Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Harrison Barnes

[Ell Curry]

Thanks ItBobby and Mufasa. I don't have anything against Barnes. In fact, I like the idea of getting a guy later in the draft when people think he should have been a top 5 pick, and the reason he's dropped is that he didn't dominate in 35 (freshman) or 70 (sophomores) games in college. I remember thinking it was weird that DeAndre Jordan dropped so far. If he had top 5 talent, putting up a stinkbomb for 35 or 70 games shouldn't drop you 30 places in the draft. 10-15, sure. But not 30.

So, if Drummond or Barnes drop to 15-20, I'd love to see the Raptors buy a pick or trade DeRozan for one in order to take them. There's a reason why these guys were projected as potential #1 overall picks. Barnes is a 6'8, fluid 3 who DraftExpress described as doing "a little bit of everything in the scrimmage we saw, playing very unselfishly, making shots from the perimeter, attacking the rim, weaving in and out of traffic, crashing the offensive glass, and making some excellent passes. Some of his finishes around the basket were extremely impressive, and he always looked calm and under control, refusing to get caught up in the playground type atmosphere that usually typifies these all-star events." So, there is raw talent there...

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/5/14 ... ing-report
This post hits some similar points to what I was saying. I hadn't seen it before, but a more mature, team-oriented Travis Outlaw seems like a real possibility. That's scary.

[Ell Curry]

The hope with Barnes is that:

1) He's supposedly a good guy with a strong work ethic, so maybe he'll realize he needs to figure out how to score efficiently and get steals and blocks to help his team win. His stats scream Nick Young, but Nick Young is kind of an idiot. Barnes might just need a good coach and some time to figure things out.

2) Barnes did play at UNC, which had a bunch of talent. For example, maybe he's secretly a great rebounder. He played on a team without 2 elite rebounders (Zeller + Henson), so he was never going to pull down 8 or 9 a game. Whereas someone like Harkless, who pulled down 8 a game, played on a team where nobody had more than 5 and he was generally the tallest or 2nd tallest guy on the court for his team. The UNC offense, even with Barnes taking a lot of shots and hitting a very low number of them for a 1st rounder, still finished 16th in the country. That was probably more about Marshall getting his team good looks in transition and Zeller putting up 16 a game on 62% True Shooting, but still, it's not like Barnes ruined their offense.

[Dr Positivity]

Even though I used stats in my last post to back it up (and enjoyed yours), to me it just comes down to the combination of not only having those mediocore stats, both in overall production and specifics like 2P% and Ast/TOV, but also the fact that I'm not seeing the TALENT that supposibly justifies looking past them. What is so special about his talent level? Is it his decent but not exemplary physical tools - He's fluid but doesn't have great footspeed, which is everything in the NBA. Is it is decent but not exemplary skill talent - He has a fine shooting form but is still around 30th for SFs in the NCAA for shooting and of course, is sh*t in the ballhandling/passing parts of skill. Is it his passable at best basketball instincts - the horrible passing indicates weak vision, he doesn't have a great sense of using his body and strength as much as a guy like Sullinger does. This guy's star talent level reminds me of Marvin Williams and OJ Mayo's star talent level. If you're not a standout talent in some area of physical tools, skill or basketball IQ, I would say there's a good chance a duck is a duck and you're not a standout talent. The only standout talent related to Barnes is his PR agent. Mayo and Marvin held onto their reps from high school long enough for people to just assume they had great talent when from a physical tools/skill/IQ perspective they had nothing standing out

To me Barnes is neither in the top 15 in either talent or production, in terms of players being talked about as potential 1st round prospects this year. I would put him near guys like Terrence Ross and Moe Harkless for level of interest. Intriguing but not dynamic physical talents who have just enough skill to have starting potential in the right situation where they're the 4th/5th most talented guy. If I had the #22 pick and he was there I might take him.

[Ell Curry]

The only standout talent related to Barnes is his PR agent. Mayo and Marvin held onto their reps from high school long enough for people to just assume they had great talent

To me Barnes is neither in the top 15 in either talent or production, in terms of players being talked about as potential 1st round prospects this year. I would put him near guys like Terrence Ross and Moe Harkless for level of interest. Intriguing but not dynamic physical talents who have just enough skill to have starting potential in the right situation where they're the 4th/5th most talented guy. If I had the #22 pick and he was there I might take him.

