Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[hype_2004]

Scottie is at his best, flourishes being the facilitator, defensive floor leader, communicator and secondary/garbage scorer. He is the modern day Scottie Pippen with better post defense. He's the jack of all trades type that every winning team needs.

[YogurtProducer]

I think if you put Scottie on last year's Pistons team (in place of Cade), and you asked him to create, They would have been better, more balanced team.
and he would be to be sweeper on defence, with Asuar as the primary.

Wait, what?

Cade is on completely different level than Scottie as a creator. I dont see a world where you give Scottie a 33 % usage rate and you have good results. Scottie with that much usage is a nightmare.

[HumbleRen]

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

Yeah down 1% from 2yrs ago. Negligible really.

That’s not the point though. The point is, the hope that a lot of us had, myself included was that he was capable of more usage which in turn would make him play better. That clearly isn’t the case. He’s at his best in a more insulated role on offence with less usage, not more.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t the best player on the team, it just means he’s not a primary advantage creator for a team on offence, he’s at his best as a secondary or tertiary role on offence.

[mdenny]

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

Yeah down 1% from 2yrs ago. Negligible really.

That’s not the point though. The point is, the hope that a lot of us had, myself included was that he was capable of more usage which in turn would make him play better. That clearly isn’t the case. He’s at his best in a more insulated role on offence with less usage, not more.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t the best player on the team, it just means he’s not a primary advantage creator for a team on offence, he’s at his best as a secondary or tertiary role on offence.

Yep. Looking more and more like an allstar version of draymond. Difference being....that matchup dependent he's also capable of going for 30/15/10 maybe 8 or so times per season which is awesome. And we might see him explode in a playoff series with a favorable matchup too.

Only thing that could derail this now is if Barnes is unhappy in that role (the whole ambitions to be a point guard thing). But i think he's good with it. Especially if we're winning.

[MEDIC]

There are a handful of guys in the league who read the floor the way Barnes does. There is no reason why the ball should not touch his hands nearly every posesssiom he is on the court. His ability to make the hockey pass that leads to the open look is amazing. We went away from that after we took the lead.

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

I noticed that too. Instead of looking towards the basket/ surveying the floor, Gradey (without hesitation) plays hot potato & swings the ball around the perimeter. Is is something I talk to my son about often. You should always have a quick look in front of you to see if there is a wide open player or a lane to drive.

[HiJiNX]

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

I noticed that too. Instead of looking towards the basket/ surveying the floor, Gradey (without hesitation) plays hot potato & swings the ball around the perimeter. Is is something I talk to my son about often. You should always have a quick look in front of you to see if there is a wide open player or a lane to drive.

Yup! When I coach I let the kids know that they should always be aware of where everyone is on the floor and the first thing you do when you get the ball is to look up.

There are a few players on our team that always look up the moment they get the ball — Barnes, Shead, and to some extent, Poeltl. It’s no wonder that they’re such good passers.

[Godaddycurse]

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

I noticed that too. Instead of looking towards the basket/ surveying the floor, Gradey (without hesitation) plays hot potato & swings the ball around the perimeter. Is is something I talk to my son about often. You should always have a quick look in front of you to see if there is a wide open player or a lane to drive.

Probably a by product of 0.5 offense though? he made his mind up about his next move already

[everdiso]

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

Yeah down 1% from 2yrs ago. Negligible really.

That’s not the point though. The point is, the hope that a lot of us had, myself included was that he was capable of more usage which in turn would make him play better. That clearly isn’t the case. He’s at his best in a more insulated role on offence with less usage, not more.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t the best player on the team, it just means he’s not a primary advantage creator for a team on offence, he’s at his best as a secondary or tertiary role on offence.

My takeaway is different - he's become much more efficient this year despite his usage staying at a pretty high level, and no real difference from 2yrs ago. So this efficiency doesn't actually have anything to do with how much usage he gets, and more to do with being surrounded by players the other team has to respect offensively.

I think in this environment he probably could maintain good efficiency in higher usage but a) he's never been that kind of me-first player and c) the other guys all deserve the ball too.

[Reeko]

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

I noticed that too. Instead of looking towards the basket/ surveying the floor, Gradey (without hesitation) plays hot potato & swings the ball around the perimeter. Is is something I talk to my son about often. You should always have a quick look in front of you to see if there is a wide open player or a lane to drive.

Yup! When I coach I let the kids know that they should always be aware of where everyone is on the floor and the first thing you do when you get the ball is to look up.

There are a few players on our team that always look up the moment they get the ball — Barnes, Shead, and to some extent, Poeltl. It’s no wonder that they’re such good passers.

