Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[phailing101]

I'd rather have TJ than Vesely. TJ seems to have a better skill-set.

What TJ lacks is two fold:

(1) Heart

(2) Motor

I don't care how you measure out or how much talent you have if you lack those two things.

[yayotube]

Interesting. Well, if they see him as having the biggest superstar potential, they have to draft him.

I've said all along that Williams could easily be the consensus 1st overall pick after the workouts are done. I think he has Blake Griffin level talent.

Whoa there.

Take a deep breath and put the crack pipe down.

You lay the crack pipe down.

Other than his explosiveness and strength what else does Griffin have at this stage of his career? Yeah he's an incredible talent and will get 10x better but those are two biggest things he has.

Williams has those two skills too, maybe not as MUCH explosiveness and strength as Blake. And he has a three point shot in his arsenal too.

[fredericklove]

I'd rather have TJ than Vesely. TJ seems to have a better skill-set.

What TJ lacks is two fold:

(1) Heart

(2) Motor

I don't care how you measure out or how much talent you have if you lack those two things.

I don't doubt that, he would've been a top 5 talent this draft if he has those two elements in addition to his incredible skillset. But Vesely strikes me as a player with limited offensive upside.

[SkywalkerAC]

Kanter's jumper is buttery smooth. Draft that man and put him next to a veteran defensive 5.

A 3 point shooting 7 footer, just what we need.

Too bad he's not a 7 footer.

[just23]

I totally agree with the poster who said the NBA should have a proper farm league system. It's ridiculous to have a minimum age for someone to begin their chosen career. However, these kids need a place where they can earn a wage while also having the time to be properly coached an learn to play the game correctly. Part of the problem of the minimum age rule is that every several years someone will come around and be ready to contribute as an 18 year old. They are rare of course, but they do exist. What benefit would there have been to Garnett, Stoudamire and Lebron going to college other than making money for the NCAA? It just creates an opportunity to get injured before they ever earn a living. Most of these kids know what they want to do and don't give a damn about college. Why go to school if your chosen profession doesn't require it? Many prospects just end up taking the easiest and most useless courses available so they can maintain their eligibility. The minimum age rule does not help players. It only helps owners and it should be disposed of and replaced with a solid farm league system immediately. Coaches with real knowledge and experience who can give them minutes and teach them. A bigger draft would be nice too. I'm also sure that you'd get some late bloomers who got much better in a farm league than they were during college. That would increase the overall pool of talent. It's a better system without question. Who wants to see kids who have no skill when you can watch a skilled veteran play and compete for a win? Sure, teams will let certain rookies play heavy minutes, but those who are too unskilled and immature will have a better environment to grow and develop. Get er done Stern.

[Indeed]

Last time he was measured in at 6'11 at 263 pds. I don't there's an issue for Kanter to play at the C position given his size, he's most likely NBA ready.

Its his wingspan and max-vert.
I don't think he can jump very high, and if his wingspan is short (or standing reach is not high), then I have a concern for his shot blocking ability.

He is a good rebounder, however, this is due to his competition. Yet, he is definitely NBA ready, and can contribute right away with his all-around skills.

I think shotblocking would be the least of my concern, as long as he has the fundamentals to rebound the ball in which case it looks like he does than I wouldn't be all that concerned. I think Kevin Love would probably be the best comparison in terms of size and ability and he has a wingspan of 6'9 compared to Kanter @ 7'1.

It is the least of your concern, but we (Raptors) desperately need a paint presence.
If he is not agile enough, and he doesn't have better lift, he is going to struggle in the NBA.
Josh Smith and Love are more athletic and have good vertical, besides, they play PF spot, so it is hard to compare Kanter who lacks the athletic aspect. This is the reason why the combine measurement would be very important.

[Hassassin]

I fell off the Vesely wagon a few weeks ago when I realized he was 21 and has basically no perimeter skills yet, and that his footspeed defending SFs is not as good as I thought after reading some Euro poster takes on it, he might be an undersized PF at the next level

I think his comparison is Euro Gerald Wallace (big SF or small PF with no offensive skill but monster athleticism and energy). But it sounds like Vesely might not be as quick laterally as Wallace, nor as strong. He could be a big time bust if he comes in and doesn't have offensive game, and is just a hustle rebounder tweener

I don't think anyone considers Vesely a SF at the NBA level. He is 6'11 and 240 pounds. He's no small PF. He plays SF because his team needs him to.