I mostly agree, but would caution some humility and respect for the wisdom of crowds. If I have him as about the 16th best pick in the draft and a ton of people have him at #6, with the average spot for him being about #8 or 9, I think about taking him once it gets to 12 or 13. You have to allow for the possibility that you might be wrong.

Not to the extreme level of ignoring your own instincts, but it makes sense to take into account the fact that some people see a star when they see him, and again, he supposedly, and the Raps can interview him and his coaches to see this better, has a great work ethic, which he will need.

[Undefeated]

Wow. There's way too many excuses for this guy and he's not even drafted yet. I can see it now. Barnes will struggle out of the gate and people will complain because Bargnani and Demar are taking his shots away or Dwane Casey isn't running enough plays for him. I don't want a guy like this. Give me a player who gets the job done without excuses.

It's people like you who don't understand system, nevertheless the lack of basketball knowledge but overall just terrible in terms of your analysis. There's no ball movement in UNC, its all PG and bigs dominant. Instead, Casey's system is all about ball movement/p&r/cuts/screens, and Barnes specialty is shooting thus guys like Demar who always attack and never shoot from distance will only lead to more shot opportunities for Barnes, plus guys like Bargs who doesn't demand the ball in the post will only lead to more space in the lane for Barnes to attack. So really, think before you post, zero.

That's what I find funny. Anyone who watched a lick of UNC basketball this year knows that Barnes does much more than scoring on spot-ups and catch-and-shoot. I'll admit Barnes isn't the most creative or dynamic offensive player off the dribble as he was touted as a senior in high-school, but neither were any other UNC wings who were just as highly recruited coming out of high-school as well like Reggie Bullock and P.J. Hariston. They were much more pedestrian than Barnes, but it fits our narrative to put the burden on Barnes' lack of production. More importantly with Barnes coming from a program that plays heavily in the half-court, he already knows what it takes to play in the half-court by moving off the ball relentlessly which will make his transition to the NBA smoother than other prospects. He's shown he can score off cuts where he can walk down his defender beating his defender with sudden changes of speed and body fakes to beat his man to the basket with a back cut and he knows to clear out to the weak-side when Zeller and/or Henson would post-up their man down low and ready for the catch-and-shoot or a rim run attack, and if the shot goes up he crashes the offensive glass hard. His ability to find his own offense out of the screen-and-roll will help him tremendously too.

[Ell Curry]

Wow. There's way too many excuses for this guy and he's not even drafted yet. I can see it now. Barnes will struggle out of the gate and people will complain because Bargnani and Demar are taking his shots away or Dwane Casey isn't running enough plays for him. I don't want a guy like this. Give me a player who gets the job done without excuses.

It's people like you who don't understand system, nevertheless the lack of basketball knowledge but overall just terrible in terms of your analysis. There's no ball movement in UNC, its all PG and bigs dominant. Instead, Casey's system is all about ball movement/p&r/cuts/screens, and Barnes specialty is shooting thus guys like Demar who always attack and never shoot from distance will only lead to more shot opportunities for Barnes, plus guys like Bargs who doesn't demand the ball in the post will only lead to more space in the lane for Barnes to attack. So really, think before you post, zero.

That's what I find funny. Anyone who watched a lick of UNC basketball this year knows that Barnes does much more than scoring on spot-ups and catch-and-shoot. I'll admit Barnes isn't the most creative or dynamic offensive player off the dribble as he was touted as a senior in high-school, but neither were any other UNC wings who were just as highly recruited coming out of high-school as well like Reggie Bullock and P.J. Hariston. They were much more pedestrian than Barnes, but it fits our narrative to put the burden on Barnes' lack of production. More importantly with Barnes coming from a program that plays heavily in the half-court, he already knows what it takes to play in the half-court by moving off the ball relentlessly which will make his transition to the NBA smoother than other prospects. He's shown he can score off cuts where he can walk down his defender beating his defender with sudden changes of speed and body fakes to beat his man to the basket with a back cut and he knows to clear out to the weak-side when Zeller and/or Henson would post-up their man down low and ready for the catch-and-shoot or a rim run attack, and if the shot goes up he crashes the offensive glass hard. His ability to find his own offense out of the screen-and-roll will help him tremendously too.

