ImageImageImageImageImage

Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

Moderators: HiJiNX, 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, DG88

GoRaptors
Freshman
Posts: 97
And1: 58
Joined: Aug 07, 2008

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1781 » by GoRaptors » Tue Aug 8, 2023 12:57 am

WaltFrazier wrote:Why aren't any of Mathurin, Nembhard and/or Sharpe on the roster? All have played for Canada U21 or U18.



After the last attempted run to the Olympics, The Canadian Basketalll group felt continuity was an issue and demanded a 3 year commitment from the NBA players. If the players committed then they would be given first priority if/when Canada makes the Olympics for the Olympic roster.. Nick Nurse received the 3 three year commitment from about 12 NBA players. Mathurin, Nembard and Sharpe were not in the NBA at that time and were not offered the opportunity.
Those 3 were not included in the preliminary lineup. However, I read there were invited as spectators to attend the initial practices that started about 1 week ago.
User avatar
WaltFrazier
RealGM
Posts: 35,240
And1: 32,432
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1782 » by WaltFrazier » Tue Aug 8, 2023 1:26 am

GoRaptors wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Why aren't any of Mathurin, Nembhard and/or Sharpe on the roster? All have played for Canada U21 or U18.



After the last attempted run to the Olympics, The Canadian Basketalll group felt continuity was an issue and demanded a 3 year commitment from the NBA players. If the players committed then they would be given first priority if/when Canada makes the Olympics for the Olympic roster.. Nick Nurse received the 3 three year commitment from about 12 NBA players. Mathurin, Nembard and Sharpe were not in the NBA at that time and were not offered the opportunity.
Those 3 were not included in the preliminary lineup. However, I read there were invited as spectators to attend the initial practices that started about 1 week ago.


I get that but I feel like they shouldn't have frozen that 3 year group. Each year they should add new young NBA stars into the mix especially as guys will drop out like Joseph and Brissett and maybe Murray. Then you have NBA players to fill in rather than guys from Europe
There goes my hero. Watch him as he goes.
GoRaptors
Freshman
Posts: 97
And1: 58
Joined: Aug 07, 2008

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1783 » by GoRaptors » Tue Aug 8, 2023 1:48 am

WaltFrazier wrote:
GoRaptors wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Why aren't any of Mathurin, Nembhard and/or Sharpe on the roster? All have played for Canada U21 or U18.



After the last attempted run to the Olympics, The Canadian Basketalll group felt continuity was an issue and demanded a 3 year commitment from the NBA players. If the players committed then they would be given first priority if/when Canada makes the Olympics for the Olympic roster.. Nick Nurse received the 3 three year commitment from about 12 NBA players. Mathurin, Nembard and Sharpe were not in the NBA at that time and were not offered the opportunity.
Those 3 were not included in the preliminary lineup. However, I read there were invited as spectators to attend the initial practices that started about 1 week ago.


I get that but I feel like they shouldn't have frozen that 3 year group. Each year they should add new young NBA stars into the mix especially as guys will drop out like Joseph and Brissett and maybe Murray. Then you have NBA players to fill in rather than guys from Europe



I can appreciate your position. However, adding new guys on a yearly basis would somewhat diminish the commitment of the European based players, who play an important role in qualifying, too as it gives them even less of a chance to make the team. And, once again I read that those NBA guys were invited to watch the practices.
mojo13
Veteran
Posts: 2,610
And1: 1,912
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1784 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 8, 2023 4:52 am

GoRaptors wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
GoRaptors wrote:

After the last attempted run to the Olympics, The Canadian Basketalll group felt continuity was an issue and demanded a 3 year commitment from the NBA players. If the players committed then they would be given first priority if/when Canada makes the Olympics for the Olympic roster.. Nick Nurse received the 3 three year commitment from about 12 NBA players. Mathurin, Nembard and Sharpe were not in the NBA at that time and were not offered the opportunity.
Those 3 were not included in the preliminary lineup. However, I read there were invited as spectators to attend the initial practices that started about 1 week ago.


I get that but I feel like they shouldn't have frozen that 3 year group. Each year they should add new young NBA stars into the mix especially as guys will drop out like Joseph and Brissett and maybe Murray. Then you have NBA players to fill in rather than guys from Europe



I can appreciate your position. However, adding new guys on a yearly basis would somewhat diminish the commitment of the European based players, who play an important role in qualifying, too as it gives them even less of a chance to make the team. And, once again I read that those NBA guys were invited to watch the practices.



