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Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1761 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:09 pm

Scase wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
Scase wrote:The thing with IQ is, that even if he regresses to the mean, that's still not a particularly impactful player, nor is it worth the salary that we've given him. We gave him a contract based on imaginary performance, and a hope that he will grow into it, we shouldn't be celebrating his poor performance helping the tank, the injuries are what we should be "happy" about helping the tank.

I still think he can get better, but I've always thought the contract was an overpay. He's definitely a longer term piece than RJ, but that's not really much of a compliment.

Lastly, we can't say forget about the past mistakes, if they are the exact reason we are here. Not to mention that one of those mistakes, arguably the biggest, happened relatively recently.

You don't think IQ would be worth the pay equivalent of a 3rd-ish option in his prime?

So far he has shown he is at a minimum going to be a a 19/7 type guy, with room to grow if he adds some more to his game (which is completely possible as a guy who has been a PG, let alone a starter, for 40ish games).

His contract really is fine, with the potential to be a bit of a bargain if he develops how Toronto has developed their players in the past. "A contract based on imaginery performance". Welcome to signing players coming off their rookie deal.

He has not shown he would be that "at minimum", he's also going to be 26 in 5 months, so no I don't expect him to develop like past players. Signing players off their rookie deals for big contracts usually isn't something you get concerned about for lotto picks, not 25th OA picks.


Well he gave us 18.6/6.7 last year in his first season ever being a full-time PG, and so far this year per 36 (as he has left a lot of games hurt) he is at 19.4/8.5

"he is going to be 26 in 5 months" is a long winded way of just saying "he is 25" :lol:

IQ is fine, I'm not saying he is some major issue with the team, but I'm not also going to blow smoke up my own ass and pretend like he's got some major room for growth and development. If you want to, be my guest but I'm not someone who gets blown away by 30-40 game sample sizes, you clearly do.

Do I seriously have to go find the "Siakam is historically the worst shooter of all time" thread you made based on like 25 games???

IQ also was a guy who was scoring at a 22pt/per 36 clip on 60TS% in NYK. To act like he does not have the potential to improve upon that, especially when he almost doubled his assist rate last year when being traded while not increasing his turnovers, and again this year has increased his assist rate, suggests there is still improvement being made.

No, he is not going to be a superstar. But you said he is "not worth the salary we paid him" which is a **** wild statement to make considering you seem to have a crystal ball to know how the next 5 seasons is going to look.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1762 » by ATLTimekeeper » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:09 pm

TorontoBarneys wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Since IQ's return Scottie has been really good not being the main PG. Super small sample of 5 games but.

23.2/7.8/5.2 on .567/.412 and 1.6 steals and 1.2 blocks


These are all-nba numbers. Here's hoping he can keep it up.


Once the schedule lightens up he's going to look like Luka, so he may get there.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1763 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:10 pm

TorontoBarneys wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Since IQ's return Scottie has been really good not being the main PG. Super small sample of 5 games but.

23.2/7.8/5.2 on .567/.412 and 1.6 steals and 1.2 blocks


These are all-nba numbers. Here's hoping he can keep it up.

And hopefully puts the bed this idea among some that he is a PG. He is a good, maybe even great, playmaker but PG he is not.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1764 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:10 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
TorontoBarneys wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Since IQ's return Scottie has been really good not being the main PG. Super small sample of 5 games but.

23.2/7.8/5.2 on .567/.412 and 1.6 steals and 1.2 blocks


These are all-nba numbers. Here's hoping he can keep it up.


Once the schedule lightens up he's going to look like Luka, so he may get there.

A bottom 5 team wont have an all-nba guy
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1765 » by HumbleRen » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:23 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Yes, one game proves everything :roll:


Sure if you ignore the fact that one guy has never been better than the other player at any point in their career. :lol:

So you think Garland instead of Quickley would significantly change our future?

That is the entire question here that you seem to ignore.


Yes, I think having 2 young all star caliber players as a building block drastically changes our outlook compared to having just one all star caliber player.

We don’t even know if IQ can even be a lead guard. I don’t fault Masai for taking a chance on him, I’m not closing the book on him either but having an actual PG vs hoping an older combo guard can be a lead guard is a pretty big difference in how you plan out building a winning roster.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1766 » by HumbleRen » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:24 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=46

He was putting up these numbers before the ankle injury. Hoping he can get back to form as he continues to heal up. Still not happy with his lack of rim attempts but that mid range shot is looking pure.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1767 » by ArthurVandelay » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:32 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

He was putting up these numbers before the ankle injury. Hoping he can get back to form as he continues to heal up. Still not happy with his lack of rim attempts but that mid range shot is looking pure.


Man...that seems like seasons ago.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1768 » by HumbleRen » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:42 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

He was putting up these numbers before the ankle injury. Hoping he can get back to form as he continues to heal up. Still not happy with his lack of rim attempts but that mid range shot is looking pure.