How do you explain Barnes missing a much higher percentage of his shots than the other lottery projected wings (Lamb, Beal, MKG, Ross and Waiters)?

If Marshall getting the ball to Zeller and Henson was UNC's first priority on offense, shouldn't Barnes have had a lower usage rate but been a more efficient scorer? His scoring efficiency is going to go up as the man on an offense, rather than as a 3rd option in college?

[Undefeated]

How do you explain Barnes missing a much higher percentage of his shots than the other lottery projected wings (Lamb, Beal, MKG, Ross and Waiters)?

If Marshall getting the ball to Zeller and Henson was UNC's first priority on offense, shouldn't Barnes have had a lower usage rate but been a more efficient scorer? His scoring efficiency is going to go up as the man on an offense, rather than as a 3rd option in college?

A lot of Barnes' shot attempts were at the end of the shot-clock, so he had to rush his shot which is why we saw a lot of two dribble pull-ups from him. Intuitively, when you rush shots, your efficiency tends to go down because you have to fire quicker and your form isn't consistent with the way you would normally shoot. I haven't seen Terrence Ross or Dion Waiters play much only like twice, so I can't really compare them to him. But Beal and Lamb are usually their team's primary scoring options meaning they can pick their spots to get their shot off.

http://www.chapelboro.com/Tar-Heels-Must-Do-Well-At-The-End-Of-Shot-Clocks/12442401

[Rapsfan07]

I think we should just get Lamb or *gulp* PJ3 and throw money at Batum. Because even if we do jump, we're not taking Barnes Top 3 and if we don't jump, I'm certain he'll be gone by #8 and I don't love him that much to move up for him.

So if anything, grab a high ceiling guy like Lamb and work out the kinks later.

[Undefeated]

What is so special about his talent level? Is it his decent but not exemplary physical tools - He's fluid but doesn't have great footspeed, which is everything in the NBA. Is it is decent but not exemplary skill talent - He has a fine shooting form but is still around 30th for SFs in the NCAA for shooting and of course, is sh*t in the ballhandling/passing parts of skill. Is it his passable at best basketball instincts - the horrible passing indicates weak vision, he doesn't have a great sense of using his body and strength as much as a guy like Sullinger does. This guy's star talent level reminds me of Marvin Williams and OJ Mayo's star talent level. If you're not a standout talent in some area of physical tools, skill or basketball IQ, I would say there's a good chance a duck is a duck and you're not a standout talent. The only standout talent related to Barnes is his PR agent. Mayo and Marvin held onto their reps from high school long enough for people to just assume they had great talent when from a physical tools/skill/IQ perspective they had nothing standing out

Barnes' footspeed laterally isn't great which is why he doesn't use many crossovers to beat his man. But his vertical quickness exploding forward or taking a step backward is good. This is where he takes advantage of his vertical footspeed in screen-and-roll actions because he knows as soon as he turns the corner, he already has his man chasing him playing catch up. That's why Barnes utilizes a lot of change of pace dribbles like slowing down, using an in-and-out dribble to force the defender putting weight in one direction then quickly accelerating to the rim as he wiggles and weaves his way through traffic. Basically, his ability to use momentum going forward is very good because it takes a lot of sudden changes in gears/speed to probe your way into the paint after turning the corner.

The thing with Barnes' handles is that, it's not something that will make you say wow like you think he can drop his defender. For the lack of a proper term, let's just say his ball-handling are functional handles that's good enough to get where he wants on the floor without turning the ball over. Inadvertently, the way he handles the ball is linked to how well he uses his body. I've said this plenty of times, but rarely will you see Barnes lose the ball from forced turnovers. Most of his turnovers are from like travelling or shuffling his feet before he puts the ball on the floor as he makes his drive to the basket. If you noticed, Barnes usually has that off-hand usually his left to shield the ball away from defenders as they're trying to reach. Or he has his hips as he dribbles the ball on the side of his body. More importantly, Barnes has gotten out of the habit of dribbling the ball in an upright position as if he's sitting on a chair. Now, he's dribbling with his back lower to the floor with his back almost horizontal which is where he gets that burst of speed exploding forward. But as long as Barnes can show that he can knock down the two dribble pull-up with some sort of rhythm, that will force the defender to key in on him and all he has to do is take two strong, power dribbles forward and he's already at the basket.

