Thank Nation! Raps Pick 9th - Draft on June 23rd 8pm (Part 6)

UneducatedFan86 · Post #1701 » by **UneducatedFan86** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:24 am

I really wish people would stop comparing the Drummond situation (a potential top 3 pick that drops) to Poeltl. Poeltl might be the BPA at 9, but he was never a consensus top pick that just happened to drop. It would be more like us picking Poeltl over someone like Brown, if he dropped.

Risk101 · Post #1702 » by **Risk101** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:35 am

Double Helix wrote:Have a look at Al Horford's freshmen year numbers. If he needed money desperately coming from the Dominican Republic as well and Billy Donovan hadn't convinced him to stay he might have ended up going who knows where in the first round based on nothing but his HS hype and physical upside but that team would have hit a huge home run. Instead he went back, improved, and became a third overall pick. Skal should have gone back. That's what most do. He didn't. So now it's on scouts to determine if he has the work ethic to make dramatic strides or not.

I remember this same logic recently used on Zach LaVine. The consensus around here seemed to be that because he hadn't done anything he never would and that his upside would be relegated to dunk contests. I'd say he's already showing enough for for optimism he'll go beyond that. Joe Alexander the kid ain't. Some could see he had a nice looking 3 point shot, had a decent handle and an electric first step and figured his game would transition better outside of UCLA. It has. He's started as a bench weapon but you can already see him getting better and better every season. I won't be surprised if he catches up to the older Oladipo within the next couple seasons. Some similar tools there but he has more natural ability. One was a 2nd overall. One was a late Lotto pick. When you gamble on upside sometimes you get a ROI closer to what a higher pick would be in the future. Calipari himself said that if Skal stayed with him for a couple more years he'd probably challenge to be a #1 pick. Skal has talent. I don't know if he'll maximize it in 3-4 years but it won't surprise me if he does.

This argument could be made for Deyonta who shares a similiar build to Horford. Just as quick, if not quicker, and could be a mid-range threat. Not to mention being an absolute beast on the defensive end.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4WQ7Cf0Ht0[/youtube]

Risk101 · Post #1703 » by **Risk101** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:41 am

I also wouldn't be mad if we chose Poetl.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njUK-9JzxIU[/youtube]

Brinbe · Post #1704 » by **Brinbe** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:45 am

blackflash234 wrote:
Brinbe wrote:What's wrong with Jaylen Brown? You're pretty much getting Jason Richardson

Jason Richardson could shoot the 3 and settled for too many threes. Jaylen Brown does not do this. Jaylen Brown's more DeMar DeRozan/a prime Richard Jefferson.

How are you judging a 19-year-old kid? He can definitely develop a shot. He didn't shoot so bad anyway. He can improve upon being a 30% shooter from deep. It happens all the time. It's just about putting the work in.

wegetitin08 · Post #1705 » by **wegetitin08** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:53 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS0zjiVjDds[/youtube]

wouldn't mind Jaylen at our pick

BoyzNTheHood · Post #1706 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:56 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:I really wish people would stop comparing the Drummond situation (a potential top 3 pick that drops) to Poeltl. Poeltl might be the BPA at 9, but he was never a consensus top pick that just happened to drop. It would be more like us picking Poeltl over someone like Brown, if he dropped.

I haven't seen one person in any of our 6 draft threads this year compare Drummond and Poeltl. You're probably mistaking Skal for Poeltl.

Wally West · Post #1707 » by **Wally West** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:58 am

Brinbe wrote:
blackflash234 wrote:
Brinbe wrote:What's wrong with Jaylen Brown? You're pretty much getting Jason Richardson

Jason Richardson could shoot the 3 and settled for too many threes. Jaylen Brown does not do this. Jaylen Brown's more DeMar DeRozan/a prime Richard Jefferson.

How are you judging a 19-year-old kid? He can definitely develop a shot. He didn't shoot so bad anyway. He can improve upon being a 30% shooter from deep. It happens all the time. It's just about putting the work in.

My comps to Jaylen are to a two time all star in DeMar and a guy that lead the Eastern Conference in all star voting before he got hurt in Jefferson. I don't disagree that he can't develop a shot. I think he'll be fine in that aspect. As for 3's, who knows but history doesn't suggest he'll fair well in that aspect and it's not like he was playing power forward ala Kawhi when his 3 point percentage hovered in the high 20's in college having to play against bigger, taller players. I'm not judging him at all. I think Jaylen can be an all star. Just saying that your comp of Jason Richardson who could shoot the 3 who was never an all star in his career isn't a good comp to Jaylen.

UneducatedFan86 · Post #1708 » by **UneducatedFan86** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:59 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:I really wish people would stop comparing the Drummond situation (a potential top 3 pick that drops) to Poeltl. Poeltl might be the BPA at 9, but he was never a consensus top pick that just happened to drop. It would be more like us picking Poeltl over someone like Brown, if he dropped.