Man...that seems like seasons ago.


It was certainly a long month.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1769 » by Scase » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:58 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:Well he gave us 18.6/6.7 last year in his first season ever being a full-time PG, and so far this year per 36 (as he has left a lot of games hurt) he is at 19.4/8.5

"he is going to be 26 in 5 months" is a long winded way of just saying "he is 25" :lol:


No, it's a rather simplistic way to say that our season ends in 3 months, and when he next steps foot on an NBA court he will be a 26 year old 6 year NBA vet.

Do I seriously have to go find the "Siakam is historically the worst shooter of all time" thread you made based on like 25 games???

IQ also was a guy who was scoring at a 22pt/per 36 clip on 60TS% in NYK. To act like he does not have the potential to improve upon that, especially when he almost doubled his assist rate last year when being traded while not increasing his turnovers, and again this year has increased his assist rate, suggests there is still improvement being made.

No, he is not going to be a superstar. But you said he is "not worth the salary we paid him" which is a **** wild statement to make considering you seem to have a crystal ball to know how the next 5 seasons is going to look.


Yeah be my guest, maybe for the 50th time you might be able to learn to read the entire title and post instead of picking and choosing what to absorb and remember. But hey let me get that started for you.

Siakam is shooting the 3 at a historically bad rate, and has a chance to be one of the worst in NBA history.


The only real caveat here is that this is based on his current shot diet/rate, so naturally any major changes to that will throw this all out of whack.


Good thing being traded to a completely different team with spacing (which is exactly what he needed) doesn't count as a change right? Jesus christ give it up already, you can't or choose not to read.

You know I thought after seeing a couple of people quote your posts responding to me, they sounded rather grounded, and I figured I'd take you off the foes list, guess I was wrong and back you go.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1770 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:01 pm

Scase wrote:[
You know I thought after seeing a couple of people quote your posts responding to me, they sounded rather grounded, and I figured I'd take you off the foes list, guess I was wrong and back you go.

"you don't agree with me so I am going to go back to my safe space" :lol:

You cant quote your own stuff and make "a chance" huge and then be upset when other people say stuff like "xyz COULD develop" in the future.

You seem to operate with a "rules for thee, but not for me" mindstate when it comes to sample size and projecting into the future.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1771 » by MEDIC » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:18 pm

720 wrote:


Absolutely love it. This is his game. Mid range & the odd 3. If he continues to play like this, he will be very valuable. You can see how the team could be built with him playing like this. If teams start doubling or tripling him on these shots, then he learns to find the 3 point shooters.

The one near the end of the game.......if he had shot it in rhythm & been assertive rather than passive.......I think that one would have gone in too.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1772 » by Raps in 4 » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:32 pm

720 wrote:


Scottie "Kobe Bryant" Barnes.

His mid-range is in a solid spot, but he needs to get the FTr up if he wants to be an efficient scorer without a 3P shot.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1773 » by Tripod » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:45 pm

That pass to Jak....was so nice...but was also a very hard pass. I was surprised Yak caught it clean.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1774 » by brownbobcat » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:59 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:They traded a boat load of picks for a guy that could’ve bailed and left them with nothing?

Where is Cleveland now if Mitchell’s wasn’t there?


And LOL at Allen “all star”. Worst all star of the last decade and was the 7th(!!!) injury replacement and onto because it was held in Cleveland :lol:

Allen's a decent young C who didn't cost a lottery pick - does Toronto have one of those?
How about All Stars who weren't injury replacements - does Toronto have one of those?

Cleveland traded for Mitchell with 3 years left on his contract, he could have easily been moved at any point for a good return. They were already battling for the playoffs before they got him, they risked very little.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1775 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:09 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:They traded a boat load of picks for a guy that could’ve bailed and left them with nothing?

Where is Cleveland now if Mitchell’s wasn’t there?


And LOL at Allen “all star”. Worst all star of the last decade and was the 7th(!!!) injury replacement and onto because it was held in Cleveland :lol:

Allen's a decent young C who didn't cost a lottery pick - does Toronto have one of those?
How about All Stars who weren't injury replacements - does Toronto have one of those?

Cleveland traded for Mitchell with 3 years left on his contract, he could have easily been moved at any point for a good return. They were already battling for the playoffs before they got him, they risked very little.


Your initial point was that it was not a gamble. Trading the guy you drafted in 2022 (Agbaji), Lauri Markkanen, along with every first rounder until 2030 for a guy with only 3 years on his deal for a team that was the 8 seed was 100% a gamble. Don't even try to re-write history and suggest otherwise.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1776 » by brownbobcat » Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:13 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:They traded a boat load of picks for a guy that could’ve bailed and left them with nothing?

Where is Cleveland now if Mitchell’s wasn’t there?