And he's shown to be very, very good at contorting his body mid-air avoiding charges which is another example that he uses his body very well.

I'm worried about Barnes lack of passing too, but you have to wonder how much of it is from the lack of shot-clock time to work with. When Barnes was expected to be the bail-out guy for the UNC's offense, it doesn't leave much room to create off the dribble for teammates. I don't know how much more glaringly obvious it can be when Roy Williams had frickin' Stilman White running the show for UNC like he was Kendall Marshall when Marshall was sidelined with that wrist injury in the big dance. The guy is barely div. 1 material, and Roy Williams expects him to perform like a projected lotto PG? Get real man. That's when it occur to me Roy Williams unwillingness to adjust his offense. Maybe Barnes might have shown more if Roy Williams had place the ball in his hands more often? Who knows. All I know is nothing is set in stone.

But after reading Ell Curry's post, I'm convinced that Barnes' shooting could or could not translate. 3-PT% don't exactly translate as we saw the huge discrepancy from his list of examples. It's that I'm enamored by his sweet stroke and everlasting range. He already has a picture perfect-esque from extending 25-feet. A lot of times, Barnes doesn't even shoot from the college 3-pt line with his feet on the line when he's parked up top at the key or along the wing. That to me, tells me how he's a good shooter ignoring the shooting percentages and all.

[Ell Curry]

Undefeated,

That end of clock stat is interesting. It seems to indicate Barnes lacks 1 on 1 skills. Unlike a guy like Lawson, who could still score efficiently when the clock was winding down, Barnes just ends up missing his shot.

So, is the hope that he will develop an offensive repertoire (he is, after all only 20, however, why is he more likely to do this than Lamb, Waiters or Beal? They all seem to have good work ethic and be decent human beings.) allowing him to score at a decent clip without a lot of time to work with, and with the 24 second shot clock that's a lot of possessions?

Or is it that he's going to be a role player so his ability to create his own shot quickly is not so important. I can get behind Barnes as a 6'8 role player who hits the 3 and is lengthy enough to play some minutes at the 4, like Kawhi Leonard does. But the Raptors should be convinced his 3 point shot will be consistently above average and that he can be a force defensively.

If I'm the Raptors, I'm trying to figure out whether or not he realizes that he either: A) needs to be modeling his game after good role players who did not waste possessions trying to put up points (current SF's, I'd look at Nic Batum and Leonard) B) has shown no indications that he can score efficiently enough to justify taking more than 11-12 shots a game if he's a starter.

[Ell Curry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEOriwcJ ... re=related

If Barnes stops taking the shots he takes at 1:05 and 2:05 of this clip (long, contested 2's with 20+ seconds left on the shot clock) I could see him working out as a role player, though his lack of steals, rebounds (maybe due to Zeller + Henson getting them) and blocks suggests that is unlikely.

Do people think he could play at the 4 at all? If Jonas is the beast we need him to be, it makes sense to have a shooter at the 4. Barnes is tall enough and he seems fairly strong. The Spurs, Thunder, Sixers, Pacers, basically everyone in the playoffs has used small ball lineups at times. I'd like him a lot better if I felt he could slide over to the 4 for 15-20 minutes a game when there wasn't some awesome post up 4 to cover.

[40 Guzzle]

There is no part of Barnes that translates to the NBA 4 position, none

[Ell Curry]

There is no part of Barnes that translates to the NBA 4 position, none

That's too bad. I think the NBA is moving toward stretch 4's being even more common.