On offence he could play SF and take his advantage as being bigger than typical SF and 6'11 definetly is not undersized 6'9 yes 6'11 no.

I think at the NBA level he would struggle at 3. You put him at 4 though and you get suddenly get an intriguing prospect at the NBA level.

[Hassassin]

I think shotblocking would be the least of my concern, as long as he has the fundamentals to rebound the ball in which case it looks like he does than I wouldn't be all that concerned. I think Kevin Love would probably be the best comparison in terms of size and ability and he has a wingspan of 6'9 compared to Kanter @ 7'1.

It is the least of your concern, but we (Raptors) desperately need a paint presence.
If he is not agile enough, and he doesn't have better lift, he is going to struggle in the NBA.
Josh Smith and Love are more athletic and have good vertical, besides, they play PF spot, so it is hard to compare Kanter who lacks the athletic aspect. This is the reason why the combine measurement would be very important.

Colangelo also repeatedly mentioned shot blocking and rim protection during his end of the season press conference.

[Reignman]

So this is where we basically are, with the information we have at our disposal everyone has made their picks.

Now we just need to wait for the combines/workouts and hopefully we get some good info out of that.

I have Irving, D Will and Kanter; however, if D Will looks more like a 4 and/or Kanter can't catch up to the speed of the pro game then I'd be willing to change my picks.

I've pretty much kept my picks fluid throughout the year (although with the same 6 or 7 prospects playing musical chairs).

Man, the next little while is going to be killer.

[Indeed]

Kanter's jumper is buttery smooth. Draft that man and put him next to a veteran defensive 5.

A 3 point shooting 7 footer, just what we need.

Too bad he's not a 7 footer.

The difference with Bargnani having a 3pt shoot and Kanter having a 3pt shoot is completely different.

Bargnani has the quickness, where he can fake his shot and drive to the basket (we saw that before), however, he has yet to master it, since his ball handling is not good enough (no crossover, no spin move).

Kanter is slow, so he can take an open 3pt shoot to spread the floor, but he has a spin move, where he can get by his opponent even without faking it.

I am not surprised if they are playing together, but one of them (most likely Bargnani) needs to lose weight, improve his handle, and be more agile/mobile as a PF.

[Indeed]

So this is where we basically are, with the information we have at our disposal everyone has made their picks.

Now we just need to wait for the combines/workouts and hopefully we get some good info out of that.

I have Irving, D Will and Kanter; however, if D Will looks more like a 4 and/or Kanter can't catch up to the speed of the pro game then I'd be willing to change my picks.

I've pretty much kept my picks fluid throughout the year (although with the same 6 or 7 prospects playing musical chairs).

Man, the next little while is going to be killer.

Not until the combine and perhaps the lottery result.
Irving and D Will could be the better players, then there are so many factors when choosing between Kanter and Val. I would go Kanter over D Will if his measurement is good (6"11 with 7"3 wingspan or 9"2 standing reach).

[Weems]

Feeling better about Kanter, for no reason I can really put a finger on. Val, Kemba, Vesley, others, remain disasters waiting to happen. Can't form an opinion on Biyombo or Knight.

[JYD]

The difference with Bargnani having a 3pt shoot and Kanter having a 3pt shoot is completely different.

Bargnani has the quickness, where he can fake his shot and drive to the basket (we saw that before), however, he has yet to master it, since his ball handling is not good enough (no crossover, no spin move).

Kanter is slow, so he can take an open 3pt shoot to spread the floor, but he has a spin move, where he can get by his opponent even without faking it.

I am not surprised if they are playing together, but one of them (most likely Bargnani) needs to lose weight, improve his handle, and be more agile/mobile as a PF.

After seeing the recent Kanter video I was impressed with his face-up game even more...I think it's more advanced than his post game, at least in terms of being effective at the NBA level. He also seems to prefer facing up using those SF skills.