I haven't seen one person in any of our 6 draft threads this year compare Drummond and Poeltl. You're probably mistaking Skal for Poeltl.

There are a lot of people saying that we should take Poeltl because a lot of mocks have us taking him at 9 because he's the "BPA" at that spot, and if we didn't draft him because we already have JV, it would be like a Ross over Drummond pick (need over BPA). But that situation was completely different. I think after the top 6, it's a major crap shoot who should go 7-14.

BoyzNTheHood · Post #1709 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:02 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:I really wish people would stop comparing the Drummond situation (a potential top 3 pick that drops) to Poeltl. Poeltl might be the BPA at 9, but he was never a consensus top pick that just happened to drop. It would be more like us picking Poeltl over someone like Brown, if he dropped.

I haven't seen one person in any of our 6 draft threads this year compare Drummond and Poeltl. You're probably mistaking Skal for Poeltl.

There are a lot of people saying that we should take Poeltl because a lot of mocks have us taking him at 9 because he's the "BPA" at that spot, and if we didn't draft him because we already have JV, it would be like a Ross over Drummond pick (need over BPA). But that situation was completely different. I think after the top 6, it's a major crap shoot who should go 7-14.

BPA is relative to individual opinion in a draft scenario. There have been plenty of BPA's who are now MIA. With that said, based on the mocks, I have Poeltl as the BPA at 9 and I'd plug him in beside JV not behind him.

UneducatedFan86 · Post #1710 » by **UneducatedFan86** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:05 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
I haven't seen one person in any of our 6 draft threads this year compare Drummond and Poeltl. You're probably mistaking Skal for Poeltl.

There are a lot of people saying that we should take Poeltl because a lot of mocks have us taking him at 9 because he's the "BPA" at that spot, and if we didn't draft him because we already have JV, it would be like a Ross over Drummond pick (need over BPA). But that situation was completely different. I think after the top 6, it's a major crap shoot who should go 7-14.

BPA is relative to individual opinion in a draft scenario. There have been plenty of BPA's who are now MIA. With that said, based on the mocks, I have Poeltl as the BPA at 9 and I'd plug him in beside JV not behind him.

I'm just not huge on Poeltl. I see the appeal, and I like him a lot more than Sabonis but I don't... just not feeling it with him. Although, I do agree with Skal being a Drummond situation. A top pick that falls because of a bad year and major questions marks. I honestly wouldn't mind taking a risk with him. But it really depends who else is on the board.

DreamTeam09 · Post #1711 » by **DreamTeam09** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:22 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:I really wish people would stop comparing the Drummond situation (a potential top 3 pick that drops) to Poeltl. Poeltl might be the BPA at 9, but he was never a consensus top pick that just happened to drop. It would be more like us picking Poeltl over someone like Brown, if he dropped.

I haven't seen one person in any of our 6 draft threads this year compare Drummond and Poeltl. You're probably mistaking Skal for Poeltl.

There are a lot of people saying that we should take Poeltl because a lot of mocks have us taking him at 9 because he's the "BPA" at that spot, and if we didn't draft him because we already have JV, it would be like a Ross over Drummond pick (need over BPA). But that situation was completely different. I think after the top 6, it's a major crap shoot who should go 7-14.

Agreed. Poeltl makes little sense for us and skipping on him is not a Drummond over Ross or Hoffa over Iggy.

I think at 9 it comes down to

Brown
Chriss
Skal
Korkmaz

fame · Post #1712 » by **fame** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:26 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:
There are a lot of people saying that we should take Poeltl because a lot of mocks have us taking him at 9 because he's the "BPA" at that spot, and if we didn't draft him because we already have JV, it would be like a Ross over Drummond pick (need over BPA). But that situation was completely different. I think after the top 6, it's a major crap shoot who should go 7-14.

BPA is relative to individual opinion in a draft scenario. There have been plenty of BPA's who are now MIA. With that said, based on the mocks, I have Poeltl as the BPA at 9 and I'd plug him in beside JV not behind him.

I'm just not huge on Poeltl. I see the appeal, and I like him a lot more than Sabonis but I don't... just not feeling it with him. Although, I do agree with Skal being a Drummond situation. A top pick that falls because of a bad year and major questions marks. I honestly wouldn't mind taking a risk with him. But it really depends who else is on the board.

Skal has a very scary injury history. Combine that with how frail and thin his body looks, and his inability to stay on the floor (foul issues). I think it's a recipe for disaster.