Look at this: http://www.82games.com/1112/ROLRTG8.HTM
Who stands out at the top? Ryan Anderson. With him on the floor, the Magic were +8.2. Without him, -9.2. That's a 17.5 point difference per game. That's why he's ranked as the #6 player, between Durant and Garnett. Obviously, Ryan Anderson, even on fire from 3pt land all year, is not the 6th best player in the league. But having that stretch 4 just opens up so much. But whereas Dwight Howard's +/- is 11.1 points probably explains most of Anderson's value, there's a reason his is so much better than Dwight's. The value of another shooter is massive.

This post about Matt Bonner provides another nice example of the value of the stretch 4: http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/3/3 ... vindicated

Obviously, we need to draft the best player available. But if Jonas V. is "worst case, he's Joakim Noah" I think a shooting 4 makes a lot of sense as a complement to that kind of player.

So, it would be nice if Barnes, who is 6'8 and 225, could play some minutes at the 4.

But the most important thing is how good a player is. I don't think fit really matters at all now, apart from maybe not wanting to duplicate Jonas V.'s skillset. On the other hand, as long as one of them can pass or they can both hit mid-long 2's, they can still mesh well together on offense.

[Undefeated]

That end of clock stat is interesting. It seems to indicate Barnes lacks 1 on 1 skills. Unlike a guy like Lawson, who could still score efficiently when the clock was winding down, Barnes just ends up missing his shot.

I'm not sure if I'd say it's the lack of one-on-one skills because in the clip you posted such as plays 6 and 10, Barnes had no problem creating space against MKG with a step-back or an in-and-out dribble. MKG's close out barely had any effect on Barnes' shot. He misses shot for a simple reason -- he doesn't have a lightning quick release. If you're going to make shots with the shot clock winding down, you need to have an accurate quick release. Barnes is more of a guy who needs to play around with his dribble before stepping into for a shot where he can fully-extend his elbow even though he can make some off-balance jumpers. Just watching Ty Lawson against the Lakers in the playoffs, you can tell he has a very quick release. Even with a 7-foot Andrew Bynum closing out on him, he was still able to get his shot off within the blink of an eye over the outstretched arms of Bynum. It doesn't mean that Barnes isn't a good shooter, just that he can't shoot very fast.

[Ell Curry]

That end of clock stat is interesting. It seems to indicate Barnes lacks 1 on 1 skills. Unlike a guy like Lawson, who could still score efficiently when the clock was winding down, Barnes just ends up missing his shot.

I'm not sure if I'd say it's the lack of one-on-one skills because in the clip you posted such as plays 6 and 10, Barnes had no problem creating space against MKG with a step-back or an in-and-out dribble. MKG's close out barely had any effect on Barnes' shot. He misses shot for a simple reason -- he doesn't have a lightning quick release. If you're going to make shots with the shot clock winding down, you need to have an accurate quick release. Barnes is more of a guy who needs to play around with his dribble before stepping into for a shot where he can fully-extend his elbow even though he can make some off-balance jumpers. Just watching Ty Lawson against the Lakers in the playoffs, you can tell he has a very quick release. Even with a 7-foot Andrew Bynum closing out on him, he was still able to get his shot off within the blink of an eye over the outstretched arms of Bynum. It doesn't mean that Barnes isn't a good shooter, just that he can't shoot very fast.

Are you assuming his release will get faster? If he misses, who cares why, unless it's a fixable reason.

Also, those are bad shot selections. Why take a long 2 pull off the dribble like that with 20 seconds to go and 3 other future lottery picks on the floor? That part of his game might be fixable, though. Spolestra got is 2 superstars to stop shooting 3's and Josh Smith seems to have finally stopped taking terrible long 2's all the time in his late 20's. Barnes seems to be an intelligent guy, and he is only 20, so maybe he will stop hurting his team by taking shots like that.

[Undefeated]

It matters because if he can improve his quick release with accuracy it will allow him to get a cleaner look at the basket. A fraction of a daylight makes a big difference in the game of basketball with the defender slower to close out on your shot. If you think every miss is the same, then you're wrong. If he gets that quick release down, he'll be able to connect on his shots more even with the clock winding down.

