Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[BoyzNTheHood]

I don't know what some of y'all are watching. Barnes barely touched the ball for long stretches because Flynn and Adams were trying to do way too much on their own. Dude was playing full court defence for most of the game, forcing turnovers and racking up blocks too. If a bad game from Barnes (who we know is a work in progress and also looked to be dealing with an injury still) gets you 8 PTS/4 REB/3 AST/5 BLK/1 STL on limited usage, you take that.

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This. God dammit this. I don't even know what to add.

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

Were people expecting a polished offensive player because no one ever said that he'd be ready offensively from day 1. In the draft threads we preached that he'd be able to run the offense (which he has barely been allowed to do), his defense was elite (which it has been), he'd bring energy (which he has), and that his shot was not broken (which it isn't and will get much better with more reps). He is as expected.

People are just salty about passing on Suggs, and to be frank a lot of those fake Raptors fans need to take themselves permanently over to the Magic board.

[Chandan]

This. God dammit this. I don't even know what to add.

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

Again, those were YOUR expectations. So you live with that, don't project around here. Everyone "before the draft" knew Barnes was a massive project and that it was his offense you'd need to unlock in order to reach his full potential. Masai and Co scouted both throughout the year, scouted them during the draft process and feel Scottie has the bigger ceiling. Them selecting him solidifies they believe they can get him there. If it makes you feel better I firmly believe Suggs, Green and Cade are the best players right now, but I don't know who'll be best in 3-4 years and that includes Mobley, Barnes and players outside the top 5.

To many people on realgm and twitter are fools of the moment and don't understand there's nothing set in stone in terms of the draft this early. That goes for Green (who I think is best/just an example), because I remember a player named Tyreke Evans who was unanimously loved and seen as the next great after his rookie year. Well chit happens and we know how that turned out.

i think even the most pessimistic fans had a tiny sliver of hope that when we watch him play for the first time he would surprise us with a more refined offensive game, or at least he could dominate around the basket with physicality. But it is as advertised, he really is as raw as they come, and the NBA isn't a league where he can just walk into the lane and drop the ball into the basket because he is tall.. Really hope the development team knows what they are doing to make him a threat by year 3.

[Kinger95]

anybody got barnes highlights from tonight?

His free throws? What highlights?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Clowns on this forum were literally trashing OG on a nightly basis before he developed, and now he can't miss, and this is without contributing anything to the title run. We need a setting on this forum where your posts need to be approved because the short sightedness is beyond recovery.

[normgod6]

anybody got barnes highlights from tonight?

His free throws? What highlights?

Don't knock on free throws. It's the most efficient shot in basketball and it takes skill to get to the line consistently like Scottie is doing right now.

[HumbleRen]

Barnes is the most raw player in the top 10, possibly top 15 in terms of offence. It’s going to be a frustrating year for people but he brings a lot of to the table even without any scoring ability. We just gotta hope he can bring it all together.

[God Squad]

This. God dammit this. I don't even know what to add.

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

Were people expecting a polished offensive player because no one ever said that he'd be ready offensively from day 1. In the draft threads we preached that he'd be able to run the offense (which he has barely been allowed to do), his defense was elite (which it has been), he'd bring energy (which he has), and that his shot was not broken (which it isn't and will get much better with more reps). He is as expected.

People are just salty about passing on Suggs, and to be frank a lot of those fake Raptors fans need to take themselves permanently over to the Magic board.

They project what they wanted, and when it doesn't happen they're salty and bring the board down. This is coming from someone who wanted

Green
Mobley
Suggs

But once Masai choose Barnes you accept and pivot into supporting your city and prospect. Honestly some fans need to just become Magic fans and dip.

[normgod6]

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

Again, those were YOUR expectations. So you live with that, don't project around here. Everyone "before the draft" knew Barnes was a massive project and that it was his offense you'd need to unlock in order to reach his full potential. Masai and Co scouted both throughout the year, scouted them during the draft process and feel Scottie has the bigger ceiling. Them selecting him solidifies they believe they can get him there. If it makes you feel better I firmly believe Suggs, Green and Cade are the best players right now, but I don't know who'll be best in 3-4 years and that includes Mobley, Barnes and players outside the top 5.

To many people on realgm and twitter are fools of the moment and don't understand there's nothing set in stone in terms of the draft this early. That goes for Green (who I think is best/just an example), because I remember a player named Tyreke Evans who was unanimously loved and seen as the next great after his rookie year. Well chit happens and we know how that turned out.

i think even the most pessimistic fans had a tiny sliver of hope that when we watch him play for the first time he would surprise us with a more refined offensive game, or at least he could dominate around the basket with physicality. But it is as advertised, he really is as raw as they come, and the NBA isn't a league where you can just walk into the lane and drop the ball into the basket because he is tall.. Really hope the development team knows what they are doing to make him a threat by year 3.