But my main concern is the defense, because I don't want a repeat performance of taking someone with limited ability in that dept. Kanter is almost 6'11 in shoes, with a mediocre wingspan for a C at 7'1, and whose standing reach is not going to be impressive because of his wide shoulders. Combine that with the fact he is not 'bouncy' and he has a lot of questions to answer in workouts. I don't want another defensively limited C, nor a PF either playing out of position or forcing Ed to play out of position.

If you go C, you need the D. 17 years of losing, with our best C being AD and us having the most success with him says something, I think. Unless you're sporting an LBJ and Wade, you just ain't going far without a guy who can challenge NBA bigs in the paint.

[JYD]

Not until the combine and perhaps the lottery result.
Irving and D Will could be the better players, then there are so many factors when choosing between Kanter and Val. I would go Kanter over D Will if his measurement is good (6"11 with 7"3 wingspan or 9"2 standing reach).

He's already been measured at 6'10.5 in shoes with a 7'1 wingspan. I don't see how his standing reach hit's 9'2. Chris Bosh for example (just taking the easiest available stats), was 6'11.5 in shoes (at draft time, he may have grown after), his wingspan was 7'3.5, and his standing reach is 9'1. Now his neck hurts him in standing reach, but Kanter is wider, so considering all those things I would wager Kanter himself comes out with about a 9'0 standing reach. And even then I think I may be an inch or so generous.

[Rapsobsessed7]

if Kanter can play D which i dont know about then you take him.

If he cant i take Brandon Knight

[wanker]

New video of Ryan Russillo talking about best/worst case scenarios of Knight, Jones and Tristan Thompson.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

[ballocks]

People just go back and forth about the draft throughout the year. It's funny. Everyone's board is set in stone- until it changes according to a few high profile mock sites, at which time it gets cemented again. Somehow Bismack Biyombo is surefire lotto stock now. Some fans even want to trade up to get him. Most of those fans haven't even seen him play. He's only dominating the fantasy blacktop. What can you say? The machine is too powerful. It takes everyone for a ride and never lets go.

I've watched my fair share of college ball this year. The Raptors were impossible entertainment on most nights and I was fairy confident (as we all were) they'd pick relatively high. So here they are sitting pretty, and everyone's dumping on the crop. It's nuts.

Let me just rant here: the draft may not be deep this year, but if you're picking at #3 you have relatively NOTHING to worry about. This draft is poor for those teams picking later; if you're at #3, you're going to get a top rotation player whether you like it or not. Lebron may not be there but if you're going to complain about not having a Lebron in the draft, you're going to be a miserable wreck for the rest of your life. Those players don't come on a schedule, their availability is not related to certain teams picking in the top 3- you don't plan for those studs. You can't. Complaining about them is like complaining you're not 7 ft tall... at some point you have to forget about it or you'll miss out on the many other things within grasp.

That said, this draft will produce at least a handful of bona fide stars IMO. I don't know exactly who but I'm confident I have an approximate idea. I think a lot of the people who are dumping on this draft are either misinformed or spoiled- especially if their team is slotted in the top 5. I mean, are there five players worth picking in this draft? You better believe it. No, Harrison Barnes is not there. Neither is Jared Sullinger. But if you were expecting Perry Jones III to contribute anytime over the next five years, I'm sorry- do you really think he's pulling out because lotto teams are banging down his door? I mean, the guy's not pro ready. All he has is a draft profile and metrics. Go watch him play for a half and tell me you don't toss his profile in the trash- because he's not ready. The guy was the third best player on his team- and in case you didn't know, his team was the Baylor Bears. They didn't crack the tourney, they didn't even come close- after they made the Elite Eight in 2010 (without him). Pundits expected them to win the Big 12 after drawing his highly touted signature last spring and they finished 8th- yes, 8th! Out of 12! People are now crying that he's not available in order to build their pro team around? Silly.

Anyway, my point is not to kill a college prospect. I hope he goes back to Waco and gets it together. But right now, as far as i'm concerned, he's the Felipe Lopez of the new era. I'm not bothered at all.