Even if those were long two-point attempts, Barnes still created enough air space between him and his defender on those plays. You don't pass up on a shot like that when you create enough space to get a shot off. The ball didn't bounce Barnes' way simple as that. But notice how the interior defense is crowding Henson and Zeller? No guarantees a better shot will present itself. And 20 seconds in college ball isn't the same as 20 seconds in an NBA game which would be consider an early possession. This was more like a structured possession. Not the worst shot-selection like the baseline fade on MKG that almost went over the top of the backboard.

[Ell Curry]

Even if those were long two-point attempts, Barnes still created enough air space between him and his defender on those plays. You don't pass up on a shot like that when you create enough space to get a shot off. The ball didn't bounce Barnes' way simple as that. But notice how the interior defense is crowding Henson and Zeller? No guarantees a better shot will present itself.

I really disagree. Those are not good shots. You can run 2 pick and rolls in that time, or have 10 seconds to get it to Zeller with 10-12 seconds left in the possession in the post.

And Barnes or anyone can get a shot close to that efficient (long 2, very little chance of a foul) if 5% or whatever less likely to go in. That's a 40% shot, right there. You can almost always get that with 20 seconds to go, especially if you're a team as deep and good as UNC.

[Undefeated]

I really disagree. Those are not good shots. You can run 2 pick and rolls in that time, or have 10 seconds to get it to Zeller with 10-12 seconds left in the possession in the post.

And Barnes or anyone can get a shot close to that efficient (long 2, very little chance of a foul) if 5% or whatever less likely to go in. That's a 40% shot, right there. You can almost always get that with 20 seconds to go, especially if you're a team as deep and good as UNC.

Of course those shots are not the best shots UNC could manufacture, but it's not a shot I would get mad over because like I said, he created enough breathing room that he got a somewhat relatively clean look at the basket. His feet are already off the ground before MKG could get up to contest and MKG's hand is barely in his face. The distance between the two is almost a foot that it's a good shot for Barnes who's proven he can knock it down with consistency. Barnes took a shot what the defense gave him, semi-open 17-foot open jumper with the interior defense doing a good job denying Henzon and Zeller.

[fredericklove]

What is so special about his talent level? Is it his decent but not exemplary physical tools - He's fluid but doesn't have great footspeed, which is everything in the NBA. Is it is decent but not exemplary skill talent - He has a fine shooting form but is still around 30th for SFs in the NCAA for shooting and of course, is sh*t in the ballhandling/passing parts of skill. Is it his passable at best basketball instincts - the horrible passing indicates weak vision, he doesn't have a great sense of using his body and strength as much as a guy like Sullinger does. This guy's star talent level reminds me of Marvin Williams and OJ Mayo's star talent level. If you're not a standout talent in some area of physical tools, skill or basketball IQ, I would say there's a good chance a duck is a duck and you're not a standout talent. The only standout talent related to Barnes is his PR agent. Mayo and Marvin held onto their reps from high school long enough for people to just assume they had great talent when from a physical tools/skill/IQ perspective they had nothing standing out

Barnes' footspeed laterally isn't great which is why he doesn't use many crossovers to beat his man. But his vertical quickness exploding forward or taking a step backward is good. This is where he takes advantage of his vertical footspeed in screen-and-roll actions because he knows as soon as he turns the corner, he already has his man chasing him playing catch up. That's why Barnes utilizes a lot of change of pace dribbles like slowing down, using an in-and-out dribble to force the defender putting weight in one direction then quickly accelerating to the rim as he wiggles and weaves his way through traffic. Basically, his ability to use momentum going forward is very good because it takes a lot of sudden changes in gears/speed to probe your way into the paint after turning the corner.

The thing with Barnes' handles is that, it's not something that will make you say wow like you think he can drop his defender. For the lack of a proper term, let's just say his ball-handling are functional handles that's good enough to get where he wants on the floor without turning the ball over. Inadvertently, the way he handles the ball is linked to how well he uses his body. I've said this plenty of times, but rarely will you see Barnes lose the ball from forced turnovers. Most of his turnovers are from like travelling or shuffling his feet before he puts the ball on the floor as he makes his drive to the basket. If you noticed, Barnes usually has that off-hand usually his left to shield the ball away from defenders as they're trying to reach. Or he has his hips as he dribbles the ball on the side of his body. More importantly, Barnes has gotten out of the habit of dribbling the ball in an upright position as if he's sitting on a chair. Now, he's dribbling with his back lower to the floor with his back almost horizontal which is where he gets that burst of speed exploding forward. But as long as Barnes can show that he can knock down the two dribble pull-up with some sort of rhythm, that will force the defender to key in on him and all he has to do is take two strong, power dribbles forward and he's already at the basket.