Once again I think he has a better than expected dribble drive game. It doesn't show up on highlight reels but he's getting to the free throw line at an ELITE rate. That takes real offensive skills to drive into the paint and draw contact. Jimmy Butler has made all star career out of it. No one who is shooting 20 free throws in 3 games is offensively "hopeless'

[droid56]

Are we seeing Scottie's best right now? I doubt it. Getting drafted top 5 and then very soon after playing with a bunch of strangers isn't an ideal situation. Let's wait to more fairly assess him when he is playing with the actual Toronto Raptors team in a couple of months.

[Los_29]

I don't know what some of y'all are watching. Barnes barely touched the ball for long stretches because Flynn and Adams were trying to do way too much on their own. Dude was playing full court defence for most of the game, forcing turnovers and racking up blocks too. If a bad game from Barnes (who we know is a work in progress and also looked to be dealing with an injury still) gets you 8 PTS/4 REB/3 AST/5 BLK/1 STL on limited usage, you take that.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

This. God dammit this. I don't even know what to add.

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

A lot of frustration? The only people who are frustrated are people who overreact and are new to the sport of basketball.

He's played 3 games in Summer League and is putting up 13/7/3/1/2. Yes his percentages are bad but he just turned 20 and Cade, Suggs and Mobley are also putting up some horrendous percentages and they are supposed to be much further along offensively than Barnes.

I don't understand why this is a shock to people. Look at the Summer League stats from the past. You have some amazing players in this league who had very mediocre, sometimes awful Summer League performances. In 2008 Derrick Rose averaged 9ppg on bad percentages in the Summer League and then won the MVP three years later. And if you want some Raptor examples, FVV and Siakam were really underwhelming in 2016 but in the 2017 Summer League they led the team in scoring.

It's so weird how people think the Summer League is some kind of barometer for future success. These guys are all playing for themselves and they are playing with guys they have never played with. There have been tons of Summer League standouts who never made it in the NBA and tons of Summer League duds who went onto have great careers. It's been mentioned earlier but Tim Duncan had a terrible Summer League and he was a 4 year college standout and the #1 pick.

People need to stop thinking these guys are complete players. They aren't.

[Chandan]

Once again I think he has a better than expected dribble drive game. It doesn't show up on highlight reels but he's getting to the free throw line at an ELITE rate. That takes real offensive skills to drive into the paint and draw contact. Jimmy Butler has made all star career out of it. No one who is shooting 20 free throws in 3 games is offensively "hopeless'

i dont know if he has a good dribble drive game or not because they've been giving him fouls almost every time. If they dont foul him I honestly have a tough time believing he could finish around the rim, because thus far he has been throwing up some really ugly bricks off whenever he does get his shots off. At some point in regular season he's going to run into defenders that doesn't foul and i worry that he will be shooting in the low 30s because of his horrible rushed shots around the basket.

I am not going to sugar coat it, he has shown a REALLY bad touch around the rim so far. but then again Norm had a very bad touch when he wasn't dunking as well.

[God Squad]

This. God dammit this. I don't even know what to add.

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

A lot of frustration? The only people who are frustrated are people who overreact and are new to the sport of basketball.

He's played 3 games in Summer League and is putting up 13/7/3/1/2. Yes his percentages are bad but he just turned 20 and Cade, Suggs and Mobley are also putting up some horrendous percentages and they are supposed to be much further along offensively than Barnes.

I don't understand why this is a shock to people. Look at the Summer League stats from the past. You have some amazing players in this league who had very mediocre, sometimes awful Summer League performances. In 2008 Derrick Rose averaged 9ppg on bad percentages in the Summer League and then won the MVP three years later. And if you want some Raptor examples, FVV and Siakam were really underwhelming in 2016 but in the 2017 Summer League they led the team in scoring.

It's so weird how people think the Summer League is some kind of barometer for future success. These guys are all playing for themselves and they are playing with guys they have never played with. There have been tons of Summer League standouts who never made it in the NBA and tons of Summer League duds who went onto have great careers. It's been mentioned earlier but Tim Duncan had a terrible Summer League and he was a 4 year college standout and the #1 pick.

People need to stop thinking these guys are complete players. They aren't.

These posters are fools of the moment, crowning stars and calling busts after summer league games.

[kanahda ballz]

Kuminga and Suggs both top 10 in USG%, Cade at 17, and waaay down on the list is Scottie at 64. Behind the likes of Jaden Springer and Shariffe Cooper.

Yeah, according to the advanced stats Suggs and Cade well above Scottie in USG%, however Jalen Green only 0.5% ahead of Scottie (25.8 to 25.3).

One stat comparison I watch in playmakers is AST% to USG%. I like to see a higher AST% to USG% in playmakers.

All of Scottie, Suggs, Green and Cade have an AST% below their USG% (in Cade's, Sugg's,and Green's cases, AST% well below their USG%).

On the other hand - Davion Mitchell: 42.7 AST% to 18.3 USG% .

A lot of people were down on Mitchell before the draft - saying he was too old, too short in height and too short wing span.

I dunno though, it looks like the Kings may have found themselves another good one.

