Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[Ripp]

^-- Excellent post.

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar. I mean every team tries to build around its best player. And lol at BC rebuilding. Hes on the last year of his contract and hes the master of the quck fix. This team wont be bad (and they wont be bad enough to get a high lottery pick) for more than 2 years.

Haha, maybe I misread his post entirely. I thought his point was, "Don't make short-term moves involving trading young for old or overpaying FAs to placate your star." If that is his point, I agree. If his point is "actively avoid building around star", then obviously, I do not.

Of course, this is a bit subjective, I guess.

[swift_ioi]

I wonder if a 3 team deal is possible where we send Hedo to Houston with Bosh and Jose along with Ariza back to LA. We'd get back Battier, picks and any other expirings to make it work.

imo this would be best case scenario if the raps were to move bosh,cut some of the fat in jose and turk and we don't seem to be in as a depressing situation..but we would still suck but with at least some hope

[Courtside]

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar.

No - what dagger is saying is that you don't make quick fixes to placate your quasi-superstar because you're worried he might leave.

You DO build around a legit superstar properly (notice he never said Bosh was a superstar) and it requires both patience and some luck, as well as the superstar to not have an ego larger than his contribution.

Haha, maybe I misread his post entirely. I thought his point was, "Don't make short-term moves involving trading young for old or overpaying FAs to placate your star." If that is his point, I agree. If his point is "actively avoid building around star", then obviously, I do not.

That's how I read it also, but sometimes people see what they want to see when they have it out for certain posters.

[Joshuan3]

I want AARON BROOKS , SCOLA HELL NO, battier washed up
jordan hill sucks
uhmm the draft picks maybe useful but I' want something good and LONG TERM

[And1Skip]

the houston trade is an opportunity for a quick rebuild.

DeRozan, jordan hill, weems, amir 13th and 14th pick assume we suck in 2011, a top of the lotto pick.

and whatever BC can parlay calderon, ariza into, either shorter contracts or other assets.

And that 13th or 14th pick may be able to net us Corey Joseph or Tristan Thompson (toronto boys) who are projected to be drafted in that area (of course, depending on how they perform in their first season together at Texas. They have the potential though)

[darth_federer]

^-- Excellent post.

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar. I mean every team tries to build around its best player. And lol at BC rebuilding. Hes on the last year of his contract and hes the master of the quck fix. This team wont be bad (and they wont be bad enough to get a high lottery pick) for more than 2 years.

No, i'm saying it's hard a lot of teams fail at it. And Bosh isn't the kind of superstar who can carry a bunch of Titos, or can get a guy like Shaq to say, trade me to Miami because Wade and South Beach are attractive to me. And you guys can't seem to be consistent in your criticism. If this team without Bosh is that bad, how don't we get a high lottery pick next season?

Either players like Bargnani are complete scrubs or they do have value. If the former, like you claim, is true, we're going to have a top 5 pick in 2011.

Well its debatable how much Shaq wanted to play with Wade. Im sure Pat Riley had a HUGE impact on his decision. Shaq was still a great player at the time. And yes I think Bosh is a player people want to play with.

I dont buy into this first option theory because we have seen first options on playoff teams and contenders that are worse or just as good as Bosh. (Amare in Phoenix, Stephen Jackson in Charlotte, Dwight Howard in Orlando and Billups/Hamilton in Detroit). If you surround him with the right players, he can be a first option in this league. Can he do it on his own? No, but if you surround him with the right mix of players, he can be a legit first option in this leauge.

Are we overpaying him if we give him the max? Perhaps, but hes the third most efficient players in the league, is a good guy and is not a guy who does stupid things. He seems mature and does his work in the community. Losing him would be a BIG setback for this franchise. You only have to look at the suitors for Bosh to see how valuable he is around the league.

Look a team led by Bargnani, Turkoglu, Jack and Calderon will win about 30-35 games next year. They arent bad enough to give this team a high lottery pick. And yes watching this team would suck because there would be no defense, little heart and a lot of blowouts.

Im not some Bosh fanboy. I care about the team. Losing him would be pretty bad for this franchise, the perception of the city down South and for the next few years in general.