And he's shown to be very, very good at contorting his body mid-air avoiding charges which is another example that he uses his body very well.

I'm worried about Barnes lack of passing too, but you have to wonder how much of it is from the lack of shot-clock time to work with. When Barnes was expected to be the bail-out guy for the UNC's offense, it doesn't leave much room to create off the dribble for teammates. I don't know how much more glaringly obvious it can be when Roy Williams had frickin' Stilman White running the show for UNC like he was Kendall Marshall when Marshall was sidelined with that wrist injury in the big dance. The guy is barely div. 1 material, and Roy Williams expects him to perform like a projected lotto PG? Get real man. That's when it occur to me Roy Williams unwillingness to adjust his offense. Maybe Barnes might have shown more if Roy Williams had place the ball in his hands more often? Who knows. All I know is nothing is set in stone.

But after reading Ell Curry's post, I'm convinced that Barnes' shooting could or could not translate. 3-PT% don't exactly translate as we saw the huge discrepancy from his list of examples. It's that I'm enamored by his sweet stroke and everlasting range. He already has a picture perfect-esque from extending 25-feet. A lot of times, Barnes doesn't even shoot from the college 3-pt line with his feet on the line when he's parked up top at the key or along the wing. That to me, tells me how he's a good shooter ignoring the shooting percentages and all.

Pretty much sums up what I wanna say there, Undefeated, I know Mufasa won't be able to see my post since he puts me on ignore mode which I don't understand why, maybe he's too scared to confront me in an intellectual way or something, but first off, footspeed is an element where Barnes isn't good at due to result of his unattractive athleticism (lack of first step explosiveness or agility) but he's got the FOOTWORK which is everything in the NBA, footwork does not always rely on footspeed because it is relied majority on the fundamental knowledge in terms of how to use your feet movement to deceive defenders, on top of that you need the overall body movement as added elements to make the footwork work more effectively, so far what Barnes have shown is his 1 on 1 skills of a triple-threat position, I remind you I'm not talking about 1 on 1 using dribbling skills.

This is where I'll further analyze on his footwork skills, precisely, I don't see anyone in the college level is as advanced as Barnes in the jabstep positions, which he start off with, then utilizing different form of jabsteps to get his shots off, so where I want to expand on is his footwork, because he's always bents his knees to make defenders think he's going to drive, but of cos, his footwork along w/good shotfake motion, where Barnes really excell in faking w/ his shoulders (whether in faking the shot with his hands or shoulder and body faking the left or right when taking off), another area is that he utilizes those fakes/footwork/pivot when using p&r, because often times he's able to go under p&r to get his shots off, or fake the defender east or west and take off faster, that's because he fully uses the advantage in the p&r motion, defender has to react to the oncoming screen, and is bothered by it, thus Barnes is able to use this opportunity, where he has the ability to use any part of his feet/legs/shoulders motions to deceive the defenders. So you see, Mufasa, you seriously severely underrate his offensive moves, or his basketball instincts.

Furthermore, one can argue that his 1 on 1 iso skills is poorest when he's forced to use speed or athleticism or dribbles, but in terms of jabsteps/pivot/shot-faking, he's pretty much at the top of the college prospect list. When you said he doesn't have a good sense of using his body/strength, lol you're completely wrong, he's one that uses his upper shoulder strength when he attacks, how else you think he's able to absorb contact? That's because he uses strength in that mode.

Look at you here, using the word "sh*t" to explain the aspects of his game, first, control your emotions, and 2) keep things professional, I admire your dedication on the "scouting" intentions, because I don't see any of us will bother to upload a long 10 minutes self-made youtube clip about Anthony Davis and talk in the background to guide the audience through. So clearly you want to have a "pro scout" mindset, so if you wanna be that, keep things professionally, no need to say "sh*t" when you want to explain a prospect's weakness.