And LOL at Allen “all star”. Worst all star of the last decade and was the 7th(!!!) injury replacement and onto because it was held in Cleveland :lol:

Allen's a decent young C who didn't cost a lottery pick - does Toronto have one of those?
How about All Stars who weren't injury replacements - does Toronto have one of those?

Cleveland traded for Mitchell with 3 years left on his contract, he could have easily been moved at any point for a good return. They were already battling for the playoffs before they got him, they risked very little.


Your initial point was that it was not a gamble. Trading the guy you drafted in 2022 (Agbaji), Lauri Markkanen, along with every first rounder until 2030 for a guy with only 3 years on his deal for a team that was the 8 seed was 100% a gamble. Don't even try to re-write history and suggest otherwise.

I said/implied it was not a big gamble. They would have easily gotten assets back if Mitchell didn't work out. OK, let's say absolute worst case scenario and Mitchell leaves for nothing. They gave up Markkanen, Sexton, Agbaji, 2025 & 2027 & 2029 FRP and 2 swaps in 2026/2028 that look unlikely to convey. They still have Allen, Mobley, Garland, Okoro, Levert as their core - that's not any worse than what Toronto has right now.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1777 » by TorontoBarneys » Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:23 pm

Tripod wrote:That pass to Jak....was so nice...but was also a very hard pass. I was surprised Yak caught it clean.


Yak is like one of the few guys on the team who has the required synergy with Barnes, understands that he is in fact a very high level facilitator, and is ready for these passes, whereas newer guys are still dumbfounded that they can even happen.

One reason why I'm a bit hesitant on trading Poeltl no matter what... Barnes is seeing a revolving door of players and most of them are not good enough to truly help him out. No wonder people just default to hoping he'll transform into a volume scorer... because the alternative is passing to Shead for an air ball 3. Barnes has probably a very low assisted field goal percentage... Yak is like one of the few guys who can even find Barnes good looks.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1778 » by HumbleRen » Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:24 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Allen's a decent young C who didn't cost a lottery pick - does Toronto have one of those?
How about All Stars who weren't injury replacements - does Toronto have one of those?

Cleveland traded for Mitchell with 3 years left on his contract, he could have easily been moved at any point for a good return. They were already battling for the playoffs before they got him, they risked very little.


Your initial point was that it was not a gamble. Trading the guy you drafted in 2022 (Agbaji), Lauri Markkanen, along with every first rounder until 2030 for a guy with only 3 years on his deal for a team that was the 8 seed was 100% a gamble. Don't even try to re-write history and suggest otherwise.

I said/implied it was not a big gamble. They would have easily gotten assets back if Mitchell didn't work out. OK, let's say absolute worst case scenario and Mitchell leaves for nothing. They gave up Markkanen, Sexton, Agbaji, 2025 & 2027 & 2029 FRP and 2 swaps in 2026/2028 that look unlikely to convey. They still have Allen, Mobley, Garland, Okoro, Levert as their core - that's not any worse than what Toronto has right now.


Hence why I said having Garland in place or RJ or IQ would be a tangible difference in how we view our rebuild.

Cavs at bare minimum have 2 young guys who have all star capabilities that have proven they can be the 2 best players on a .500 team.

Having that luxury allows you to get a Donovan Mitchell for 3 more years + his bird rights without it crippling your long term flexibility.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1779 » by Vampirate » Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:26 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

He was putting up these numbers before the ankle injury. Hoping he can get back to form as he continues to heal up. Still not happy with his lack of rim attempts but that mid range shot is looking pure.


In that same span from 3

3-8
2-12
2-5
3-8
3-7

Averaging 2.6 makes and 8 attempts, 32.5%

I'm saying he's gone too much in the opposite direction, 12 shots is too much, but 2-4 attempts is too little.

The issue with him is he has games where over 50% of his shots are 3s, and now has games where only 10% of his shots are 3s.

He's just not drawing a good balance, also in the current past 5 games he's averaging 2.4 FTs a game, the middy is nice but he straight up needs to shoot the 3 more and get to the FT line more.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8 

Post#1780 » by Tha Cynic » Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:11 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

He was putting up these numbers before the ankle injury. Hoping he can get back to form as he continues to heal up. Still not happy with his lack of rim attempts but that mid range shot is looking pure.


Pretty much all of this is due to him no longer being the lead ballhandler trying to initiate from the perimeter. He's just as good as Siakam scoring from midrange. You just have to hope he eventually starts putting more pressure at the rim which he seems to have stopped since his most recent injury.

Slow and steady with him on offensive improvements and I prefer the mastering of midrange before expanding outside approach better. He plays on a team where no one else attracts much attention and that includes RJ and Quickley who are both very one dimensional scorers and don't pressure the defense much.

I think there's definite offensive improvements people are missing due to the poor perimeter shooting. He was never going to come in as some prolific scorer.
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