2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- HumbleRen
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,470
- And1: 25,492
- Joined: Jul 02, 2021
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- God Squad
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,338
- And1: 11,564
- Joined: Feb 22, 2010
- Location: Toronto
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
HumbleRen wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
The teams in the 5-17 range that report workouts have not mentioned Bufkin at all.
That's so bizarre. Why do you think that is? Bufkin has risen all year and when you go back to the tape and consider his age you keep liking what you see more and more and more. It's a depressing thought to have this guy who we identified at the end of the college season where he was widely regarded as a late 1st round pick as a serious candidate for us and now he's a mid lottery pick?
He’s got a promise from a team that he really wants to go to.
That’s the only reason why he would not do any workouts for teams.
Seems obvious, no? People are mocking Coulibaly and LMiller to OKC, but maybe it's all smoke.
[img]?s=20[/img]

Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- ItsDanger
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,479
- And1: 25,670
- Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
Lot of these draft guys are just promoters at this point. Half of these prospects don't pan out in top range. So when they like every player's potential, it dilutes whatever good opinion they may have on all these prospects. They should take a stand and stop following the crowd in their analysis.
Organization can be defined as an organized body of people with a particular purpose. Not random.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- HumbleRen
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,470
- And1: 25,492
- Joined: Jul 02, 2021
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
God Squad wrote:HumbleRen wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:
That's so bizarre. Why do you think that is? Bufkin has risen all year and when you go back to the tape and consider his age you keep liking what you see more and more and more. It's a depressing thought to have this guy who we identified at the end of the college season where he was widely regarded as a late 1st round pick as a serious candidate for us and now he's a mid lottery pick?
He’s got a promise from a team that he really wants to go to.
That’s the only reason why he would not do any workouts for teams.
Seems obvious, no? People are mocking Coulibaly and LMiller to OKC, but maybe it's all smoke.
[img]?s=20[/img]
A week before draft day is peak smoke. We won't truly know until the day of.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- InfraRedshaw
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 852
- And1: 818
- Joined: Nov 23, 2012
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
it's wildfire szn and the smoke is THICC
Just 8* years ago Andrea Bargnani was my franchise player, you MF'ers can't rain on my parade
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- Psubs
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,789
- And1: 11,887
- Joined: Nov 20, 2004
- Location: Toronto
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- Psubs
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,789
- And1: 11,887
- Joined: Nov 20, 2004
- Location: Toronto
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:If Raps move up really high in this draft and are planning on dumping OG I would hope they target Cam Whitmore.
Extremely small sample but 94th percentile scoring efficiency as a cutter, 88th percentile in isolation and 88th as a spot up shooter as an 18 year old playing tough college competition.
Isn't he Miles Bridges 2.0? Do we need Miles Bridges 2.0? I don't think so.

Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- OakleyDokely
- RealGM
- Posts: 35,998
- And1: 68,322
- Joined: Aug 02, 2008
- Location: 416
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
Most drafts produce 2-3 consistent allstar level players, a handful of guys that maybe make 1 allstar game (or get close to making one) and about 15-20 solid starters or rotation players. The rest are end of the bench guys or are out of the league soon after their first contract.
I wish the draft guys would actually project who they think won't make it, especially among the guys discussed in the first half of the draft. If you make every prospect out to be a quality NBA player, it's hard to be wrong anything because some of them will be good.
I wish the draft guys would actually project who they think won't make it, especially among the guys discussed in the first half of the draft. If you make every prospect out to be a quality NBA player, it's hard to be wrong anything because some of them will be good.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- HumbleRen
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,470
- And1: 25,492
- Joined: Jul 02, 2021
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
I wonder if Raps just trade 13 for Jazz's 16 & 28.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,514
- And1: 4,662
- Joined: Jan 25, 2023
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
alpngso wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:If Raps move up really high in this draft and are planning on dumping OG I would hope they target Cam Whitmore.
Extremely small sample but 94th percentile scoring efficiency as a cutter, 88th percentile in isolation and 88th as a spot up shooter as an 18 year old playing tough college competition.
I loved Whitmore before going into season, thought he was going to be top 3. Combination of power and athleticism is really intriguing. But the dude does not pass at all. If he goes to Houston, that team will self-destruct with KPJ, Green and him on the court. Jabari's career will just die.
On the Raptors, it might be interesting.
If you're in the 88th percentile in iso PPP why would you pass