I am fairly certain it didnt really unfold this way.
Yes guys like Sharpe, Mathurin and Nembhard were not even in the NBA when the 3 year cycle committment was asked for last year and, yes, they were not asked at the time. But there was plenty of chatter from Canada Basketball and the media that Nembhard and Muthirn are close to the program, wanted to play and would be invited to camp with an opportunity to make the team.
During their exit interviews with the Pacers they both said as much but also hemmed and hawwed about this being a big offseason and they may need to focus on that. It looks like that is what happened in the end - they likely turned down the camp invite.

Reality is it is very rare to get these young guys playing before they have their second contract, they are too focused on offeason improvement, health and eyeing that big generational wealth 2nd contract. SGA, Murray, Brooks etc never really played until that 2nd contract was landed. This is not always the case, but it is usually what happens.

Most following the team closely here never really expected Nembhard, Mathurin or Sharpe to play....but there was some wishful thinking about Nembhard and Mathurin because they are so publically supportive of Canada Basketball. Sharpe is more a quiter mystery man. Mathurin is not even needed here - Nembhard stings a little with CoJo and Pangos dropping out. It will sting more if Murray drops.

I think they could (should?) have had a bigger camp with more players, but I suspect they made it clear they were going with the Core 14 guys as priorities. And rightfully so, as they gave their mutual committment. And anyone else was only making the team if enough guys dropped out. I doubt established NBA guys like Boucher, Wiggins or Lyles (or Nembhard/Mathurin for that matter) likely didn't want to play that game and not be sure of their place on the team. Guys like the Scrubbs and TBH are probably cool with whatever happens thus the guys filling the holes are Winter Core guys.

Respect the NBA ego and everything that pulls these guys away from playing FIBA (health, contracts, family, NBA clubs, agents) and enjoy what we are seeing here.

This is still by far the best team Canada has ever floored.... any Canada team with SGA & Olynyk with NBA starter level guys around them is going to an excellent team. If Murray ends up playing this is a medal contender, but probably without him as well.

People need to chill out a little and just let it unfold.




Why do I feel this conversation is had every 2nd or 3rd page? At least it is not "wHeRe Is WiGgInS, HURRR!?!?"


Image
Yeezus_
RealGM
Posts: 11,034
And1: 14,118
Joined: Feb 18, 2009
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1785 » by Yeezus_ » Tue Aug 8, 2023 6:03 am

Where can I watch Wednesday’s exhibition game vs. Germany? Is it streaming anywhere?
Yeezy SZN approaching
aminiaturebuddha
Head Coach
Posts: 6,918
And1: 7,526
Joined: Aug 07, 2006

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1786 » by aminiaturebuddha » Tue Aug 8, 2023 1:24 pm

Hair Canada wrote:
aminiaturebuddha wrote:Out of all of these the one I'm surprisingly most concerned about is Robertson. It's even more imperative now that Murray plays, because without Pangos, Robertson would have been a guy to bring the important shooting element to the team.

A few of the guys who remain are decent shooters, but I wouldn't categorize any of them as "shooters". Robertson definitely is, and it would have been nice to have that skill as an option off the bench for moments when the shots aren't falling.


Given Robertson's current shooting form, I'm not too concerned about it. He's been quite bad in CEBL this season, with 10ppg and weak shooting. I'd rather have Phil Scrubb, who brings more experience in high-level FIBA competitions and I think is a better defender. Not that it should matter that much. Even if Robertson was able to make the team, he was unlikely to see much playing time and I'm not sure Phil would see many minutes as well.


Interesting, thanks for the update. I haven't watched any of the CEBL this year, so I didn't realize that Robertson's shooting had fallen off. Yes, his defence was always going to be a weak spot, but I quite liked him in a bunch of the qualifying games for Canada last year, as his shooting was an absolute weapon, and he showed much better ball-handling and creation abilities than I had previously seen from him. It's too bad to hear that he didn't build on that.
User avatar
DoctaJ
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,744
And1: 474
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
     

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1787 » by DoctaJ » Tue Aug 8, 2023 2:14 pm

mojo13 wrote:
DoctaJ wrote:Team Canada release says:

Basketball fans can watch Team Canada in action starting Friday, August 25, exclusively on Sportsnet and stream live via SN NOW. Full broadcast details to be announced at a later date.