[Homer Jay]

If we get 3 first rounders out of it (two of those belonging to the Knicks). It is not too bad. I don't see why we couldn't punt Jefferies and Ariza on to a 3rd party. There was interest in Ariza last year and likely still would be. Jefferies deal we can just let expire, if we keep him, it is unlikely we retain Wright.

I still think realistically that if we have to rebuild, that a core of Bargs, DD, and Amir, with a bench of Weems, Jack, and Hill, and with possibly 6 first round picks in the next three drafts (With 5 of those being lottos) , is a good start. BC will have to work hard to dump Caldy and Hedo thou.

[tosi]

I agree with some others.. if they want Bosh.. They better start talking with brooks and scola first..

[Ripp]

I don't think BC should rule anything out at this point, including the involvement of Turkoglu in a deal.

Houston has made the mistake of going all in and betting everything on Bosh, by the looks of it. If they're faced with the possibility of him going to LA or Miami instead, Morey could well be the one who makes the deal include Turk to ensure they stay at the top of the heap.

These two separate points you've made assume that BC is in the driver's seat. For example, there is absolutely no chance Morey or Bosh will accept Turk being included in a S/T. Neither want him, for obvious reasons.
Regarding the latter point, re-read the article carefully. The emphasis is not on "what package must I offer to satisfy Colangelo against the various other offers", but "which team is Bosh most interested in signing with, the Rockets or Teams X, Y, and Z?"
Honestly, given the relative track records of the two GMs, I think if a deal goes down and you are expecting Turk (or any other bad contracts) to go the other way, you'll be quite unpleasantly surprised.

Chris would have to keep his selection(s) private for this to be possible, but we'll have to wait for the playoffs to end before we know what other teams really do or don't think about Chris. I think CB wants to wait until after July 1 so he can be wined and dined and have sunshine blown up his rear, but Morey knows everything could be arranged well before the FA period starts if other teams are in the mix. By putting this out the way he did, he is making his overtures to Chris indirectly through the media - it was a risky move but he had to tip his hand to Chris well before the date. He realizes Chris wants some attention and decided to give it to him, but CB is still under contract with the Raptors - so Morey is essentially tampering with the deadline rules the way I see it.

There is nothing restricting the author from writing that article. Might he have gotten information from Rockets insiders? Sure. But as with many things in life, there are always loopholes. Certainly Bosh has made it a bit easier, but publicly asking for advice via Twitter. The article seems a natural response.

[lucky777s]

^-- Excellent post.

What Dagger is essentially saying is that you shouldnt build around your superstar. I mean every team tries to build around its best player. And lol at BC rebuilding. Hes on the last year of his contract and hes the master of the quck fix. This team wont be bad (and they wont be bad enough to get a high lottery pick) for more than 2 years.

CHI was always very strong in their dealings with Jordan and Pippen. They never caved in to their demands as far as I know. They traded away one of MJs best friends in Oak. And I'm not sure MJ even wanted PhilJax as coach originally.

Jordan specifically told CHI to stay away from Ron Harper, who later became a key piece to title runs in both CHI and LAL. And I don't think MJ or SP liked Kukoc at all either prior to him playing there.

Rodman was the only big name the Bulls ever put beside MJ.


On the other hand the Lakers catered to Magic and that brought in the showtime era with Pat Riley.

[Courtside]

...I think if a deal goes down and you are expecting Turk (or any other bad contracts) to go the other way, you'll be quite unpleasantly surprised.

Dude, really.

I never said or even implied that BC was in the drivers seat, only that Houston tipped their hand. I also never said that I expected Turk in any deal, either - did I?

I was simply saying that nothing should be ruled out and there are a number of scenarios that are beyond the control of either BC or Morey or Chris at this point, since the playoffs are still going on and we don't know who else will come to the table.

[The Duke]

I'm okay with Bosh for a Houston package with expirings/NY picks/Houston future picks/swaping with NY pick/young players.

If they want us to buy out Battier, and he can return to houston... (to help match salaries), I'm okay with that also.

I think a Hedo addition kills all the future assets coming back... lets remember without Bosh we are not a .500 team this year.... so might as well build for the future. Hedo will become more a focal point in the offense, and hence his trade value will increase. Cap space is not gonna get us anything more then having to overpay for marginal talent ---- see (Turk), when we are a losing team.

