2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[mademan]

Combine Measurements:

Draymond Green: 6'5.75 w/o shoes, 7'1.25 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach, 235.6 lbs
C Murray-Boyles: 6'6.50 w/o shoes, 7'0.75 wingspan, 8'10 standing reach, 239.2 lbs

Draymond without Steph and Klay is an NBA footnote.

Sure. Where you go and the team matters, but Dray being a beast of a defender isnt because of them. He's arguably the best defender we've seen in modern NBA history, especially if you rate playoff defense highly (which i do).

[OakleyDokely]

Combine Measurements:

Draymond Green: 6'5.75 w/o shoes, 7'1.25 wingspan, 8'9 standing reach, 235.6 lbs
C Murray-Boyles: 6'6.50 w/o shoes, 7'0.75 wingspan, 8'10 standing reach, 239.2 lbs

Draymond without Steph and Klay is an NBA footnote.

Sure. Where you go and the team matters, but Dray being a beast of a defender isnt because of them. He's arguably the best defender we've seen in modern NBA history, especially if you rate playoff defense highly (which i do).

It's like saying Rodman is nothing without Pippen/MJ. Sure, but that doesn't take away from Rodman's overall impact on winning teams.

[mademan]

Draymond without Steph and Klay is an NBA footnote.

Sure. Where you go and the team matters, but Dray being a beast of a defender isnt because of them. He's arguably the best defender we've seen in modern NBA history, especially if you rate playoff defense highly (which i do).

It's like saying Rodman is nothing without Pippen/MJ. Sure, but that doesn't take away from Rodman's overall impact on winning teams.

Yup. Offense will always get the glory, but its important to remember that GSW was always a defensive team, and Curry/Klay is at best an average defensive backcourt. Dray certainly carried a large role in winning those titles, and comments like that are disrespectful of a HOFer and one of the best defenders of all time (and again, arguably the absolute GOAT on that end)

[OakleyDokely]

Draymond if anything is underrated.

Dude anchored a championship defense at 6 ft **** 5.

[Tripod]

CMB will be able to play some smallball C and he'll be able to guard most Fs and some guards on switches. Measurement wise, he's nearly identical to Draymond and he will probably be used very similarly to him.

Doesn't this also describe Mogbo?

Do we need 2 of them?

[OakleyDokely]

CMB will be able to play some smallball C and he'll be able to guard most Fs and some guards on switches. Measurement wise, he's nearly identical to Draymond and he will probably be used very similarly to him.

Doesn't this also describe Mogbo?

Do we need 2 of them?

CMB wouldn't be my first choice for the Raps at 9. I prefer him as a prospect over Queen though.

[Yallbecrazy]

For CMB you would need a new makeup of a team for him to fit....He would ideally play sim to Scottie Barnes....As long as Barnes is on the team CMB won't fit with us...He is not a C....Sure he can play spot mins there depending on matchups...But if you try and make CMB a C he is going to fail in the NBA....

With CMB you need a strecth Big like Turner to play with him and a bunch of shooters around him....Draymond would not be Draymond if he didn't have Curry/Klay....How usefull would a Draymond type be with a Barnes/Yak FC?....Prolly not the best fit....If we trade Barnes + RJ + W/e for Trae Young and Tyler Herro ...Now you can convince me CMB would be a good pick at 9.

Trae Young/Herro/Ingram/CMB/Turner....<Now thats a legit team
IQ/Barnes/Ingram/CMB/Yak?.....<No spacing, No 3 pt shooting bad fit....

You keep saying this, but Queen had really good spacing for college and CMB had awful spacing for college and CMB put up better numbers on much better efficiency offensively against better competition while being younger so why do you need all this to build around him offensively, but not Queen?

CMB is versatile so can play next to both defensively really well and since both Jakob and Scottie can both score in the post and pass they can play next to another that can do the same. You don't need 4 shooters on the court at the same time, you can get by with 3 if the others can do other things really well and aren't just dunkers.

[Yallbecrazy]

CMB will be able to play some smallball C and he'll be able to guard most Fs and some guards on switches. Measurement wise, he's nearly identical to Draymond and he will probably be used very similarly to him.

Doesn't this also describe Mogbo?

Do we need 2 of them?

Mogbo isn't as strong and can't rebound or defend against bigs in the post because of it. He also can't finish inside like CMB can.

[mademan]

CMB will be able to play some smallball C and he'll be able to guard most Fs and some guards on switches. Measurement wise, he's nearly identical to Draymond and he will probably be used very similarly to him.

Doesn't this also describe Mogbo?

Do we need 2 of them?

Mogbo isn't as strong and can't rebound or defend against bigs in the post because of it. He also can't finish inside like CMB can.