I'm assuming the exhibition aren't going to be televised then. Anyone heard otherwise?


We've been looking hard to find a broadcast Canada's three FIBA friendlies in Germany this week. This is something
Sportsnet should be carrying in Canada as they have the rights to the World Cup, but for some reason arn't as of yet (pls give them a piece of your mind).

Best I can find so far is that the German rights holder is broadcasting the friendlies here:
https://www.magentasport.de/laenderspiele

You'll likely need to subscribe at 12 euros per month (then cancel) and it will likely be a German language broadcast. Will keep looking around, but Courtside 1891 doesn't show these games yet.


Thanks mojo. I sent an email this morning. And thanks for the german link - better than nothing.
User avatar
WaltFrazier
RealGM
Posts: 35,240
And1: 32,432
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
       

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1788 » by WaltFrazier » Tue Aug 8, 2023 4:33 pm

mojo13 wrote:
GoRaptors wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:
I get that but I feel like they shouldn't have frozen that 3 year group. Each year they should add new young NBA stars into the mix especially as guys will drop out like Joseph and Brissett and maybe Murray. Then you have NBA players to fill in rather than guys from Europe



I can appreciate your position. However, adding new guys on a yearly basis would somewhat diminish the commitment of the European based players, who play an important role in qualifying, too as it gives them even less of a chance to make the team. And, once again I read that those NBA guys were invited to watch the practices.



I am fairly certain it didnt really unfold this way.
Yes guys like Sharpe, Mathurin and Nembhard were not even in the NBA when the 3 year cycle committment was asked for last year and, yes, they were not asked at the time. But there was plenty of chatter from Canada Basketball and the media that Nembhard and Muthirn are close to the program, wanted to play and would be invited to camp with an opportunity to make the team.
During their exit interviews with the Pacers they both said as much but also hemmed and hawwed about this being a big offseason and they may need to focus on that. It looks like that is what happened in the end - they likely turned down the camp invite.

Reality is it is very rare to get these young guys playing before they have their second contract, they are too focused on offeason improvement, health and eyeing that big generational wealth 2nd contract. SGA, Murray, Brooks etc never really played until that 2nd contract was landed. This is not always the case, but it is usually what happens.

Most following the team closely here never really expected Nembhard, Mathurin or Sharpe to play....but there was some wishful thinking about Nembhard and Mathurin because they are so publically supportive of Canada Basketball. Sharpe is more a quiter mystery man. Mathurin is not even needed here - Nembhard stings a little with CoJo and Pangos dropping out. It will sting more if Murray drops.

I think they could (should?) have had a bigger camp with more players, but I suspect they made it clear they were going with the Core 14 guys as priorities. And rightfully so, as they gave their mutual committment. And anyone else was only making the team if enough guys dropped out. I doubt established NBA guys like Boucher, Wiggins or Lyles (or Nembhard/Mathurin for that matter) likely didn't want to play that game and not be sure of their place on the team. Guys like the Scrubbs and TBH are probably cool with whatever happens thus the guys filling the holes are Winter Core guys.

Respect the NBA ego and everything that pulls these guys away from playing FIBA (health, contracts, family, NBA clubs, agents) and enjoy what we are seeing here.

This is still by far the best team Canada has ever floored.... any Canada team with SGA & Olynyk with NBA starter level guys around them is going to an excellent team. If Murray ends up playing this is a medal contender, but probably without him as well.

People need to chill out a little and just let it unfold.




Why do I feel this conversation is had every 2nd or 3rd page? At least it is not "wHeRe Is WiGgInS, HURRR!?!?"