Hopefully we can luck out with a good draft pick... when they're contracts are gareenteed, and if they turn out good, we could have them for 7 years.

[andreafan]

good move . now we can finally get on with bargnani as our frashise player and btw no sarcasm there. peace and out.

[Ripp]

If they're faced with the possibility of him going to LA or Miami instead, Morey could well be the one who makes the deal include Turk to ensure they stay at the top of the heap.

Then what is the implication of this? if CB chooses Miami on July 1st, a Houston offer to take on Turk is irrelevant, no?

[Courtside]

If they're faced with the possibility of him going to LA or Miami instead, Morey could well be the one who makes the deal include Turk to ensure they stay at the top of the heap.

Then what is the implication of this? if CB chooses Miami on July 1st, a Houston offer to take on Turk is irrelevant, no?

...and where in that quote do I say that I *expect* that deal to happen... or that it puts BC in the drivers seat?

If you read my earlier post - its says clearly that it's dependent on CB keeping his chosen destination(s) to himself and letting BC work with the other GM to make a good deal. It means that if Bosh gives BC a list of more that one team he is willing to go to and other good offers are being made, that Morey may up his offer since he's made it so public that Chris is not just an option, but a priority.

[Reignman]

So basically it's the picks that we're after because everything else is garbage from a rebuilding perspective.

So if I were BC I'd start off with two scenarios, Picks + Brooks + filler. OR, Picks + filler but they take Hedo.

The question is whether them taking Hedo or giving us Brooks affects the picks being exchanged because those are what we're after.

[Raps in 4]

After reading the last couple pages I'm starting to warm to the deal, lol. However, for everything to work out BC would need to aim for the future, which is highly improbable.

[MrBojangelz71]

I'm okay with Bosh for a Houston package with expirings/NY picks/Houston future picks/swaping with NY pick/young players.

If they want us to buy out Battier, and he can return to houston... (to help match salaries), I'm okay with that also.

I think a Hedo addition kills all the future assets coming back... lets remember without Bosh we are not a .500 team this year.... so might as well build for the future. Hedo will become more a focal point in the offense, and hence his trade value will increase. Cap space is not gonna get us anything more then having to overpay for marginal talent ---- see (Turk), when we are a losing team.

Hopefully we can luck out with a good draft pick... when they're contracts are gareenteed, and if they turn out good, we could have them for 7 years.

I agree but I think packaging Jose in won't hurt our ability as much in obtaining draft picks.

If we can rid Jose's contract, utilize Banks as our backup and increase his value, as well as Hedo's value, we could really maximize our currents assets (I use that term very loosely). Banks as an expiring is much more attractive should he show the capabilities of being a descent backup PG. He could be easily moved prior to the deadline next season.

But realistically, moving either Jose or Hedo at this point would be nothing short of a blessing.

[mowcrowbar]

If Bosh decides to go to Houston, then we can safely say Bosh doesn't care about winning the championship.

[Contract Season]

This seems realistic:

Bosh

for

Jeffries (expiring)
Battier (bought out, will return to Rockets)
$3 million cash (to facilitate the Battier buyout)
Hill
Rights to Rockets' 2010 first round pick (14th overall)
2011 Knicks first
2012 higher of Houston or New York's pick

I'd ask for Lowry too and trade Calderon for Rip Hamilton.

Obviously it's not ideal to lose your best player without a stud coming back, but Hill has some potential and was a No. 8 pick, the Rockets pick could bring a decent player.
The Knicks picks could be good or could be used to trade up later as was mentioned.
Jeffries, Banks and Evans could get you something good from a team looking to dump a star making a lot of money.

Getting Lowry too would allow the Raptors to ship Jose for a swingman (Rip or Maggette).

Hypothetical lineup:
PG Jack/Lowry or Eric Bledsoe
SG Hamilton/DeRozan
SF Turkoglu/Weems/14th pick
PF Johnson/Hill
C Bargnani/Whiteside or Orton or Alabi

Trade fodder: Jeffries, Banks, Evans, Belinelli