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Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1781 » by Jerry Lucas » Tue May 11, 2021 8:29 pm

RapsFanInOhio wrote:Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

I’m so hung up on getting a top four pick for that reason. Between 5-10, I just don’t see a natural fit in that range who can shot create. Barnes will never be a good enough shooter. Kuminga and Keon Johnson either. Really, in that range, I’m not sure if there’s anyone who fits that mold.

Top 4, I’m going Cunningham, Green, Mobley, and Suggs in that order. After that, I’m maybe reaching for Moody or even Giddey if I’m picking 7 or later. Both of those guys just seem to have the creation abilities that others in that range don’t have and can play the SG hole in the lineup.

Tre Mann is one of the best shot creators in the draft, you are indirectly describing him in the bolded areas.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1782 » by brownbobcat » Tue May 11, 2021 8:31 pm

RapsFanInOhio wrote:Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

To be fair, Kawhi wasn't exactly known for that coming out of college. Took him some time to learn how to utilize his physical gifts (and improve his handle) before he became a great ISO player.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1783 » by RapsFanInOhio » Tue May 11, 2021 8:43 pm

Jerry Lucas wrote:
RapsFanInOhio wrote:Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

I’m so hung up on getting a top four pick for that reason. Between 5-10, I just don’t see a natural fit in that range who can shot create. Barnes will never be a good enough shooter. Kuminga and Keon Johnson either. Really, in that range, I’m not sure if there’s anyone who fits that mold.

Top 4, I’m going Cunningham, Green, Mobley, and Suggs in that order. After that, I’m maybe reaching for Moody or even Giddey if I’m picking 7 or later. Both of those guys just seem to have the creation abilities that others in that range don’t have and can play the SG hole in the lineup.

Tre Mann is one of the best shot creators in the draft, you are indirectly describing him in the bolded areas.

I don’t think he goes top 10, but I like him. I worry he isn’t 6’5”.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1784 » by Yeezus_ » Tue May 11, 2021 8:44 pm

Kawhi had a broken jumper coming out of college, he wasn't much of a shot creator.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1785 » by Jerry Lucas » Tue May 11, 2021 8:45 pm

RapsFanInOhio wrote:
Jerry Lucas wrote:
RapsFanInOhio wrote:Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

I’m so hung up on getting a top four pick for that reason. Between 5-10, I just don’t see a natural fit in that range who can shot create. Barnes will never be a good enough shooter. Kuminga and Keon Johnson either. Really, in that range, I’m not sure if there’s anyone who fits that mold.

Top 4, I’m going Cunningham, Green, Mobley, and Suggs in that order. After that, I’m maybe reaching for Moody or even Giddey if I’m picking 7 or later. Both of those guys just seem to have the creation abilities that others in that range don’t have and can play the SG hole in the lineup.

Tre Mann is one of the best shot creators in the draft, you are indirectly describing him in the bolded areas.

I don’t think he goes top 10, but I like him. I worry he isn’t 6’5”.

It wouldn't even be one of the biggest reaches in recent memory if he did go top 10. In terms of his height I guess we'll see at the combine, apparently he gained 2 inches in height this year so it's entirely possibly he could come in taller than 6'5 if he continues to grow.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1786 » by RapsFanInOhio » Tue May 11, 2021 8:52 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
RapsFanInOhio wrote:Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

To be fair, Kawhi wasn't exactly known for that coming out of college. Took him some time to learn how to utilize his physical gifts (and improve his handle) before he became a great ISO player.

Right - it also helped that he had a perfect SF body and the right mentality to get better / become that #1 guy. I don’t see that in this draft but there are different ways to get that shot creation. If we could find a Beal, for example, I’d take that.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1787 » by RapsFanInOhio » Tue May 11, 2021 8:54 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:Kawhi had a broken jumper coming out of college, he wasn't much of a shot creator.

Right, but it was the mentality / work ethic and the physique that turned him into a HOF player. I don’t see anyone in the draft that has that kind of combination, but give me a bigger wing who can hit shots and I’ll work with that.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1788 » by brownbobcat » Tue May 11, 2021 9:02 pm

RapsFanInOhio wrote:Right - it also helped that he had a perfect SF body and the right mentality to get better / become that #1 guy. I don’t see that in this draft but there are different ways to get that shot creation. If we could find a Beal, for example, I’d take that.

That's what makes it a crapshoot.
Sometimes you get an athlete who learns to play the game and sometimes you get Stanley Johnson
Sometimes you get a skilled player who adapts against bigger/faster competition and sometimes you get Jimmer
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1789 » by mtcan » Tue May 11, 2021 9:26 pm

UnbelievablyRAW wrote:Actually, dream scenario is to get top 3 and draft Mobley then trade Trent and Boucher (plus a future frp maybe) for Wisemen and the Minnesota pick. If it’s 5-7 we draft Keon and come out of the draft with Mobley and Keon.

The defensive potential of FVV/Keon/OG/Siakam/Mobley would be insane

I'm not sold on the defensive potential of Mobley. He's 7 feet tall...210 lbs. ESPN lists Chris Boucher at 6'9 200 lbs. Mobley's a stick. Guys like Embiid, Jokic and JV are going to feast on the kid.

I'm not saying he's not good...but he's going to be criticized just like Boucher...except the difference is that Mobley's expectations will be much greater since he'll be a lottery pick.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1790 » by anotherhomer » Tue May 11, 2021 9:54 pm

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2942686-biggest-red-flags-for-projected-2021-nba-draft-lottery-picks

That's a good point, i am concern about Mobley's physicallity
It seems like there's only one sure fire prospect in Cade, but aside from that, there's a lot of red flags

It'll be up to the FO, to either go with a safe pick or upside.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1791 » by mtcan » Tue May 11, 2021 9:56 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
mtcan wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Do you think he has a real shot at being a wing? Having seen only highlights, something about him just screams rim-running big to me whereas OG has always done a great job defending guards, even in college.