Who do i like? Kyrie Irving is an outstanding prospect who would relieve a lot of the angst in Toronto- if just temporarily. Among NBA markets, I think we need a reason for good vibes more than anyone. Showing blind faith in this team's historically shoddy plans is not an option anymore. Irving may not pan out as people expect (or hope) but it will give fans a short reprieve from the failure around here. I think that's almost as important as winning because winning does not come by accident; it's an effect, not a cause; it's usually composed of many different ingredients, most of which we don't currently have in abundance. The longer we go like this, swimming in a pool of deadly currents, the harder it is for anyone to come in and make an impact here- talent be damned. It's a black hole until we get some positive juices flowing again. I think Irving's presence may help to calm the waters somewhat- but I do acknowledge the potential conflict with Bayless and do share Chad Ford's Derrick Williams logic if the Raptors decide to move forward with Bayless, speaking of...

Derrick Williams is a gem. He's pro ready, he's a Wildcat (keep in mind Bayless is a Wildcat) and he seems to be a good fit. Having Colangelo quoted on his future as a 3 in the L (agreed) may indicate an early interest?

Jimmer Fredette has a questionable game for the NBA and that's been well chronicled. But I harken back to the Irving idea: the Raptors need to "feel good" about something and Jimmer's charisma is second to none. Having him around may help to unburden everyone else- whether he can become the face of the franchise or not. I think this last season was unbearable for the Raptors on that point: none of the Raptors are at all media savvy or even camera friendly. It's a desert here. Jimmer would change that overnight, even if his game wouldn't bring much initially, and that small quality alone could still do wonders for our individual and collective mentality. I mean, contrary to popular opinion, I think the Raptors fall asleep a lot- I think that's because we bore ourselves to death. We could use an alarm clock personality.

Brandon Knight: I'm skeptical of his ability to produce right away. I think the Raptors need that more than most. But you don't lead a team to championship level success (as a freshman, remember) by sheer fluke. I love winners, we don't really have a champion to wheel us forward and Knight could serve us well in that respect. The fact Magic Johnson said he'd take him "#1 in the draft" doesn't hurt. Magic's not a bad endorsement.

And speaking of winners, Kemba Walker: he took his team to the promised land. All the way. No small feat. His track record is good money for me. His sort of success has a tendency to translate to the next level. I see him as having a TJ Ford-like impact. His game is very flexible, he succeeds "in a variety of applications" as he's demonstrated throughout his UConn career. He "finds his way" much better than most, imposes his will on his opponent in an equally uncommon and spectacular way and he's the kind of guy who has teams tailoring their games to him- not the other way around. With the exception of Bayless and Davis (and, absurdly, maybe Kleiza if you're looking for a third) the Raptors lack severely in that department and have for some years. IMO, Kemba would be a significant add for Toronto.

Either way, I think the Raptors are more in need of a leader than a talent, which puts them in an especially unique position heading into the summer. There is a lot of unused talent on this roster already, there has been for a while, and finding someone with the right intangibles could very well coax the difference out of this team. The leadership quotient has been abysmal at least since Bosh left, and probably longer. I have no doubt that such players are available in this draft class and if there's a single team pumped for June 23, it should be the Toronto Raptors. But I don't expect to win that argument.

peace

[CanadaB-Ball]

New video of Ryan Russillo talking about best/worst case scenarios of Knight, Jones and Tristan Thompson.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

I completely disagreed with his analysis.

Thompson is very good defensively for his age, and pretty raw offensively.

Irving is much more of a pure point guard than Knight at this point.

Terrence is a very good ballhandler for his size, although his outside shooting needs work, but to say he has no outside traits is not true in my opinion.

Overall I, for the most part, did not agree with this video. Not saying it's wrong, just saying that it's not how I see these players developing.

[SDM]

New video of Ryan Russillo talking about best/worst case scenarios of Knight, Jones and Tristan Thompson.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

I completely disagreed with his analysis.

Thompson is very good defensively for his age, and pretty raw offensively.

Irving is much more of a pure point guard than Knight at this point.

Terrence is a very good ballhandler for his size, although his outside shooting needs work, but to say he has no outside traits is not true in my opinion.

Overall I, for the most part, did not agree with this video. Not saying it's wrong, just saying that it's not how I see these players developing.

I agree with you.

[SkywalkerAC]

right on ballocks, i've been thinking the same. the top 6 or 7 in this draft project pretty well and there's more than a couple after that. thanks to a good tank job, we're in great position to come out with a real player.

i think the kant-miss prospect you missed is young Enes, who looks every bit and better the prospect that Kevin Love was.