Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[Johnny Bball]

Riiiight...Barnes succeeds and its going to be all Barnes, Barnes fails, blame his trainer and everyone else. It's already started.

Look...If Barnes doesn't get better its 100% on Scottie Barnes.

Sorta like how you blamed everyone except Fred about the locker room issues, his inefficient shooting, tunnel vision, garbage defense, stat padding. Thing is we have a reason to be excited about a third year blue chip prospect who hasn’t been given his fair shake yet while you had no reason to defend Freddy Allstar tooth and nail.

You are one of the ring leaders for the irrational, obsessive and emotional Fred hate so you aren't the guy that has much credibility here.

Most people here acknowledge that Barnes is a really good player, has all-star potential, and has a lot to improve upon. It's really not that controversial at all.

Not sure why you are saying he hasn't been given his fair shake. We had have a ton of injuries the last two seasons. All the advanced stats show Barnes benefitted from playing beside Fred and his on and off numbers were better with Fred. One of my critiques was that when we did have injuries and Barnes had a chance to elevate his role he tended to be passive and defer too much on offense. However, I think we could all say that when Barnes was aggressive he was dominant and looked unstoppable some games. So I'm hoping he can keep that aggressive mindset consistently.

Its equally ridiculous to blame FVV or even Siakam for Barnes not getting a fair shake. Its past that to downright childish. If Barnes didn't get the ball its because Nurse didn't follow through with it. FVV was supposed to be moved off ball more and Nurse never stuck with it. If anyone wants to pretend FVV or Siakam just ignored Nurse, took the ball and ran the offense, and high-jacked everything, all game long (not part of it, literally all game, every game) and didn't ever put it in the hands of the guy they were supposd to in Barnes, that's downright idiotic. Anyone wants to blame anyone for any lack of development for Barnes besides Barnes last year, then grow up, the only guy you can blame for not giving him the ball more is the guy that was in charge of it all, Nurse. Nurse says Barnes gets the ball every play, even in a **** locker room, Barnes is getting the ball nearly every play. There would be selfish excpeptions from other guys, but it wouldn't be everyone else starting/running the plays all the time and never Barnes.

Yet some of these same people literally pretending and defending Nurse now, just because they prefer to keep blaming FVV.

As for me blaming everyone esle for locker room problems besides FVV, that's a complete lie. I've blamed one other person and one only and that is the Coach. The guy that never fixed any of the problems. Do I invent problems on that team because I need to be a drama filled stan that points fingers at every other player just to reinforce his bent narrative? Yeah I'm not the one that's doing that. Nurse lost the room and that's one fact we have.

[TheGeneral99]

Sorta like how you blamed everyone except Fred about the locker room issues, his inefficient shooting, tunnel vision, garbage defense, stat padding. Thing is we have a reason to be excited about a third year blue chip prospect who hasn’t been given his fair shake yet while you had no reason to defend Freddy Allstar tooth and nail.

You are one of the ring leaders for the irrational, obsessive and emotional Fred hate so you aren't the guy that has much credibility here.

Most people here acknowledge that Barnes is a really good player, has all-star potential, and has a lot to improve upon (which is completely normal for a bit of a raw 3rd year player). It's really not that controversial at all.

Not sure why you are saying he hasn't been given his fair shake. We had have a ton of injuries the last two seasons. All the advanced stats show Barnes benefitted from playing beside Fred and his on and off numbers were better with Fred. One of my critiques was that when we did have injuries and Barnes had a chance to elevate his role he tended to be passive and defer too much on offense. However, I think we could all say that when Barnes was aggressive he was dominant and looked unstoppable some games. So I'm hoping he can keep that aggressive mindset consistently.

That being said, I am also hoping that Barnes can eventually become a full time PG. It's unclear whether he is good enough to run a team full-time or is best suited for the point forward role like Green and Jokic. Only time will tell.

Most of the other talented prospects from his class haven’t had to take a back seat with a role player with a Napoleon complex hijacking the team masquerading as an allstar for two years, (aside from Mobley, but Garland and Mitchell are worth it). How do you pick a top 4 prospect and don’t even run plays for him and have him produce off broken plays and or spot possessions. Move him around the team and change his role constantly and expect him to be consistent.

The kid hasn’t even had his first season as a top 2 option yet and his haters are already making proclamations about supposed failures that are bound to happen according to them.

This is the kind of post I expected of you as one of the obsessive and irrational ring leaders of the anti-Fred conglomerate.

"Hijacking the team" and "masquerading as an all-star." You expect people to take you seriously when you put forth such garbage analysis? It's statements like these, completely devoid of any actual analysis, that sometimes make this board completely unreadable at times.

I also love how you talk about producing off broken plays and spot possessions, when Fred was routinely given the ball late in the shot clock to create something out of nothing. It's like you didn't even watch the games. And to preface, I'm not excusing Fred for his flaws - he has flaws. His lack of a mid-range game/floater, his tunnel vision and difficulty finishing drives and his subpar shooting last year all deserve legitimate critique. Your critique isn't legitimate, it's complete nonsense.

Barnes had plenty of opportunities last year to assert himself as more of a scoring option, but he didn't take the mantle. The issue was that he wasn't aggressive enough, which is something many of us pointed out. That could be due to his unselfish nature, his conditioning or both. This is not me saying that Barnes is bad or that I don't like Barnes, it's a reasonable critique. I'm on the record stating that I believe Barnes is fantastic, he's still very young and raw, and his a ton of potential to become a perennial all-star in this league.