Syd-TK3 · Post #1713 » by **Syd-TK3** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:34 am

If none of the top 8 fall and Masai is set on korkmaz he needs to trade back for that 15,19 DEN
Grab korkmaz and one of Valentine/Prince then Hernagomaz at 27
I'd prefer to get one of the Top 8 guys but I'd be happy with this scenario

BoyzNTheHood · Post #1714 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:56 am

MikeM wrote:Poeltl is not a PF come on. Cant guard the position. Look at where the league is trending. Poeltl is basically at peak athleticism right now, as he ages foot speed will decrease while the NBA might get smaller.

The NBA is basically a match or mismatch league right now. You cant do anything with players that can be so easily disadvantaged with mismatches.

A guy like Kevin Love is not even useful anymore. Theres a clear direction of where the NBA is going.

I would actually say Skal has lower bust potential because his athleticism + rim protection + jump shooting will guarantee he is a rotation player in the future.

The league is trending towards small ball so everyone has to follow the GSW train? Playing their style isn't going to beat them, it's going to teach you a lesson on how to play their style by getting your butt kicked. You want to be a follower. Champions don't follow, they lead. Defining your own style of basketball and playing it better than anyone else gets you to the top.

Small ball is only a mismatch for the opponent when they're on defense, but on offense a bigger lineup wins every time. Do you honestly believe that Harrison Barnes could defend a true 6'10"-7'0" power forward if teams actually fed the post on him? What allows a team like GSW to play small ball is stupidity by their opponents. I haven't seen a team pound it into the paint once versus GSW during their 2-year dominance. Pounding the paint not only opens up your perimeter players for jumpers, it not only gets you easy buckets, it not only conserves your teams energy for defense, but it also drains the energy of their front court players.

And don't use Kevin Love as an example for why big men aren't useful because he's been putting up empty stats for years. The guy is and always has been useless and overrated. The only reason Cleveland is relevant is because of LeBron James, and without him they're just another bottom feeder.

It's simple, a rebound means you have the ball and if you grab more rebounds you give yourself a better chance to win, right? The team who grabs the most rebounds wins more often than not, and any big man who allows a perimeter player to grab rebounds over him is a joke. Poeltl and Valanciunas are no joke.

Great size beats great small ball every time.

thunderforce · Post #1715 » by **thunderforce** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:39 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
MikeM wrote:Poeltl is not a PF come on. Cant guard the position. Look at where the league is trending. Poeltl is basically at peak athleticism right now, as he ages foot speed will decrease while the NBA might get smaller.

The NBA is basically a match or mismatch league right now. You cant do anything with players that can be so easily disadvantaged with mismatches.

A guy like Kevin Love is not even useful anymore. Theres a clear direction of where the NBA is going.

I would actually say Skal has lower bust potential because his athleticism + rim protection + jump shooting will guarantee he is a rotation player in the future.

The league is trending towards small ball so everyone has to follow the GSW train? Playing their style isn't going to beat them, it's going to teach you a lesson on how to play their style by getting your butt kicked. You want to be a follower. Champions don't follow, they lead. Defining your own style of basketball and playing it better than anyone else gets you to the top.

Small ball is only a mismatch for the opponent when they're on defense, but on offense a bigger lineup wins every time. Do you honestly believe that Harrison Barnes could defend a true 6'10"-7'0" power forward if teams actually fed the post on him? What allows a team like GSW to play small ball is stupidity by their opponents. I haven't seen a team pound it into the paint once versus GSW during their 2-year dominance. Pounding the paint not only opens up your perimeter players for jumpers, it not only gets you easy buckets, it not only conserves your teams energy for defense, but it also drains the energy of their front court players.

And don't use Kevin Love as an example for why big men aren't useful because he's been putting up empty stats for years. The guy is and always has been useless and overrated. The only reason Cleveland is relevant is because of LeBron James, and without him they're just another bottom feeder.

It's simple, a rebound means you have the ball and if you grab more rebounds you give yourself a better chance to win, right? The team who grabs the most rebounds wins more often than not, and any big man who allows a perimeter player to grab rebounds over him is a joke. Poeltl and Valanciunas are no joke.

Great size beats great small ball every time.

Yea but Casey .

Post #1716 » by **Double Helix** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:12 pm

Posted in the Sabonis thread but...

NBADraft.net claims that in the limited workouts he's done Sabonis has regularly hit 70 of 100 NBA 3 pointers. For reference, Jamal Murray broke Boston's record with 79 out of 100 recently.

If true it would mark an extremely encouraging step in his development as a stretch 4 and could help ease some of the questions about what he would be able to provide offensively if he's not long enough to score in the post at the next level on a regular basis.