Image


I respect that you follow it much more closely than I do. And I know all about the Wiggins part. I just wish it could be different and the younger Pacers guys and Sharpe were included. I'd love to see an all NBA roster even though I respect the fiba club guys. But I know it's not reality and other factors get in the way
There goes my hero. Watch him as he goes.
User avatar
ItsDanger
RealGM
Posts: 29,285
And1: 26,473
Joined: Nov 01, 2008

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1789 » by ItsDanger » Tue Aug 8, 2023 4:39 pm

The 3 year commitment was made May 2022. At that time, Nembhard was coming off a 4 year college career (last 2 at a top program), not your typical NBA rookie these days. His solid rookie season wasn't a big surprise. Should have been a no brainer putting him on this roster (unless he didn't want to commit), he's been on national youth teams and even played at last Worlds in Beijing and held his own. The insurance he'd provide with players historically "missing" these tournaments for various reasons would be huge. PG play matters a LOT.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.
mojo13
Veteran
Posts: 2,610
And1: 1,912
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1790 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 8, 2023 5:27 pm

ItsDanger wrote:The 3 year commitment was made May 2022. At that time, Nembhard was coming off a 4 year college career (last 2 at a top program), not your typical NBA rookie these days. His solid rookie season wasn't a big surprise. Should have been a no brainer putting him on this roster (unless he didn't want to commit), he's been on national youth teams and even played at last Worlds in Beijing and held his own. The insurance he'd provide with players historically "missing" these tournaments for various reasons would be huge. PG play matters a LOT.


Based on everything we have seen the last 15 years, I think people should consider particpation of NBA players on their rookie contract the extreme exception and not the norm. Don't waste yourself with angst worrying about these guys playing until they have that big second contract secured. Maybe we see the low level guys pop in here and there, but the high profile guys have too much pressure on them to not play.

People should be talking more about why no Boucher or Lyles (we know why on Wiggns) than Nembhard, Sharpe, Mathurin etc.
Or why CoJo really bailed? I know he got married and is changing teams, but he seemed like such a die hard.
User avatar
ItsDanger
RealGM
Posts: 29,285
And1: 26,473
Joined: Nov 01, 2008

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1791 » by ItsDanger » Tue Aug 8, 2023 5:32 pm

mojo13 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:The 3 year commitment was made May 2022. At that time, Nembhard was coming off a 4 year college career (last 2 at a top program), not your typical NBA rookie these days. His solid rookie season wasn't a big surprise. Should have been a no brainer putting him on this roster (unless he didn't want to commit), he's been on national youth teams and even played at last Worlds in Beijing and held his own. The insurance he'd provide with players historically "missing" these tournaments for various reasons would be huge. PG play matters a LOT.


Based on everything we have seen the last 15 years, I think people should consider particpation of NBA players on their rookie contract the extreme exception and not the norm. Don't waste yourself with angst worrying about these guys playing until they have that big second contract secured. Maybe we see the low level guys pop in here and there, but the high profile guys have too much pressure on them to not play.

People should be talking more about why no Boucher or Lyles (we know why on Wiggns) than Nembhard, Sharpe, Mathurin etc.
Or why CoJo really bailed? I know he got married and is changing teams, but he seemed like such a die hard.

While I don't deny the contract explanation, it can't be viewed as a valid reason multiple times. Adam Fantili the recent #3 NHL selection played in the Worlds this past spring before even being drafted, let alone signing a contract. So did Owen Power. It doesn't fly in hockey and shouldn't be used as a legit excuse in basketball either.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.
mojo13
Veteran
Posts: 2,610
And1: 1,912
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1792 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 8, 2023 7:50 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
mojo13 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:The 3 year commitment was made May 2022. At that time, Nembhard was coming off a 4 year college career (last 2 at a top program), not your typical NBA rookie these days. His solid rookie season wasn't a big surprise. Should have been a no brainer putting him on this roster (unless he didn't want to commit), he's been on national youth teams and even played at last Worlds in Beijing and held his own. The insurance he'd provide with players historically "missing" these tournaments for various reasons would be huge. PG play matters a LOT.


Based on everything we have seen the last 15 years, I think people should consider particpation of NBA players on their rookie contract the extreme exception and not the norm. Don't waste yourself with angst worrying about these guys playing until they have that big second contract secured. Maybe we see the low level guys pop in here and there, but the high profile guys have too much pressure on them to not play.

People should be talking more about why no Boucher or Lyles (we know why on Wiggns) than Nembhard, Sharpe, Mathurin etc.
Or why CoJo really bailed? I know he got married and is changing teams, but he seemed like such a die hard.

While I don't deny the contract explanation, it can't be viewed as a valid reason multiple times. Adam Fantili the recent #3 NHL selection played in the Worlds this past spring before even being drafted, let alone signing a contract. So did Owen Power. It doesn't fly in hockey and shouldn't be used as a legit excuse in basketball either.


