2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Kevin Willis]

I think someone compared Coulibaly to TMac, and while that would be an exciting outcome I don’t see it. One thing I will say is, he seems as though there is an untapped god tier with him just like Giannis. I know that’s a huge claim to make, but it just seems like he can have a massive breakout if the stars align.

That was me but I was comparing HS T-Mac with JV Bilal. How easy the game seemed to them. The length, smoothness and calm.

I thought Giannis at first but Giannis can't really shoot. Bilal can. I do think there is another tier to him, I think he needs to be really challenged. This is the first time I noticed Bilal and thought who is this guy, he's playing well but looks calm, kind of sleepy.

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[Dalek]

After watching Jamal Murray regain his form this post-season, I am feeling those Bubble Jamal vibes again. There is just something about the combo of step-backs, pull-up jumpers and the drives. Jamal made his drives count and he met loads of contact each time he went in. Honestly, you see the huge value of guards in the playoffs - Murray, Edwards, Booker all help to create so much offense when things break down.

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Jamal in college was not quite as stocky and looks even a bit more spry:

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Keyonte George is like Murray, he won't wow you with speed, but he has a strong/stocky build and he has the same type of craft. This video you see a lot of the same craft as Murray who I think Keyonte can top out as although his efficiency will have to improve:

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Murray @ Kentucky .283 FTr 8 REB% 12 AST% 1.6 STL% .59 TS% 9.5 BPM (1.4 DBPM)
George @ Baylor .365 FTr 9 REB% 20 AST% 2.3 STL% .52 ST% 5 BPM (1.1 DBPM)

Murray was younger and a better scorer, but Keyonte shows some defense, getting to the line and of course some passing chops.

Kind of interesting to look at shot numbers which show how much greenlight top guys get:
Murray shot 277 three making 113
George shot 228 three making 77

The only guy in Murray's range is Jordan Hawkins shot 281 threes making 109, but he is not creating as much as being a C&S guy. The is the main reason why I rate George higher because he creates most of his offense like Murray.

[OakleyDokely]

George's numbers were better before the injury against Texas.

Prior to that game, he had splits of 39 fg / 36 3pt / 80 ft / 54 TS on the season.

After that game, he was a disaster posting splits of 23/19/68 to end the season.

[Dalek]

I still think Maxwell Lewis is the single best year 1 G-league candidate for any team to draft and develop. This kid shows incredible flashes of 3 level scoring and is a late bloomer. Would have loved to have seen him transfer schools and play out his junior year.

He is slow to process things still but if he ever becomes a guy who processes the action faster and things start clicking in terms of reads and decisiveness he has the underlying ability to be an all-star in the NBA. There no is way in which this guy cannot score you watch him and he will score from every spot on the floor in every way imaginable it's incredible. His handle can get sloppy at times and that really bothers me though.

If I have a pick to use as a luxury I'm taking him and trying to develop him for 2-3 years. It's hard to get a read on his trajectory but out of all the north american project picks to take a risk on later in the draft I would take it on him. He needs an organization that will bring him along slowly and push him to get better on the defensive side of the ball.

I think he ends up in the second round because the defensive showing was pretty poor (-0.3 DBPM) and his game on offense needs a lot of work despite those flashes that show some advanced shot creation. Consider that he will be 21 at the start of the next NBA season and a guy like Brandon Boston is 21 and has two years of playing under his belt with the Clips and he barely gets to play despite all of that talent.

Not gonna disagree with that, there are a lot more guys who are closer to being NBA ready with much higher floors (Lewis has a very low floor - typical boom or bust prospect) so I can see him going in the 2nd but damn, the stuff he does on the offensive end is impressive. There are guys who you say if they put it all together they'll be a decent/serviceable player but if Lewis puts it all together he will definitely be an all-star. It's really the defense that looks like it could hold him back from ever succeeding but it's not like he doesn't have the length and tools. He needs to go to a really good organization.

