Dwayne Casey's Horrible Coaching

[SciencePiggy]

If you look at big men drafted top 5 over the past 6 years; Jonas' minutes per game is ~2min under the rookie season average. If you take out Enes Kanter (who played less than 5min a game) that changes to ~4min under the average. This might not feel like a big difference but when AA or Bargs get those crunch time minutes and the team is getting pushed around or giving up offensive boards is there any wonder why people want to see Jonas getting 4-6 more minutes?

[22haytham22]

NOBODY BE TALKING BOUT MY BO YEA DIG?

[Marvin Martian]

Clearly Casey needed to play Bargs in the 4th to provide terrible defense and 0 floor stretching.

There is no argument to be made tonight. The roster is flawed but that is no reason for Casey to try to throw this game away by putting Bargs on the floor when Val was playing so well. He should be fired.

Who should he have used?

He played 24 mins (5th most on the team), 3 more than his average. Hes a rookie, Bargs averaged 24.5 mins his first 2 years. I could cite more examples of rookie big men on sheltered mins, but I dont think youll really change your mind anyways. FWIW Bargs only played 15:46.

Who cares if Val is a rookie? This is about putting the team in position to win games. Casey did not do that. Val would have been a better choice at the 5 and Amir at the 4. That lineup got us the huge lead in the first quarter and he went away from it. So why should he remain the coach?

Bargs played during critical stretches of the 4th quarter and the 2nd quarter where he provided terrible D, and no floor spacing while Val was riding the bench. 15 mins of Bargs was all Casey needed to ruin the momentum.

Providing examples of other rookie big men is irrelevant. This team is trying to win so there is no time to play politics. When you are trying to win, you bench the players that are playing poorly and you reward the players that are producing. Casey does not understand this simple concept.

[dballislife]

it turns out his d is average at best but what i cant stand is the fact our offense never seems to flow, sure theres a few good 3-4min stretches here and there but it just always struggles...even the struggling D sometimes clicks for long stretches...but dam our O is pathetic

[Mascot]

Reason for this loss is all on Casey playing Bargnani.


what did we have like a 20 point lead in the first. He puts in Bargs and then we blow it completly and he leaves that piece of crap on the floor in the 4th.


The team honestly hates to see Bargnani go on on the floor and they lose interest in the game totally.

[dTox]

This coach is seriously incompetent, I don't care what anyone says, his rotation and lack of an actual offensive system is driving me nuts. I'm sick and tired of seeing iso's after iso's every game. There was no reason for Andrea to be out there last night, Jonas brought more on D and actually grabs rebounds, we gave away so many defensive rebounds and also showed little weakside help, Jonas was doing well in both departments while he was in the game.

[dTox]

We aren't making the playoffs anymore, I'd rather this team keep losing so we lose all the dead weights on this team: BC, DC, and hopefully Bargs via amnesty

[Tortiglioni]

We aren't making the playoffs anymore, I'd rather this team keep losing so we lose all the dead weights on this team: BC, DC, and hopefully Bargs via amnesty

Fans at the games really need to put the pressure on BC and DC with some chants and continued boos. This is crunch time. If BC gets extended, you might as well write off another five years of Raptors basketball.

[triple_threat]

I simply can not comprehend how anyone can still defend Casey. Firstly his rotations are horrible and leaves players out for to long. Were up by like 12 or 14 he sends out the chucking brigade in Lucas and Anderson with Bargs and Field. That group had no defensive creativity and let the Cavs go on a run. Fields, Anderson, JL3 should never ever be on together because if the two chuckers shots aren't falling then were screwed. What does Anderson do to warrant the major minutes hes getting? I don't get it all, hes a chucker and is decent when his shots falling, other then that hes just meh. We lost this game because he let the starters sit for too long and we had to interior presence defending the paint. Val was playing really good out there and was one of the reasons we were up by so much. Then he decides to glue his ass on the bench for some reason. Casey should be fired after this season, he makes no sense.

Did you just read the OP then post, or did you read the whole thread man? You can comprehend better if you read it. Ill summarize, the roster is flawed, the coach doesnt have many options, or atleast were trying to explore them.

The coach is more flawed than the roster anyone can see that

[will]

It is time to panac!

[Big Shot]

People always talk about the talent of the roster. The bigger issue is the talent of the coaching staff.

[vini_vidi_vici]

If you look at big men drafted top 5 over the past 6 years; Jonas' minutes per game is ~2min under the rookie season average. If you take out Enes Kanter (who played less than 5min a game) that changes to ~4min under the average. This might not feel like a big difference but when AA or Bargs get those crunch time minutes and the team is getting pushed around or giving up offensive boards is there any wonder why people want to see Jonas getting 4-6 more minutes?