Don’t forget CMB!

[tsherkin]

I'm not super worried about Scottie. He seems to have bought in to his role and clearly has credit and team success follow. He's normally inclined to share the ball and the team just brings in more finishers like Ja'Kobe and Gradey for him to pass to.

Yeah, I don't know if "worry" is the word I guess. I'm just hoping we don't have to ask him to move outside of his role too much is more what I meant. We should still be okay so long as BI is healthy and Quick keeps doing his thing while the bench guys contribute, though.

I'm more worried about Ingram. He's more inclined to naturally fill the scoring void, doesn't have a history of consistently buying in defensively, and tends to get banged up. I'm not super worried as he seems like he's realizing the differences in team dynamic with a successful team, but I don't want to rock the boat with him as I really like him as a lead scorer/1st option who is just one of many and doesn't need to dominate the point totals.

Yeah, in general, the team has looked like everyone is fitting together pretty well into roles which make a lot of sense. That's been maybe the best part of it all so far beyond the winning, at least to me. Strong chemistry.

[Tha Cynic]

Yeah. I think people just want Scottie to be this player in their mind that he’s just simply not.

BI is the only guy on the team who can generate double teams, this notion that he can’t is utter nonsense lol.

Scottie is not a creator, he’s a connector. He extends the play, he’s not creating them. He’s in his perfect role, sometimes he’ll average 15 points, sometimes he might have a good night and find himself with 25+.

Sometimes players are going to look off Scottie, whoopti doo. He’s not Jayson Tatum or something. We have a top 5 halfcourt offence BECAUSE Scottie is touching the ball less. We have a top 10 offence BECAUSE Scottie is currently having the lowest usage of his career since 2022-2023.

He’s doing more with less and that’s exactly why he’s successful this season.

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

So two things

1) on your first comment - don’t really care who scores. I care about whether we are moving the ball and playing as a team. We don’t have a Shai who can just come down and score on every possession like he did in the playoffs last year. Maybe Ingram becomes that good and that would be amazing. No one said anything about creator. Some people are looking at this very black and white because they think they have superior vision and are missing the point and opinion of others. Hey maybe I’m wrong and we just need Ingram to play hero ball and that’s the only way we win.

2) don’t care about usage since I’m not worried if Barne is finishing plays. That’s not what he’s good at even if he has been better at taking better shots this season as expected by some. I care if we’re moving the ball and playing as a team.

IQ there is a definitely an issue with how he runs the team a looks off guys he should be passing to imo. Ingram is still learning and this is his style of game and something that he’s pretty good at. He draws doubles so you can live with it but there will be gams where we will need to be smarter on offense.

[Tha Cynic]

I don't actually think Scottie needs to take many more shots or anything, but I think people talking about how some fans just want Scottie to be taking more shots and be a bigger scorer are misreading a lot of posts in this thread.

Bingo. I think it’s intentionally misreading as it’s easier to respond this way. No one here said Barnes should be talking more shots or creating more. The post are about completely ignoring him when he’s wide open or has guys sealed. Doesn’t mean he will score or take the shot. It’s about trusting your teammates and playing through them. Lowry was very good at this.

And this style of play - This is Scottie Barnes. Even when guys ignore him he will come back and make the right play. He’s the one guy you never have to worry about in terms of passing and making sure he makes the right play. Shead is also very good at this. I see posts about worrying well ask him to do too much. If there’s one thing we have seen in his career it is that Barnes always does what he’s asked. He has changed his role in season numerous times to help others fit their roles better. This is the last of our worries even though one poster keeps posting in here as if he plays like Cam Thomas lol

[HumbleRen]

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

So two things

1) on your first comment - don’t really care who scores. I care about whether we are moving the ball and playing as a team. We don’t have a Shai who can just come down and score on every possession like he did in the playoffs last year. Maybe Ingram becomes that good and that would be amazing. No one said anything about creator. Some people are looking at this very black and white because they think they have superior vision and are missing the point and opinion of others. Hey maybe I’m wrong and we just need Ingram to play hero ball and that’s the only way we win.

2) don’t care about usage since I’m not worried if Barne is finishing plays. That’s not what he’s good at even if he has been better at taking better shots this season as expected by some. I care if we’re moving the ball and playing as a team.

IQ there is a definitely an issue with how he runs the team a looks off guys he should be passing to imo. Ingram is still learning and this is his style of game and something that he’s pretty good at. He draws doubles so you can live with it but there will be gams where we will need to be smarter on offense.

Gotta move the ball with purpose though. We passed the ball just as much as we did this year last year but we were bottom 5 in half court offence, bottom 5 in offence and Scottie was one of the worst efficient volume scorers in the league. It’s never just about passing for the sake of passing.

