis going at 8 is interesting.

Personally, I love Skal at our pick which is where Schmitz has him, and as much as I dislike the idea of Hield I don't think we pass him up if he drops.

Buddy Heild all the way at 11? NOT A CHANCE

This is his top-15 based on the scouting he's done (the top-15 players from the draft when it's said and done). It's not necessarily a mock since his top-15 is different from the DX mock.

[whatamoron]

Is it possible that the infatuation with Jamal Murray on this board is fueled by his being a Canadian
more than his actual abilities.

What a novel concept!

It sort of fails to account for the fact that Murray is ranked highly by a lot of American scouting agencies who have no vested interest in his nationality, so there goes that. This isn't Myck Kabongo here where he wasn't ranked anywhere near where people wanted to pick him. Murray is among the top 5 best prospects in the draft at present.

I guess I didn't express my opinion clearly enough. I am not questioning Jamal Murray's talents and where he is
projected to be picked on the mock draft boards. What I don't understand is why some posters
feel it is imperative that the Raptors move up at all costs to select him.
There are several players rated above and equal to him both in talent and future development potential.
Why him and not these other players.
The Raptors are doing well fiscally (except for the weak Canadian dollar) do they really need a boost to
their marketing strategy that desperately.

[T-d0t]

Is it possible that the infatuation with Jamal Murray on this board is fueled by his being a Canadian
more than his actual abilities.

What a novel concept!

It sort of fails to account for the fact that Murray is ranked highly by a lot of American scouting agencies who have no vested interest in his nationality, so there goes that. This isn't Myck Kabongo here where he wasn't ranked anywhere near where people wanted to pick him. Murray is among the top 5 best prospects in the draft at present.

I guess I didn't express my opinion clearly enough. I am not questioning Jamal Murray's talents and where he is
projected to be picked on the mock draft boards. What I don't understand is why some posters
feel it is imperative that the Raptors move up at all costs to select him.
There are several players rated above and equal to him both in talent and future development potential.
Why him and not these other players.
The Raptors are doing well fiscally (except for the weak Canadian dollar) do they really need a boost to
their marketing strategy that desperately.

After Ingram and Simmons, I think Murray and Bender are the next best prospects. The thing with Bender is that he played overseas so not much to go on except for the teams that scouted him. With Hield and Dunn, you know what u are getting and Brown is in the next tier.

[BoyzNTheHood]

The tools are there, but the mystery is too great for me to jump on that bandwagon. He could be another Bruno. Plus, he looks like he's 150 pounds soaking wet.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/730470842086338562[/tweet]

[T-d0t]

The tools are there, but the mystery is too great for me to jump on that bandwagon. He could be another Bruno. Plus, he looks like he's 150 pounds soaking wet.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/730470842086338562[/tweet]

Give that man some food!

[BoyzNTheHood]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/730475047882772484[/tweet]

[deeps6x]

If Brown is available Masai needs to take him. He has all the physical tools of a guy like Demar, but better defensive potential. Imagine a guy with elite level athleticism at 19 years old bring developed in a winning team culture. That's how you get a guy like Kawhi.

He wont even be as good as DeRozan. Hes worse prospect than Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow

Yep. I'd rather take a chance on Skal. And I don't like Skal. I think both should be picked OUT of the lottery. Or at least 13th and 14th.

I wouldn't trade Ross for Brown, and I'd trade Ross for any top 10 pick in this draft. I'd love to package #9 with Ross to get Murray.

1. Ingram *
2. Simmons *
3. Bender *
4. Murray *
5. Hield *
6. Dunn
7. Poeltl *
8. Davis *
9. Luwawu *
10. Valentine *
11. Chriss
12. Jackson
13. Sabonis *
14. Korkmaz
15. Skal
16. Ulis
17. Baldwin
18. Zubaz
19. Prince
20. Zizic
21. Brice Johnson *
22. Diamond Stone
23. LeVert
24. Hernangomez *
25. Brembry
26. Cornelie
27. Beasley
28. Qi
29. Cordinier
30. Jones

* = players I'd like to add due to holes on the roster or to replace players in the future.