It is too bad Toronto prioritizes defense so much because he offers some fun swing skills you could see the flashes with him being a playmaking/scoring SF. I agree Lewis has physical tools but a lot of his film he looks disengaged on that end.

I came across this post that shows a few scouts checking Lewis and Podz out earlier this year:

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[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I'd be screaming from the rooftops to draft Keyonte if he had scored the ball as well as Murray did his freshman season because I'd be more comfortable with him only really having to overcome his passing as the major hurdle and not both his passing and shooting/shot selection. The defense wasn't great either which is a red flag which I would only excuse if he had shown truly advanced offensive ability. The concern I have with him is that he'll be a black hole on offense and a turnover machine.

There is a narrative that Keyonte "flashes playmaking upside" but I think I said it before, some of the worst passes I have witnessed from projected 1st round picks this year have been from Keyonte George. You will not see them in highlight videos. He is a really bad passer which ruins any enthusiasm I would have for him as an on-ball creator. His turnovers are laughable at times with how bad they are.

Yes he's a guy who can bail you out of late shot clock situations sometimes but his efficiency numbers are concerning especially when comparing him to guys like Jamal Murray. George is a bit of a chucker and you don't want a guy who will rat his way into your lineup and start chucking at bad percentages and maintain his position as a starter due to his "potential" which never gets realized all the while being glorified by the fans and media while his advanced stats (namely in Keyonte's case shooting %s, TO% and defensive metrics) demonstrate that he is a losing player.

[niQ]

I'd be screaming from the rooftops to draft Keyonte if he had scored the ball as well as Murray did his freshman season because I'd be more comfortable with him only really having to overcome his passing as the major hurdle and not both his passing and shooting/shot selection. The defense wasn't great either which is a red flag which I would only excuse if he had shown truly advanced offensive ability. The concern I have with him is that he'll be a black hole on offense and a turnover machine.

There is a narrative that Keyonte "flashes playmaking upside" but I think I said it before, some of the worst passes I have witnessed from projected 1st round picks this year have been from Keyonte George. You will not see them in highlight videos. He is a really bad passer which ruins any enthusiasm I would have for him as an on-ball creator. His turnovers are laughable at times with how bad they are.

Yes he's a guy who can bail you out of late shot clock situations sometimes but his efficiency numbers are concerning especially when comparing him to guys like Jamal Murray. George is a bit of a chucker and you don't want a guy who will rat his way into your lineup and start chucking at bad percentages and maintain his position as a starter due to his "potential" which never gets realized all the while being glorified by the fans and media while his advanced stats (namely in Keyonte's case shooting %s, TO% and defensive metrics) demonstrate that he is a losing player.

That's essentially the catch-22 with all the prospects with offensive upside. Everyone wants to draft someone who can score, who can shoot. By trying to do those things, they'll be labelled a chucker. And rookies typically have pretty bad percentages adjusting to the league.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I'd be screaming from the rooftops to draft Keyonte if he had scored the ball as well as Murray did his freshman season because I'd be more comfortable with him only really having to overcome his passing as the major hurdle and not both his passing and shooting/shot selection. The defense wasn't great either which is a red flag which I would only excuse if he had shown truly advanced offensive ability. The concern I have with him is that he'll be a black hole on offense and a turnover machine.

There is a narrative that Keyonte "flashes playmaking upside" but I think I said it before, some of the worst passes I have witnessed from projected 1st round picks this year have been from Keyonte George. You will not see them in highlight videos. He is a really bad passer which ruins any enthusiasm I would have for him as an on-ball creator. His turnovers are laughable at times with how bad they are.

Yes he's a guy who can bail you out of late shot clock situations sometimes but his efficiency numbers are concerning especially when comparing him to guys like Jamal Murray. George is a bit of a chucker and you don't want a guy who will rat his way into your lineup and start chucking at bad percentages and maintain his position as a starter due to his "potential" which never gets realized all the while being glorified by the fans and media while his advanced stats (namely in Keyonte's case shooting %s, TO% and defensive metrics) demonstrate that he is a losing player.