That's the big problem with Mogbo. It's not that he just cant shoot, it's that he has a poor touch at every spot on the floor, including the paint. CMB, ooh, is a great finisher around the rim.

[Tripod]

CMB will be able to play some smallball C and he'll be able to guard most Fs and some guards on switches. Measurement wise, he's nearly identical to Draymond and he will probably be used very similarly to him.

Doesn't this also describe Mogbo?

Do we need 2 of them?

Mogbo isn't as strong and can't rebound or defend against bigs in the post because of it. He also can't finish inside like CMB can.

Well in fairness, we don't know if CMB can either yet(the defending part).

I think you could finish better inside than Mogbo...lol. I certainly was only thinking the D side.

I guess for me, I view the draft tesults as:

Ideally you find a star...unlikely though
You find a guy who can eventually replace a current starter
You find a good rotation depth guy

Drafting CMB...where does he fall even if things go well? Does he actually replace Yak or Barnes on his next contract? Or are we just drafting a depth guy? Honestly question.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Clutch0z24]

For CMB you would need a new makeup of a team for him to fit....He would ideally play sim to Scottie Barnes....As long as Barnes is on the team CMB won't fit with us...He is not a C....Sure he can play spot mins there depending on matchups...But if you try and make CMB a C he is going to fail in the NBA....

With CMB you need a strecth Big like Turner to play with him and a bunch of shooters around him....Draymond would not be Draymond if he didn't have Curry/Klay....How usefull would a Draymond type be with a Barnes/Yak FC?....Prolly not the best fit....If we trade Barnes + RJ + W/e for Trae Young and Tyler Herro ...Now you can convince me CMB would be a good pick at 9.

Trae Young/Herro/Ingram/CMB/Turner....<Now thats a legit team
IQ/Barnes/Ingram/CMB/Yak?.....<No spacing, No 3 pt shooting bad fit....

You keep saying this, but Queen had really good spacing for college and CMB had awful spacing for college and CMB put up better numbers on much better efficiency offensively against better competition while being younger so why do you need all this to build around him offensively, but not Queen?

CMB is versatile so can play next to both defensively really well and since both Jakob and Scottie can both score in the post and pass they can play next to another that can do the same. You don't need 4 shooters on the court at the same time, you can get by with 3 if the others can do other things really well and aren't just dunkers.

Here is a look at the height difference....

I like CMB....Just think he has no chance to play C....Hes just too small....I think Queens shot will develop a little bit better than CMBs over their careers....And i think Queen is able to matchup better as a big man against the other bigs in the league....Even if Queen isn't a rim protector he blocks a decent amount of shots and also has good steal numbers...I think he could develop into a good team defender as his positioning gets developed and he uses his size and standing reach to help him out...

CMB to me is a PF/SF in the NBA...And he plays exactly like Barnes where as Queen you could play him multiple ways....

[djsunyc]

ok let's say we are up and kon and queen are there.

both project to be solid rotation pieces. both also don't project to be great defenders.

with that said, do you prefer taking a connective shooter on the wing or a big that can score in the block and pass?

the lack of defense from kon would hurt less than the lack of defense from queen.

kon would already add to a crowded rookie deal 2/3 on the roster while queen would fill a hole. kon would mean a trade will have to take place between jakobe/ochai/gradey.

queen would be the backup 4/5 right away.

or do you take neither and look at bryant, jak, etc?

[Clutch0z24]

Draymond without Steph and Klay is an NBA footnote.

Sure. Where you go and the team matters, but Dray being a beast of a defender isnt because of them. He's arguably the best defender we've seen in modern NBA history, especially if you rate playoff defense highly (which i do).

It's like saying Rodman is nothing without Pippen/MJ. Sure, but that doesn't take away from Rodman's overall impact on winning teams.

But thats saying CMB will develop to be one of the greatest defenders of a generation....If that is a for sure thing that CMB will be Green/Rodman impact on defense...Im sure he would be ranked higher....But there is a chance he isn't that good and then you have an undersized big who can't shoot...While being a good defender if he is not a Draymond/Rodman level hes just a meh role player to me....Unless he develops an offensive bag that he has yet to show.

[mademan]

ok let's say we are up and kon and queen are there.

both project to be solid rotation pieces. both also don't project to be great defenders.

with that said, do you prefer taking a connective shooter on the wing or a big that can score in the block and pass?

the lack of defense from kon would hurt less than the lack of defense from queen.

kon would already add to a crowded rookie deal 2/3 on the roster while queen would fill a hole. kon would mean a trade will have to take place between jakobe/ochai/gradey.

queen would be the backup 4/5 right away.

or do you take neither and look at bryant, jak, etc?