For example. Poeltl. If we have to lose BB8, this guy is the best C we could pick.

Dunn, Jackson, Baldwin all have decent future starting PG potential. But I don't know that any would be better than Wright or CoJo. They don't have the highest ceilings. I *'d Valentine because he has the size and versatility to play and guard 3 spots. Always useful. I *'d Murray and Hield because I see them as a starter quality SGs with passing ability in the future. I *'d Davis, Sabonis and Johnson because they are the only 3 PFs I'd want in the first round.

I'd be ok with Ben Bentil at #27 if we don't pick up a PF in the lottery. But he really should go around #33.

[Mark_83]

Is it possible that the infatuation with Jamal Murray on this board is fueled by his being a Canadian
more than his actual abilities.

What a novel concept!

It sort of fails to account for the fact that Murray is ranked highly by a lot of American scouting agencies who have no vested interest in his nationality, so there goes that. This isn't Myck Kabongo here where he wasn't ranked anywhere near where people wanted to pick him. Murray is among the top 5 best prospects in the draft at present.

I guess I didn't express my opinion clearly enough. I am not questioning Jamal Murray's talents and where he is
projected to be picked on the mock draft boards. What I don't understand is why some posters
feel it is imperative that the Raptors move up at all costs to select him.
There are several players rated above and equal to him both in talent and future development potential.
Why him and not these other players.
The Raptors are doing well fiscally (except for the weak Canadian dollar) do they really need a boost to
their marketing strategy that desperately.

I think it has more to do with the fact that of the top players in the draft some think Murray is the most attainable. No team is trading the chance to pick Ingram or Simmons, and Bender is likely in that group as well. That leaves guys like Murray, Hield, and Dunn, which given the ubiquity of talented guards in the NBA leaves a slight chance that a team might be willing to move the pick that could be used on them. Out of those three the people who want to trade up for Murray I assume think has the most potential out of the three given his age and skillset to be an impact guy, but that he has enough flaws or question marks at present that a team would be ok moving him for the right package. I think Murray has the potential to be a difference maker given the importance of the 3 point shot in the NBA. His ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor and his BBAL IQ and offensive instincts could make him a really good player. If he can transition to point guard he could be something like a Curry-lite, and if he stays at SG he could be like a Roy/Thompson/Booker hybrid. I'd love to trade up for him but I'm not trading JV to get him for instance. If we're trading from depth assets/picks however, why not.

[Wally West]

Are there any sites/places to watch the combine tomorrow and Friday? I see that it'll be on NBA TV on Saturday and Sunday but NBA TV Canada is only showing day 2 I think it is on Sunday. I'm with Rogers. Absolutely ridiculous that I have the Super Sports Pak but they don't provide ESPN 2 or the American NBA TV.

[Dr Positivity]

I'd be very interested in Zhou Qi with TOR 1st. Thing about him is this isn't just a Darko or Bruno where the only thing is the tools and he's barely played. Zhou has positive numbers backing them up, even if they're CBA numbers. He's been a great player somewhere. He's 1st by far in blks/40 in the CBA, 1st in TS%, 40th in pts/min, 17th in reb, 68th in ast, 52nd in stl. Say we compare the CBA to the D League, both are the wild wild west statistically. If you took those ranks and transcribed it to D League stats, per 40 minutes he would average:

19.3 pts, 2.6 ast, 11.1 reb, 1.5 stl, 6.2 blk, .718 TS%

Even if Zhou Qi is 23 years old this is an interesting prospect because he's blocking shots almost like D League Hassan Whiteside while scoring at an amazing TS. You add that to very interesting tools as having a 7'7 wingspan who was 9 for 15 from 3 this year and hits 75% from the FT line. Possible Zhou Qi comes in and immediately is blocking shots at an elite rate, putting up a good TS% and flashing signs of 3pt potential. That would look like a huge steal in today's NBA game. Like drafting Gobert in the 20s.