That's essentially the catch-22 with all the prospects with offensive upside. Everyone wants to draft someone who can score, who can shoot. By trying to do those things, they'll be labelled a chucker. And rookies typically have pretty bad percentages adjusting to the league.

Oh sure, but the overwhelming majority of the rookies actually seeing NBA floors will have been coming off of college campaigns where there was evidence of efficiency. In Keyonte's case, there was none.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Keyonte would be lucky to come into the league and put up a season like Jaden Ivey's (with lower assist totals) and I hold Ivey in low regard.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Basically I view Keyonte as a guy who will not score well from the 2, could possibly get his 3 pt % up to 38-40% eventually, could get to the line 6-7 times per 36 and who can be at least a neutral value defender. If he becomes a volume 3 guy like that he will get his TS% to a decent level but the lack of defensive upside, 2pt efficiency and the way I regard him as a passer/playmaker really sour my projection on him.

[OakleyDokely]

I can see Keyonte having a Levert type impact in the NBA.

[Dalek]

I think Keyonte is a old school bucket-getter and his shot would be more efficient in time because form-wise I love it.

The swing skill is his case as a defender. He has quick lateral movement plus he is solidly built so he is a pest. He had a good steal percentage as well:

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Aside from the scoring, I just see an impactful player who even against tough defending teams like Kansas State, he still draws fouls and impacts the game even if his shot is not falling:

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I won't sugarcoat the ugly - he has bad turnovers and bad shot selection, but he is a bit like Scottie in that he takes some risks and you have to live with it. I prefer that over a guy with a perfect assist-to-turnover ratio that doesn't move the needle. Like he doesnutty stuff like this offhand crosscourt dime:

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[ATLTimekeeper]

I think he got hyped out of a basketball factory and underwhelmed. End of first round risk.

[Psubs]

I can see Keyonte having a Levert type impact in the NBA.

LeVert is garbage now.

[Psubs]

Keyonte would be lucky to come into the league and put up a season like Jaden Ivey's (with lower assist totals) and I hold Ivey in low regard.

I think Keyonte could be Kevin Porter Jr who has a decent amount of assists but also turnovers, but ends up being a combo guard. He'll get to play if a bad team drafts him. Well on a crappy team he's actually putting up 19/5.5/5.5

[grant101]

I think someone compared Coulibaly to TMac, and while that would be an exciting outcome I don’t see it. One thing I will say is, he seems as though there is an untapped god tier with him just like Giannis. I know that’s a huge claim to make, but it just seems like he can have a massive breakout if the stars align.

That was me but I was comparing HS T-Mac with JV Bilal. How easy the game seemed to them. The length, smoothness and calm.

I thought Giannis at first but Giannis can't really shoot. Bilal can. I do think there is another tier to him, I think he needs to be really challenged. This is the first time I noticed Bilal and thought who is this guy, he's playing well but looks calm, kind of sleepy.

Watch on YouTube

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I agree with this, and with the comp. Whether Bilal continues to grow, add strength and and blossoms as much as TMAC is another question. But, as someone that lived through TMAC's rookie year (possibly the worst year of Raptors basketball), I think the comparison is valid. Both are diamonds in the rough that have a smoothness to their game that somehow hides just how explosive an athelete they are.

The Damien Ingles comp is whack. Damien wasn't even half the athelete. The guy could barely jump. Also, I think international competition and scouting has advanced a bunch since those days.

[Psubs]

I think that Bilal is Bruno with a quicker first step and the 4 years of experience more, so his floor is prime Bruno.

As for Keyonte George, Terquavion might be able to give 80% of what he is and only cost a pick at the end of the 1st or early 2nd rounder. Podz should be drafted before either of those 2.