Kuminga? A rim running big? No way. He's a 3 primarily with size to play the 4 some times.

Thanks, wasn't really sold on his handle and shot-making based on what I've seen.

I think the draft experts are projecting Kuminga to be like a Jaylen Brown type. Handles and shot-making can be worked on. What Kuminga's been able to do up until now is still very impressive considering he playing against some pros and guys older/stronger than him...and he's still hasn't turned 19 years old yet and most of the other freshman are 19 turning 20.

And not to forget...this is Jaylen Brown's 5th season in the league and he really only putting up big numbers in year 4. Kuminga looks like a bigger and more athletic version of Brown.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1792 » by Indeed » Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
raptor jesus wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.


I think you're really underrating Mitchell's offence if you think he's a Pat Bev type. Mitchell is far more explosive and creative in PnR; he can also exploit mismatches 1 on 1. The big question mark is indeed whether his shooting this past season was an outlier, and whether it'll stand up to the longer line - I'm skeptical myself due to his poor FT shooting. I would also disagree about the size thing defensively. One can make up for size in a number of ways - strength, foot speed, hands, IQ. We see this with guys like Smart, Dort, CP3.
I don't know how Mitchell will score consistently in the NBA. He didn't to the line much in college and his outside shooting is still a question mark. And it's only going to be tougher in the NBA at his size.


You might want to go back and read along the thread.
Davion can guard bigger than his size, similar to VanVleet and Lowry (or Beal), as they are big and strong enough with quick hands. Although unlikely to guard SF, Davion should able to guard both guard positions. He was guarding Cude effectively from the previous video, getting ahead to the place where Cude would go.

On the offense, it is his biggest question. It is really up to his shooting. If his shooting is real, particularly his pull up 3, he would be elite. His quickness seems to be at Kamba Walker level, and he has some advanced move in hesitation, so he should draw double teams. More improvement is needed on his handle, but coming off the bench on his first year should not be an issue.

His next question is his ability to playmake, as he is not projected to be a finisher (play below the rim). Some suggested that his turnovers are due to their bigs not able to handle those passes, and won't be the case in the NBA. However, I don't think he has the vision like Lowry (or Ball). He should able to execute plays, similar to VanVleet. If his playmaking is great, he will probably go top 5, now he maybe around 8th - 15th.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1793 » by Dalek » Tue May 11, 2021 9:59 pm

I know this group is focused on the lottery to find the next Kawhi, but I recently found a new second round prospect which I hadn't come across before and he is one to watch climb onto the draft boards.

Santi Aldama is 6'11 and is a decently mobile center who can stretch the floor, rebound, and make some nice plays with the ball. He is going to be a great pro. Legit C with good mobility and touch. Can also shoot it from deep.

Spoiler:
;ab_channel=ProInsight


He was hidden on Loyola Marymount in the Patriot League, but he dominated there with 20 and 10 and about 2 assists and 2 blocks per game. Why I say he is hidden is because in Spain he is fairly well known. In an under 18 tournament he co-won MVP with Usman Garuba.

FIBA highlights:

Spoiler:
;ab_channel=FIBA-TheBasketballChannel
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1794 » by Indeed » Tue May 11, 2021 10:03 pm

Dalek wrote:I know this group is focused on the lottery to find the next Kawhi, but I recently found a new second round prospect which I hadn't come across before and he is one to watch climb onto the draft boards.

Santi Aldama is 6'11 and is a decently mobile center who can stretch the floor, rebound, and make some nice plays with the ball. He is going to be a great pro. Legit C with good mobility and touch. Can also shoot it from deep.

Spoiler:
;ab_channel=ProInsight


He was hidden on Loyola Marymount in the Patriot League, but he dominated there with 20 and 10 and about 2 assists and 2 blocks per game. Why I say he is hidden is because in Spain he is fairly well known. In an under 18 tournament he co-won MVP with Usman Garuba.

FIBA highlights:

Spoiler:
;ab_channel=FIBA-TheBasketballChannel


He is slow, Lopez speed from the highlight. 6'10 wingspan is not going to be enough at C.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1795 » by Syd-TK3 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:15 pm

Who looked better pre draft
Edwards or Green?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1796 » by mtcan » Tue May 11, 2021 10:20 pm

Syd-TK3 wrote:Who looked better pre draft
Edwards or Green?

I think Green is a better shooter and more fluid of the two. I'd give Edwards the nod as the more freakish athletically although both of them can absolutely jump out of the gym.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1797 » by Ado05 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:27 pm

Whats the consensus on Giddey?

Ive been seeing him get mentioned more and more.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1798 » by Jerry Lucas » Tue May 11, 2021 10:28 pm

Syd-TK3 wrote:Who looked better pre draft
Edwards or Green?

Green easily.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1799 » by vulture » Tue May 11, 2021 10:36 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:Whats the consensus on Giddey?

Ive been seeing him get mentioned more and more.

18 year 6'8 Shot creator with good vision and solid floor game.
He doesn't defend well and doesn't shoot it well. I would take him if we don't get into the top 4.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1800 » by mtcan » Tue May 11, 2021 10:40 pm

vulture wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:Whats the consensus on Giddey?

Ive been seeing him get mentioned more and more.

18 year 6'8 Shot creator with good vision and solid floor game.
He doesn't defend well and doesn't shoot it well. I would take him if we don't get into the top 4.


There are some serious similarities to Joe Ingles.

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