Give him to Darko and let him mold him
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,757
- And1: 6,537
- Joined: Jun 13, 2001
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
kevin pelton stats based projections\
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37847803/nba-draft-2023-breaking-30-best-prospects
1. Victor Wembanyama : 3.9 WARP
2. Brandon Miller : 3.5 WARP
3. Cam Whitmore : 3.2 WARP
4. Taylor Hendricks 2.7 WARP
5. Gradey Dick 2.6 WARP
6. Cason Wallace 2.6 WARP
7. Dereck Lively II 2.4 WARP
8. Jarace Walker 2.3 WARP
9. Brandin Podziemski 2.3 WARP
10. Brice Sensabaugh 2.2 WARP
11. Dariq Whitehead 2.1 WARP
12. Keyonte George 2.1 WARP
13. Scoot Henderson 2.1 WARP
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37847803/nba-draft-2023-breaking-30-best-prospects
1. Victor Wembanyama : 3.9 WARP
2. Brandon Miller : 3.5 WARP
3. Cam Whitmore : 3.2 WARP
4. Taylor Hendricks 2.7 WARP
5. Gradey Dick 2.6 WARP
6. Cason Wallace 2.6 WARP
7. Dereck Lively II 2.4 WARP
8. Jarace Walker 2.3 WARP
9. Brandin Podziemski 2.3 WARP
10. Brice Sensabaugh 2.2 WARP
11. Dariq Whitehead 2.1 WARP
12. Keyonte George 2.1 WARP
13. Scoot Henderson 2.1 WARP
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,514
- And1: 4,662
- Joined: Jan 25, 2023
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
If Podziemski were like 15% more athletic than he is (who is to say with NBA training he can't improve as an athlete) what is holding him back from being the #1 guard in the entire class? He is there in the conversation at 13 for me.
look at this filthy pass
the kid is unreal and still being undervalued. SIX YEARS playing competitive basketball.
look at this filthy pass
the kid is unreal and still being undervalued. SIX YEARS playing competitive basketball.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
-
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 39,149
- And1: 29,953
- Joined: Jul 26, 2008
- Location: You don't know my location but I know yours
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- Psubs
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,789
- And1: 11,887
- Joined: Nov 20, 2004
- Location: Toronto
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:If Podziemski were like 15% more athletic than he is (who is to say with NBA training he can't improve as an athlete) what is holding him back from being the #1 guard in the entire class? He is there in the conversation at 13 for me.
look at this filthy pass
the kid is unreal and still being undervalued. SIX YEARS playing competitive basketball.
Cissoko makes the same passes, in an OG frame.

Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- niQ
- Forum Mod - Raptors
- Posts: 16,005
- And1: 29,856
- Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
Would you guys consider any of Bufkin, Wallace, or George to be Raptors-y players? Probably not right? Unless you consider Cason's 6'8.5 wingspan big for a PG his size.
Really want one of those 3. Can only hope it was a smokescreen from Webster...
Really want one of those 3. Can only hope it was a smokescreen from Webster...
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- HumbleRen
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,470
- And1: 25,492
- Joined: Jul 02, 2021
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
Psubs wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:If Podziemski were like 15% more athletic than he is (who is to say with NBA training he can't improve as an athlete) what is holding him back from being the #1 guard in the entire class? He is there in the conversation at 13 for me.
look at this filthy pass
the kid is unreal and still being undervalued. SIX YEARS playing competitive basketball.
Cissoko makes the same passes, in an OG frame.
I prefer Cissoko too but the difference is, Pod can actually shoot which opens up even more passing lanes lol.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- Psubs
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,789
- And1: 11,887
- Joined: Nov 20, 2004
- Location: Toronto
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
niQ wrote:Would you guys consider any of Bufkin, Wallace, or George to be Raptors-y players? Probably not right? Unless you consider Cason's 6'8.5 wingspan big for a PG his size.
Really want one of those 3. Can only hope it was a smokescreen from Webster...
After drafting Flynn, what's a Raptors-y pick? Analytics with IBM Watson?
The eye test had me seeing Desmond Bane being jacked but not negatively affecting his shooting and he shot from NBA range. His arms might've meant less stocks but he was able to be a secondary playmaker in the NBA running the offense at TCU. I would argue that Memphis is better with Bane and not Ja, than with Ja and not Bane.

Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,877
- And1: 10,677
- Joined: Jan 24, 2005
- Location: At the elbow - dropping dimes
-
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
douggood wrote:kevin pelton stats based projections\
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37847803/nba-draft-2023-breaking-30-best-prospects
1. Victor Wembanyama : 3.9 WARP
2. Brandon Miller : 3.5 WARP
3. Cam Whitmore : 3.2 WARP
4. Taylor Hendricks 2.7 WARP
5. Gradey Dick 2.6 WARP
6. Cason Wallace 2.6 WARP
7. Dereck Lively II 2.4 WARP
8. Jarace Walker 2.3 WARP
9. Brandin Podziemski 2.3 WARP
10. Brice Sensabaugh 2.2 WARP
11. Dariq Whitehead 2.1 WARP
12. Keyonte George 2.1 WARP
13. Scoot Henderson 2.1 WARP
These are fun projections, but without knowing which team they are going to and their role, it is hard think these have value. He doesn't even look at Overtime Elite so no idea on the Thompson Twins.
I don't think Scoot's WARP will dissuade anyone from taking him no. 2. You work him out, check his leadership and star potential, and you just do the draft. Analytics have nothing to do with that pick.
Anthony Black is 14th valued in this model. He is the guy I think teams will struggle with. Do I take Anthony Black knowing he does a lot of things well but is a weak scorer, or do I take Kobe Bufkin who is much more dynamic? Bufkin is 23rd on this model which seems bizarre since most of the time he pops in advanced analytics.
Derek Lively at top ten value is another guy I debate his worth. Great shotblocker but is he better than Walker Kessler? He doesn't offer a lot more potential being so limited offensively, but Dallas could use a big and Luka could unlock really good value out of him.
Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 6
- TronoWrappers
- Sophomore
- Posts: 108
- And1: 211
- Joined: Jan 27, 2018
-