[Los_29]

I think what some people are frustrated with is how bad his offensive game looks....With a 4th overall pick you want your player to be able to do basic NBA Level moves....You watch some players who were drafted after Barnes be able to make it look effortless But for him it looks like he has to try his hardest just to get 1 basket...

Thats prolly where alot of the frustration is coming from....Yes he can put up respectable numbers but its how he is doing it shooing like 2-8 every night and missing alot of easy baskets a number 4 overall pick should be able to make...

And most of his baskets coming from fouls where he attacks and can't finish...

Its prolly just how Raw he looks as a player on the offensive side thats frustarting people

A lot of frustration? The only people who are frustrated are people who overreact and are new to the sport of basketball.

He's played 3 games in Summer League and is putting up 13/7/3/1/2. Yes his percentages are bad but he just turned 20 and Cade, Suggs and Mobley are also putting up some horrendous percentages and they are supposed to be much further along offensively than Barnes.

I don't understand why this is a shock to people. Look at the Summer League stats from the past. You have some amazing players in this league who had very mediocre, sometimes awful Summer League performances. In 2008 Derrick Rose averaged 9ppg on bad percentages in the Summer League and then won the MVP three years later. And if you want some Raptor examples, FVV and Siakam were really underwhelming in 2016 but in the 2017 Summer League they led the team in scoring.

It's so weird how people think the Summer League is some kind of barometer for future success. These guys are all playing for themselves and they are playing with guys they have never played with. There have been tons of Summer League standouts who never made it in the NBA and tons of Summer League duds who went onto have great careers. It's been mentioned earlier but Tim Duncan had a terrible Summer League and he was a 4 year college standout and the #1 pick.

People need to stop thinking these guys are complete players. They aren't.

These posters are fools of the moment, crowning stars and calling busts after summer league games.

It's actually pretty disturbing. I don't think it's healthy.

Also, some people comparing Scottie to Draymond. Draymond averaged 6ppg, 8rpg and 1.4spg in Summer League as a 22 year old, 4 year college player. But then the following year averaged 13ppg,7rpg, 2apg, 2spg and 1bpg. I know the percentages are bad but Scottie is MILES ahead of Draymond.

[God Squad]

Kuminga and Suggs both top 10 in USG%, Cade at 17, and waaay down on the list is Scottie at 64. Behind the likes of Jaden Springer and Shariffe Cooper.

Yeah, according to the advanced stats Suggs and Cade well above Scottie in USG%, however Jalen Green only 0.5% ahead of Scottie (25.8 to 25.3).

One stat comparison I watch in playmakers is AST% to USG%. I like to see a higher AST% to USG% in playmakers.

All of Scottie, Suggs, Green and Cade have an AST% below their USG% (in Cade's, Sugg's,and Green's cases, AST% well below their USG%).

On the other hand - Davion Mitchell: 42.7 AST% to 18.3 USG% .

A lot of people were down on Mitchell before the draft - saying he was too old, too short in height and too short wing span.

I dunno though, it looks like the Kings may have found themselves another good one.

I'll own it. I was down on his for a lot of things but height was it. For me personally it was age, FT rate and was his 3pt an anomaly. His dribble drive and defense are as advertised. But he hasn't quelled my concerns for the above at all yet. But most importantly I wanted a higher ceiling player at 7.

Also neat stat

[Mark_83]

I'm a big Barnes fan but I don't see any way he doesn't start out in the G League at his current stage of development. He does not look ready rotation minutes yet.

[seanbig]

Scotty Barnes looked like a poor man Og on defense

His offense was probably worse than anyone on the summer league roster

He needs to develop his non- existent offensive game on the 905

His handle is much worse than Banton
His post game is bad and he gets stripped a lot on the block

Dude kinda sucks on offense in summer league and we want to run our offense through that???

There’s a reason he averaged 10ppg in Collège

Forget the combine measurements

The eye test says he’s years away on the offense

[execoftheyear]

honestly, Draymond is the best case scenario for Barnes THIS season. Hopefully our development team can improve his scoring ability over the years but I'm not expecting much this season. I could see him being a really good glue guy but not a go to guy.

Wainright looks really impressive. I have a feeling he'll make the team. That combination of size and skill is pretty rare. He moves really fluid for his size and looks to have a decent touch on his shot. Built like Joey Graham but moves a lot better.

[BBallInSight]

Probably best to cut Barnes now, and begin the healing process.

[OAKLEY_2]

Probably best to cut Barnes and begin the healing process.

Well let's look at all this objectively. Barnes has a good first game by the numbers disconnected on offence. Yesterday with a rolled ankle he had 8 points and 5 blocks and 3 boards in 23 minutes of looking very out of sync again. Meanwhile Banton and esp. Wainwright looked rotation good to great. Achuiwa? Needs to improve shooting just like Barnes. Sengun, the fantasy love of some Euroballers and albeit crafty slomo player, was getting tossed about by both Achuiwa and Gillespie the latter who was not very good last night. Flynn played great. I am encouraged by our haul but I think Johnson will be trade fodder or 905. Number 8 Adams plays like Lowry with excellent ball control but he made some horrific passes yesterday.