He probably has better lateral quickness than Ellenson and proved to be far more efficient in college as well. Still, a trade off of offence for defence is expected with Sabonis and only partially offset by his ability to rebound at a high level and make winning plays that don't show up in the box score. Considering he's one of the more NBA-ready in terms of bball IQ to help a playoff team in a bench role this news of his 3 point shooting wouldn't surprise me as a major boost in his stock with the Raptors. Throw in the fact that he's likely to be practicing with Valanciunas year round (accelerating their potential chemistry) and it wouldn't shock me to see him as the pick even with his lower ceiling. Casey will have some sway in this as well if there are a few players ranked around the same level at the Raptors pick who the entire brass feels are about the same level of quality and Masai is looking for a tie breaker.

CoachJReturns · Post #1717 » by **CoachJReturns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:05 pm

After watching some more tape of Brown, I have to admit I'm not as high on him at the moment. His ball handling is quite awful. Only thing really going for him is his ability to attack and finish strong due to his build and explosiveness. I'm sure he'll improve, but he just doesn't look all that smooth on the court. The Demar comparision is becoming more and more obvious. He's definitely not Jason Richardson, or Richard Jefferson. Those guys were both better shooters and Richardson was actually a pretty good ball handler.
I will say that Brown doesn't look so bad shooting the 3 off of a straight catch and shoot and he could be a terror on the fast break. It can't be easy to stop the explosive an athlete when they have a solid build. But on the flip side, the Raptors hardly get out and run at all anyway. This might not be the best team for him.

CoachJReturns · Post #1718 » by **CoachJReturns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:14 pm

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
MikeM wrote:Poeltl is not a PF come on. Cant guard the position. Look at where the league is trending. Poeltl is basically at peak athleticism right now, as he ages foot speed will decrease while the NBA might get smaller.

The NBA is basically a match or mismatch league right now. You cant do anything with players that can be so easily disadvantaged with mismatches.

A guy like Kevin Love is not even useful anymore. Theres a clear direction of where the NBA is going.

I would actually say Skal has lower bust potential because his athleticism + rim protection + jump shooting will guarantee he is a rotation player in the future.

The league is trending towards small ball so everyone has to follow the GSW train? Playing their style isn't going to beat them, it's going to teach you a lesson on how to play their style by getting your butt kicked. You want to be a follower. Champions don't follow, they lead. Defining your own style of basketball and playing it better than anyone else gets you to the top.

Small ball is only a mismatch for the opponent when they're on defense, but on offense a bigger lineup wins every time. Do you honestly believe that Harrison Barnes could defend a true 6'10"-7'0" power forward if teams actually fed the post on him? What allows a team like GSW to play small ball is stupidity by their opponents. I haven't seen a team pound it into the paint once versus GSW during their 2-year dominance. Pounding the paint not only opens up your perimeter players for jumpers, it not only gets you easy buckets, it not only conserves your teams energy for defense, but it also drains the energy of their front court players.

And don't use Kevin Love as an example for why big men aren't useful because he's been putting up empty stats for years. The guy is and always has been useless and overrated. The only reason Cleveland is relevant is because of LeBron James, and without him they're just another bottom feeder.

It's simple, a rebound means you have the ball and if you grab more rebounds you give yourself a better chance to win, right? The team who grabs the most rebounds wins more often than not, and any big man who allows a perimeter player to grab rebounds over him is a joke. Poeltl and Valanciunas are no joke.

Great size beats great small ball every time.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't think anyone is going to beat the Warriors playing their style of basketball. It works for them because it is a style specifically tailored to the personnel they have and the personnel they have happen to be elite at what they do. There is not another Steph Curry in the world, nor is there another Draymond Green. Then there's Thompson, Bogut, Iggy, Barnes. They got rid of Jackson as coach and Lee as a big entirely so they could play this style. If we want to beat them we need a franchise player and we need to play a style that best fits this team. To me that involves going inside out and a lot of pick and roll/pop action with JV. He's a beast offensively and on the boards. The flip side, however, is he does need a quicker and more athletic big beside him and likely more good defenders to help him out. Not sure if that player is in this draft, though Chriss looks it on paper as would Skal if he played like he was expected to.
Man I think this is one of our most talked about drafts ever.

whatamoron · Post #1719 » by **whatamoron** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:41 pm

Masai's past history appears that he likes drafting a player with athletic ability and potential
which generally precludes the picking of the BPA

CoachJReturns · Post #1720 » by **CoachJReturns** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:58 pm

Syd-TK3 wrote:If none of the top 8 fall and Masai is set on korkmaz he needs to trade back for that 15,19 DEN
Grab korkmaz and one of Valentine/Prince then Hernagomaz at 27
I'd prefer to get one of the Top 8 guys but I'd be happy with this scenario

It's my ideal scenario if nobody falls. Get a high ceiling prospect and a rotation guy in the same draft. I think Masai may not see it that way though because you never know when a team will take your guy for seemingly no reason at all. eg. Ennis to Phoenix.