Take Kon and thank the draft gods that teams ahead of you reached. He's too good to pass up at 9 and none of our wing prospects are good enough to dissuade me from taking him. Take him and send Dick out for a later 1st and grab Sorber or Beringer

[Godaddycurse]

ok let's say we are up and kon and queen are there.

both project to be solid rotation pieces. both also don't project to be great defenders.

with that said, do you prefer taking a connective shooter on the wing or a big that can score in the block and pass?

the lack of defense from kon would hurt less than the lack of defense from queen.

kon would already add to a crowded rookie deal 2/3 on the roster while queen would fill a hole. kon would mean a trade will have to take place between jakobe/ochai/gradey.

queen would be the backup 4/5 right away.

or do you take neither and look at bryant, jak, etc?

Take Kon and thank the draft gods that teams ahead of you reached. He's too good to pass up at 9 and none of our wing prospects are good enough to dissuade me from taking him. Take him and send Dick out for a later 1st and grab Sorber or Beringer

I think teams would trade up for Kon, but not Queens. I would trade back and get one of bryant/fleming + a big

[OakleyDokely]

Sure. Where you go and the team matters, but Dray being a beast of a defender isnt because of them. He's arguably the best defender we've seen in modern NBA history, especially if you rate playoff defense highly (which i do).

It's like saying Rodman is nothing without Pippen/MJ. Sure, but that doesn't take away from Rodman's overall impact on winning teams.

But thats saying CMB will develop to be one of the greatest defenders of a generation....If that is a for sure thing that CMB will be Green/Rodman impact on defense...Im sure he would be ranked higher....But there is a chance he isn't that good and then you h2ave an undersized big who can't shoot...While being a good defender if he is not a Draymond/Rodman level hes just a meh role player to me....Unless he develops an offensive bag that he has yet to show.

I'm not saying that all.

I'm saying CMB style of play and fit is a lot more NBA friendly than Queens.

[Dalek]

No intel from me, but what does make sense for me is Utah being an ideal draft day trade partner with Toronto.

1. Utah has no need for the best prospect at 5 which would be Khaman Maluach. They are invested in Kessler and Lauri, but they could always use more shooting.

2. A trade down from 5 to 9 with Toronto including Gradey Dick for Taylor Hendricks. Utah saves some money with the 9 pick, gets a shooter in Dick that would be good for their offense and really is an ideal guy for Utah. Hendricks is a flyer for Toronto but fits our 6'9 mold but he ahs had some injuries and a slow start. Not the three and d guy they thought he would be.

3. There is enough media smoke about Toronto being interested in KM that I seriously doubt they wait for him to fall to 9 because there are a lot of teams from 6-8 that would take him.

4. Utah desperately needs good wing prospect that can defend and at 9 they can pick from CMB or Carter Bryant.

5. Ainge and Ujiri have recent history together with KO/Ochai deal.

Overall, it is tough to give up on Gradey because he is a good talent that has had big games, but the Raps have Walter, and AJ Lawson and Rhoden that have potential, not to mention that we might keep Barrett.

[Clutch0z24]

It's like saying Rodman is nothing without Pippen/MJ. Sure, but that doesn't take away from Rodman's overall impact on winning teams.

But thats saying CMB will develop to be one of the greatest defenders of a generation....If that is a for sure thing that CMB will be Green/Rodman impact on defense...Im sure he would be ranked higher....But there is a chance he isn't that good and then you h2ave an undersized big who can't shoot...While being a good defender if he is not a Draymond/Rodman level hes just a meh role player to me....Unless he develops an offensive bag that he has yet to show.

I'm not saying that all.

I'm saying CMB style of play and fit is a lot more NBA friendly than Queens.

Ok thats your opinion but lets not act like theres not a world where CMB also becomes a bad NBA player....Typically a small big man who can't shoot impact is very hard to project unless they have Green like all time great defensive upside....

[Psubs]

CMB is not the same size like CMB is 6'6" without shoes....6'7" With shoes....Queen is 6'10" in shoes....Thats a huge difference....Again just because Queen is not a rim protecting shot blocker does not mean he can't defend at all...Its a made up narrative....He is not useless on D...

Combine
Queen: 6'9.25 w/o shoes, 7'0.50 wingspan, 247.8 lbs
CMB: 6'6.5 w/o shoes, 7'0.75 wingspan, 239.2 lbs

What CMB lacks in height, he makes up with wingspan.

I didn't say Queen is useless. I said he won't be good enough to play as your lone big, if you want your defense to be good.

Height and Wingspan are 2 different things....For example Queen can actually body up against the 7 footers and not give up total position down there....CMB a 7 footer would tower over him...

CMB would be a sole SF/PF in the NBA....Queen will be a PF/C depending on matchups.

CMB looks strong while Queen looks weak. I'm guessing CMB would be more like Draymond in the post. Too bad they took away the 180lbs bench press at the combine.