The irony here is that any defense of Fred gets labelled as giving him every excuse in the book when I am simply defending him for terrible critiques like you make. On the same token, any small critique of Barnes' (not his character) game gets this crazy backlash from you and making weird generalized statements that we are these crazy defenders of Fred who hate Barnes. Like wtf is this crap. It's nonsense.

I'm not the biggest fan of Fred but I can acknowledge his strengths and weaknesses without delving into this conspiracy rabbit hole.

At the same time I'm really high on Barnes, but I can also acknowledge some of his deficiencies and limitations.

[Jcity08]

Im almost certain Barnes is going to take another step in his game this season. I can't wait.

[niQ]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[HiJiNX]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

[will]

Lemme get in my obligatory Scottish, baybeee!!!!!

[will]

Im almost certain Barnes is going to take another step in his game this season. I can't wait.

All in on the Scottish propaganda.

Lets go!!!!

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

[will]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

Scottish does actually look rather lean there in that video. Pause.

It's all fun and games shooting without any opponents in a gym during the offseason. Like you, I will get excited when he delivers in games.

[MoMan24]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

The good thing is Barnes doesn't need a really quick release or to be a knock down shooter. He is just needs a respectable shot to complement his scoring inside and playmaking. Its crazy how good he is while being so raw in the skill areas.

[Son Goku 25]

Crazy how much his shot has improved since college and he already had a great feel for the game. If we can somehow put in that Giannis aggressiveness and tenacity he'd probably be a HOF himself. Even a guy like Demar man cuz Scottie had all the physical tools to be great. He needs to bring it every game though and not take quarters off I think being in better shape and just getting more feel of the NBA game should help.

[MoMan24]

Crazy how much his shot has improved since college and he already had a great feel for the game. If we can somehow put in that Giannis aggressiveness and tenacity he'd probably be a HOF himself. Even a guy like Demar man cuz Scottie had all the physical tools to be great. He needs to bring it every game though and not take quarters off I think being in better shape and just getting more feel of the NBA game should help.

Some of the effort stuff was on him. I also think with Fred and Siakam and OG and Gary all wanting shots and the ball and were gunning for contracts and career years and he really tried to fit in and be a glue guy. Someone has to be a connector and sacrifice. He played center and was a screen setter at one point. With Fred/Nurse gone and coach Darko who truly believes in him we will for sure see more out of Scottie. More on ball, more scoring, more playmaking, more leadership. The environment last year made it almost impossible for development. Lastly lets hope Scottie is healthy for training and to start the year unlike last year.

[Raps in 4]

Scottie is going to shoot 38% from 3 this season on 5 3PA.

[Mikistan]

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

The good thing is Barnes doesn't need a really quick release or to be a knock down shooter. He is just needs a respectable shot to complement his scoring inside and playmaking. Its crazy how good he is while being so raw in the skill areas.

The video doesn't show his feet or enough of his body after release but also need to consider these are drive pull up 3pters with his toes almost on the 3pt line, so context is these are size up or open court 3pters where the defender is backing up and Scottie had passing options.

Form wise it looks like more of a set shot.. not a deep 3 at all, and he isn't jumping forward or very high so from wise at his height it's more about hand placement and flick/elbow consistency at his height not like us amateurs who need to focus on compound body movements to Huck the ball up there , that said we can all agree game speed and live defender feel a bit different to this video

[ForeverTFC]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

Wasn't our coaching staff/Noah saying that hitting back rim is actually better than swishing?

EDIT: Looks like backrim and swish both good. We'll take that! https://www.noahbasketball.com/blog/the-science-of-shooting-depth

[HumbleRen]

My goal for him is to shoot 80% from the FT and 34% from 3.

I’m okay with him being a bad pull up 3 shooter for now but if he can be league average with wide open catch and shoot 3’s. It’ll be a huge boost to the offence.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

A youtube I watched recently had some stats saying he was left wide open pretty frequently and had one of the lowest wide open 3 pt %s last year, so he'll be taking quite a step if he were to improve to league average.

[HiJiNX]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

Def looks leaner.

[Tha Cynic]

I still have issues with his form. Elbow still sticks out a bit (but maybe he’s like me and does that to compensate for long arms haha). But that’s a small thing. What I don’t like is he’s still doing this thing where he’s sitting into a chair on the dip…shoulders aren’t above his knees which you’d like for balance and consistency, but again, maybe it’s because his legs are so long.

Until he starts making em in games against NBA competition I won’t get excited, though. However, I do like that of the ten threes shown here, eight were swishes. Then you watch Siakam practice and he’s making a bunch but hitting a lot of back rim or rattling them down, which may seem like a nitpicky thing but it matters when the games are real.

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

Def looks leaner.

Yeah, I felt he was too bulky to be what he wants to be. He doesn't need to be built like OG of he's going to play like a guard and hopefully it helps with his stamina too.

[Godaddycurse]

I had issues with Reggie Millers form lol

I agree though. Nothing to get excited about until he delivers in games. I have faith though.

As an aside does he look leaner to anyone else?

Def looks leaner.

Yeah, I felt he was too bulky to be what he wants to be. He doesn't need to be built like OG of he's going to play like a guard and hopefully it helps with his stamina too.

He was asked to play the five a bunch last year. This year we have Poeltl so he can focus on his conditioning more/dont need those extra lbs