[Kevin Willis]

I think someone compared Coulibaly to TMac, and while that would be an exciting outcome I don’t see it. One thing I will say is, he seems as though there is an untapped god tier with him just like Giannis. I know that’s a huge claim to make, but it just seems like he can have a massive breakout if the stars align.

That was me but I was comparing HS T-Mac with JV Bilal. How easy the game seemed to them. The length, smoothness and calm.

I thought Giannis at first but Giannis can't really shoot. Bilal can. I do think there is another tier to him, I think he needs to be really challenged. This is the first time I noticed Bilal and thought who is this guy, he's playing well but looks calm, kind of sleepy.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=SportsCenterNEXT

I agree with this, and with the comp. Whether Bilal continues to grow, add strength and and blossoms as much as TMAC is another question. But, as someone that lived through TMAC's rookie year (possibly the worst year of Raptors basketball), I think the comparison is valid. Both are diamonds in the rough that have a smoothness to their game that somehow hides just how explosive an athelete they are.

The Damien Ingles comp is whack. Damien wasn't even half the athelete. The guy could barely jump. Also, I think international competition and scouting has advanced a bunch since those days.

Damien Ingles was horrible, just horrible. Damien was also a little bit robotic. Horrible take.

[Dalek]

Masai should consider doing some deals with the Nets who have hot interest in Rupert. Would anyone consider a drop to get picks 21 and 22 for 13?

Back in late January, before the Nets roster went all kerflooey, Sean Marks flew all the way to Australia and New Zealand to take a look at a 6’7” 18-year-old wing with a 7’3” wingspan named Rayan Rupert, Marks presence got some attention.

According to NZ Stuff report on the game in Auckland, New Zealand, coincidentally or not Marks hometown, the Nets GM appeared quite interesting:

Marks is keen to look closely at the Breakers’ French import Rayan Rupert, who is expected to be selected in midway through the first round of this year’s NBA draft, and he also went to see him in the Breakers’ win in Brisbane on Thursday...

Rupert, who’s working out with Tim Martin in Texas (who is also Nic Claxton’s trainer), then noted — apparently without being asked — that he’s been watching a lot of Nets because his favorite player plays in Brooklyn.

“I’m watching a lot of Nets games. My favorite player is Mikal Bridges,” he said. “He plays with great energy and can do everything on the court. He used to be a ‘3-and-D player’ like me, but now he is a franchise player. I love everything about him.”

https://www.netsdaily.com/2023/4/19/23690068/is-french-wing-lobbying-the-nets-to-take-him-in-nba-draft

Personally, if Wallace and Black are off the board I would trade back to get the Brooklyn picks. People love Sidy and Bilal, so you could likely end up with one, plus a high floor guy like Podz or Colby Jones or Strawther.

[Mark_83]

I don't think Coulibaly will go top 10 in this draft (at least I hope not for our sake). But I have been saying for a while now that I believe in a redraft he will be one of the 10 best players from this draft and I stand by that. He looks like a mix of Mikal Bridges, OG, and Middleton.

[Mark_83]

I think Keyonte is a old school bucket-getter and his shot would be more efficient in time because form-wise I love it.

The swing skill is his case as a defender. He has quick lateral movement plus he is solidly built so he is a pest. He had a good steal percentage as well:

Read on Twitter

Aside from the scoring, I just see an impactful player who even against tough defending teams like Kansas State, he still draws fouls and impacts the game even if his shot is not falling:

Read on Twitter

I won't sugarcoat the ugly - he has bad turnovers and bad shot selection, but he is a bit like Scottie in that he takes some risks and you have to live with it. I prefer that over a guy with a perfect assist-to-turnover ratio that doesn't move the needle. Like he doesnutty stuff like this offhand crosscourt dime:

Read on Twitter

I want to see how George measures out at the combine. That and whether he rediscovers some of the bounce he had in high school will dictate how I project him.