Good offence comes from great advantage creation. BI and IQ are the best at that on the team, sometimes it’ll look selfish but that’s just how it’s always going to look when you have players with a pull up ability.

The key is to find that balance of pull up creation vs sticking to the offensive system. I think Darko has done a good job of striking that balance so far.

[Tha Cynic]

Refs gave Barnes free throws - TS%!

[hype_2004]

Scottie is the DPOY and MIP frontrunner candidate prove me wrong!

[hype_2004]

Refs gave Barnes free throws - TS%!

He should be getting at least 5 fts a game by the amount of contact he generates but he doesn't get the respect.

[Thaddy]

What's this Scotties advertisement about lol

[raptorforlife88]

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

So two things

1) on your first comment - don’t really care who scores. I care about whether we are moving the ball and playing as a team. We don’t have a Shai who can just come down and score on every possession like he did in the playoffs last year. Maybe Ingram becomes that good and that would be amazing. No one said anything about creator. Some people are looking at this very black and white because they think they have superior vision and are missing the point and opinion of others. Hey maybe I’m wrong and we just need Ingram to play hero ball and that’s the only way we win.

2) don’t care about usage since I’m not worried if Barne is finishing plays. That’s not what he’s good at even if he has been better at taking better shots this season as expected by some. I care if we’re moving the ball and playing as a team.

IQ there is a definitely an issue with how he runs the team a looks off guys he should be passing to imo. Ingram is still learning and this is his style of game and something that he’s pretty good at. He draws doubles so you can live with it but there will be gams where we will need to be smarter on offense.

Gotta move the ball with purpose though. We passed the ball just as much as we did this year last year but we were bottom 5 in half court offence, bottom 5 in offence and Scottie was one of the worst efficient volume scorers in the league. It’s never just about passing for the sake of passing.

Good offence comes from great advantage creation. BI and IQ are the best at that on the team, sometimes it’ll look selfish but that’s just how it’s always going to look when you have players with a pull up ability.

The key is to find that balance of pull up creation vs sticking to the offensive system. I think Darko has done a good job of striking that balance so far.

I may be wrong but I thought the offense produced a ton of open looks last year, but we did not have the personnel to capitalize on it. The team just missed open shots because they sucked. We were playing several rookies, most of whom were worse, significant minutes. Mogbo got plenty of time and he no longer players. Jakobe is playing less minutes. Shead was just a worse player and took a big jump etc.

Whereas this year, we're healthy and have better depth and so are making our open looks.

[HumbleRen]

So two things

1) on your first comment - don’t really care who scores. I care about whether we are moving the ball and playing as a team. We don’t have a Shai who can just come down and score on every possession like he did in the playoffs last year. Maybe Ingram becomes that good and that would be amazing. No one said anything about creator. Some people are looking at this very black and white because they think they have superior vision and are missing the point and opinion of others. Hey maybe I’m wrong and we just need Ingram to play hero ball and that’s the only way we win.

2) don’t care about usage since I’m not worried if Barne is finishing plays. That’s not what he’s good at even if he has been better at taking better shots this season as expected by some. I care if we’re moving the ball and playing as a team.

IQ there is a definitely an issue with how he runs the team a looks off guys he should be passing to imo. Ingram is still learning and this is his style of game and something that he’s pretty good at. He draws doubles so you can live with it but there will be gams where we will need to be smarter on offense.

Gotta move the ball with purpose though. We passed the ball just as much as we did this year last year but we were bottom 5 in half court offence, bottom 5 in offence and Scottie was one of the worst efficient volume scorers in the league. It’s never just about passing for the sake of passing.

Good offence comes from great advantage creation. BI and IQ are the best at that on the team, sometimes it’ll look selfish but that’s just how it’s always going to look when you have players with a pull up ability.

The key is to find that balance of pull up creation vs sticking to the offensive system. I think Darko has done a good job of striking that balance so far.

I may be wrong but I thought the offense produced a ton of open looks last year, but we did not have the personnel to capitalize on it. The team just missed open shots because they sucked. We were playing several rookies, most of whom were worse, significant minutes. Mogbo got plenty of time and he no longer players. Jakobe is playing less minutes. Shead was just a worse player and took a big jump etc.

Whereas this year, we're healthy and have better depth and so are making our open looks.

We produced a ton of good looks and potential assist, we just didn’t have the talent to execute them.

[Syd-TK3]

It always bothered me seeing Scottie have low rebound games. IMO there's no reason he shouldn't be averaging atleast 8 even with Poeltl out there.

I'm glad to see more effort from him recently