And now, you mentioned Marvin in terms of star talent comparison. Marvin is known for spot-up jumpshots, scouts were right about him not having any additional offensive moves (namely pivot moves/jabstep/off-the-dribble isolation moves, but so far Barnes, he has shown highly advanced jabsteps, not only that, he's able to use a different form of separation moves to offset his fadaway jumper, 1) in&out dribble to start his first-two-step drive, then stop and pull up for a fadaway, or 2) uses hesitation dribble when going to the baseline, takes a step or two then pulls up a fadaway away as far as possible from the defenders, and 3) 2 steps drive into the lane, makes the defenders think that he's driving, but sudden stop, spin backward then pulls up the fadaway. These are 3 forms of ways he uses to pull that fadaway shot off. Precisely, he's shown techniques to offset his fadaway jumper, and not many prospects are able to add in techniques like that when they pull up their fadaway jumper. Normally they just drive, stop, then fadaway their shots. There's no spins/hesitation/in&out added to help get their fadaway shots off. Barnes on the other hand, heavily uses those in his fadaways.

The part I can criticize on is his effiency from the shots he takes after using his moves, he really needs to consistently knock them down, at times he can try to do too much when 1 on 1, keep the game simple, and because he shows so many good fakes, he should acknowledge that these fakes will lead to defenders to leave their feet everytime, thats when he should lean in to try drawing for a foul or and 1. He rarely does that, and it bothers me.

However, at age 19 he's already shown more pivot moves/jabstep/shotfake/different ways of getting his fadaway shots off, showing these array of moves that no other has shown in the college level this year. Name me 2-3 players that can do that (heck, just name 1 so that you can make your counterattack argument a lot easier), but imo, so far there's none. Even a guy like Lamb who excels most when he uses his dribbles, have not been able to showcast any moves to get his fadaway shots off, or actually Lamb rarely fadaway his jumpers. Otherwise, I'm really happy that you no longer stubbornly uses solely the college stat production to dictate 99.9% of your analysis on Barne's game and how using that type of judgement to project how his game will translate in the NBA. It's a good start, that shows your maturity. So look more at what a prospect can do in a micro-level perspective, you'll learn a thing or two.

As I already mentioned again and again, he has shown more advanced moves than most prospects shown this year, otherwise, he's not as skilled as Lamb or River in the breaking down defenders in the lane, but he's shown far more advance in the pivot/jabstep/fakes moves than Lamb or River. Guys you've mentioned Harkness and Ross. They are largely ranked based on their potential, especially Harkness, where Ross is quite good offensively but his physical level isn't as good as Barnes. Where Barnes has is physical maturity and the advanced knowledge on pivot/jabstep/fakes, one can only imagine what other moves he'll add when he's got 2-3 years of NBA experiences and pro-trainers working w/ his offensive repertoire. And also there's a legit reason why a legit scouting site like DX that mentioned Barnes having "highly advanced" moves, that's because he is advanced in those moves. In a shortcoming of speed, agility, elite athleticism, inadequate handles, I say he makes it up for his advanced knowledge in these elements that I've just spoke of.

[Ell Curry]

You can't just ignore college production. The game isn't a beauty contest. It's about making your team more likely to score on an offensive possession and get a stop on the other end. Repeated 90 times or so.

The only thing Barnes did in college better than an average 2nd round pick was play man on man defense. If he's going to take a bunch of contested long 2's, I don't see what that's going to do to help his team win. Can you name an efficient scorer in the league who couldn't hit over 47% of his 2pt shots in college?

Barnes seems like the kind of guy who will put up 18 and 5 on mediocre shooting percentages, and that kind of player does not help a team win. You have to score efficiently, or you have to be an all-around player. I like Barnes' potential as a catch and shooter to spread the floor on offense while playing good man D on big 3's, but lovely prose about his footwork doesn't convince me he's going to figure out how to help his team win with his scoring when he didn't at UNC.

The interview with Barnes should be important. If he understands that he needs to find his offensive niche and stop playing hero-ball, he might have a chance to be an efficient offensive player. If he wants to take contested long 2's all day he can do it somewhere else.