Apples and Orange. Different sports, different pressure points, magnitudes of different money. We've heard stories that the insurance on these guys when they are young and on their first contract can be untenable. The FIBA provided insurance only covers the contract they are on (more for the clubs protection). Think about the cost of insurance if somebody is eyeing a $200M contract a year or two out. Who pays for that? Basketball Canada? The player?
links135
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,532
And1: 1,506
Joined: Apr 13, 2009

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1793 » by links135 » Tue Aug 8, 2023 9:38 pm

Would have been nice to have included the younger players as they came up, if only as insurance to take into account, well, injuries.

Sure Joesph would get in over them, but if he gets Injured and can't play, we'll would be nice to have a talented body for the few minutes they would play.

The other thing about International competition is it can also give contracts. Take Schroeder, don't think he even had a team when he played at Eurobasket last year, but his performance helped him now have a 2 year deal with us.

Even Hermangomez's performance gave him a contract with us, even though we cut him.
TheFutureMM
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,293
And1: 1,049
Joined: Apr 13, 2015
 

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1794 » by TheFutureMM » Wed Aug 9, 2023 12:50 pm

Game. Day.

Probably wont be able to watch due to work BUT can't wait to see how this team performs against a tough German team.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,995
And1: 52,636
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1795 » by WuTang_CMB » Wed Aug 9, 2023 1:36 pm

Canada vs Shroader
User avatar
DoctaJ
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,744
And1: 474
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
     

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1796 » by DoctaJ » Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:39 pm

Read on the general board that Porzingis may have a foot injury that keeps him out of the BWC. Unfortunate for Latvia if that's the case but could be a lucky break for Canada.
mojo13
Veteran
Posts: 2,610
And1: 1,912
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
   

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1797 » by mojo13 » Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:52 pm

DoctaJ wrote:Read on the general board that Porzingis may have a foot injury that keeps him out of the BWC. Unfortunate for Latvia if that's the case but could be a lucky break for Canada.


and a day later Latvia's federation aggressively denies this.

They have their own Jamal Murray drama.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/1538180/latvia-basketball-association-rejects-reports-on-kristaps-porzingis-fiba-world-cup/
CanballGuru
Freshman
Posts: 79
And1: 88
Joined: Aug 10, 2023

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1798 » by CanballGuru » Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:54 pm

What is the consensus on starting lineups? I initially had Barrett in there but I don't think his skill set is there to start so I moved Brooks in. RJ would be better off the bench against weaker defenses. It would be awesome if we could team up Brooks and Dort but that would obviously mean Murray or SGA have to be benched or we go small ball and send Powell to the bench.

PG Murray
SG SGA
SF Brooks
PF Olynk
C Powell
User avatar
Mattd97
Head Coach
Posts: 6,324
And1: 2,505
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Location: Toronto

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1799 » by Mattd97 » Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:15 pm

GoRaptors wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Why aren't any of Mathurin, Nembhard and/or Sharpe on the roster? All have played for Canada U21 or U18.



After the last attempted run to the Olympics, The Canadian Basketalll group felt continuity was an issue and demanded a 3 year commitment from the NBA players. If the players committed then they would be given first priority if/when Canada makes the Olympics for the Olympic roster.. Nick Nurse received the 3 three year commitment from about 12 NBA players. Mathurin, Nembard and Sharpe were not in the NBA at that time and were not offered the opportunity.
Those 3 were not included in the preliminary lineup. However, I read there were invited as spectators to attend the initial practices that started about 1 week ago.



Nurse asking for a 3 year commitment then bailing months before the Worlds is great
vergogna wrote:- game starts at 3.50
- nice passing at 4.15
- BARGS REBOUND at 4.47
- BARGS REBOUND (almost) at 6.23
User avatar
ItsDanger
RealGM
Posts: 29,285
And1: 26,473
Joined: Nov 01, 2008

Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#1800 » by ItsDanger » Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:22 pm

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/article/clock-ticking-for-murray-as-canada-begins-tune-up-games-ahead-of-fiba-world-cup/

"With the benefit of hindsight would Canada Basketball have been wiser to open up the competition for roster spots a little more broadly?"

Agree with Grange here, I think Rowan Barrett may have been too inflexible on the roster especially with 10-20% of original 15-18 guys typically being committed 1 day, gone the next. I would adjust this approach in the future.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.

Return to Toronto Raptors