By the way the same CBA to D League transcription for 14-15 Mudiay would have given him a statline of

20.4 pts, 7.7 ast, 9.2 reb, 1.9 stl, 0.4 blk, 3.2 TOV, .550 TS%

So while he may be significantly older, Zhou's stats are better.

[gerrit4]

I really like the typical top 7 of this draft - Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Murray, Hield, Brown, Dunn. I'd love to see one of those guys drop to 7 - then we draft and run with it.

[lolwut]

I don't understand how Bender is a consensus #3 pick in this draft. He should be a consensus bust.

It's like when Hasheem Thabeet was a consensus #2 pick in his draft. What exactly did people see that made them think "superstar" instead of "bust"?

[OAKLEY_2]

I don't understand how Bender is a consensus #3 pick in this draft. He should be a consensus bust.

It's like when Hasheem Thabeet was a consensus #2 pick in his draft. What exactly did people see that made them think "superstar" instead of "bust"?

All the measurement things that people around here get silly about.

[Thor23]

Think LAL would go for a Demar and #9 for Clarkson, Nance JR and #3?

That would be my DREAM

Free up capspace this offseason for a middle tier PF....

Lowry/Joseph
Ross/Clarkson
Carroll/Powell
Ppat/Nance JR
JV/Bebe

I'm pretty sure you can't combine a S&T player with a pick. So it would need to be Demar for #3 and filler, and #9 for Clarkson and Nance Jr. I don't see them doing Demar for #3 and filler.

probably not,....but they gotta replace kobe!

[shmoosicle]

I'd be very interested in Zhou Qi with TOR 1st. Thing about him is this isn't just a Darko or Bruno where the only thing is the tools and he's barely played. Zhou has positive numbers backing them up, even if they're CBA numbers. He's been a great player somewhere. He's 1st by far in blks/40 in the CBA, 1st in TS%, 40th in pts/min, 17th in reb, 68th in ast, 52nd in stl. Say we compare the CBA to the D League, both are the wild wild west statistically. If you took those ranks and transcribed it to D League stats, per 40 minutes he would average:

19.3 pts, 2.6 ast, 11.1 reb, 1.5 stl, 6.2 blk, .718 TS%

Even if Zhou Qi is 23 years old this is an interesting prospect because he's blocking shots almost like D League Hassan Whiteside while scoring at an amazing TS. You add that to very interesting tools as having a 7'7 wingspan who was 9 for 15 from 3 this year and hits 75% from the FT line. Possible Zhou Qi comes in and immediately is blocking shots at an elite rate, putting up a good TS% and flashing signs of 3pt potential. That would look like a huge steal in today's NBA game. Like drafting Gobert in the 20s.

By the way the same CBA to D League transcription for 14-15 Mudiay would have given him a statline of

20.4 pts, 7.7 ast, 9.2 reb, 1.9 stl, 0.4 blk, 3.2 TOV, .550 TS%

So while he may be significantly older, Zhou's stats are better.

Mudiay was terrible this year in the NBA though... so that doesn't give me much hope.

[Dr Positivity]

The Bender optimists are seeing a player who has a potential to be a defensive anchor (length, mobility), take 3s and be a passer. Basically the prototype modern PF. But he's a project production wise, and there's a long history of that ending badly for the teams who take them in the lotto. If Draymond is the prototype spacing/defense/passing big, perhaps they should take it as a warning sign that Bender is everything that Draymond was not as a prospect, as Draymond was old, lacking in toolsy-ness but great at basketball and producing

[Troubadour]

My board for the Raptors at #9...
1. Buddy Hield
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Jakob Poeltl
4. Marquese Chriss
5. Timothe Luwawu

#27
1. Zhou Qi
2. Thon Maker
3. Brice Johnson