So lets list them to be clear.
2012
Anthony Davis (27.7 mins) PER of 20.7. Is he a forward? Played some C, ill count him.
2011
Enes Kanter (13.2 mins) PER of 14.5.
Val (21.3 mins) PER of 13.9
2010
Cousins (28.5 mins) PER of 14.6.
2009
Thabeet (13.0 mins) PER of 12.9.
2008
None.
2007
Oden Injured Rook year. the following year, (21.5 mins) PER of 18.1.
Horford (31.0 mins) PER of 14.7. Is he a forward? Ill include him.

We wont count the the 4s right? (TRob/TT/Blake/etc..) Miss anyone? Take out Val, 134.9 mins averaged divide by 6 players = 22.48 mins average. Thats 1 min diff from 21.3 (Val). Horford/Cousins played 81 games and wasnt injured like Val/Davis. Add to the fact hes been the worst PER of all of them, save for Thabeet, despite the little differences. I dont want to look up rebounding numbers, defensive stats, maybe someone else can do this? All this quibbling about a few mins here and there, to me is irrelevant anyways. Ive said this probably 100 times, development =/= mins. But this is your narrative.

Who loves Drummond here? Me too, hes playing 19.7 mins PER of 22.4. Meyers Leonard 14.6 mins, PER of 12.1. Whatever. How about age of these guys? Horford was 21 year old rook from stateside. Oden 21. Thabeet 22. Cousins 21. Kanter 19. Davis 19. Val 20. Kanter and Val are the only rooks without NCAA experience, Kanter atleast played HS ball here. does this matter?

The reason they are going with Bargs/AA is because in theory they are better offensive threats. And the idea being moving Amir to the 5, to hopefully have the other 4 players spread the floor. unfortunately with the personnel not being able to shoot well from deep, it makes it that much more difficult. This is less an indictment on Val, as its whats trying to accentuate DD/Rudy (the top 2 offensive options) what they do best, drive and if doubled, kick. And what if I told you Aaron Gray for all his faults is a better rebounder than Val? TRB% Val(15.3) is third to Amir(15.4%)/Gray(16.2%).

Im not advocating Gray should get more mins, or is it an indictment on Val or his play, just that hes a rookie and hes playing what I figured prior to the season, if not more. But im arguing with people (not yourself), who honestly think they are better coaches than Casey here. This is getting way off topic though, and more about Val specifically and that move.

[vini_vidi_vici]

The coach is more flawed than the roster anyone can see that

See these are the type of responses that I can do nothing with. I summarized because you ppl clearly dont wanna read, which is fine. But if you were to read, I tried my best to put alot of crap out there to chew on and think about. This is what I get back. Id ask how the coach is more flawed, but at this point im tired of asking people to rationalize their narratives.

[lobosloboslobos]

So VVV,

my question to you would be WHY do we need to shelter Jonas? I get that this is what is typically done with young bigs, but JV has had a couple years of playing against full-grown men. He obviously has endless energy and could easily play more minutes, so why not play him more?

Secondly, how do you explain/justify our failure to capitalize on Val's tremendous ability to roll and finish? This is a guy who shot 70% in Euroleague last year as well as in the Lithuanian league, mostly off of p'n'rs. He specializes in this one thing above all others that when done right is almost impossible to defend, and yet we virtually never run it for him. That has to be 100% on the coach, doesn't it?

p.s. if I sound annoyed it is not with your analysis of Casey it is with our refusal to give JV the ball where he can do the most damage with it. But I'm ready to be educated of there are reasons...

[CrymeTime]

Experience (Bargs) over willing youth, energetic defence (Jonas).

Also, didn't Casey mention something about only liking a maximum of 1 rookie on the roster? He must really hate having 3.

[Rapcity_11]

So VVV,

my question to you would be WHY do we need to shelter Jonas? I get that this is what is typically done with young bigs, but JV has had a couple years of playing against full-grown men. He obviously has endless energy and could easily play more minutes, so why not play him more?

Secondly, how do you explain/justify our failure to capitalize on Val's tremendous ability to roll and finish? This is a guy who shot 70% in Euroleague last year as well as in the Lithuanian league, mostly off of p'n'rs. He specializes in this one thing above all others that when done right is almost impossible to defend, and yet we virtually never run it for him. That has to be 100% on the coach, doesn't it?

p.s. if I sound annoyed it is not with your analysis of Casey it is with our refusal to give JV the ball where he can do the most damage with it. But I'm ready to be educated of there are reasons...

I want to add a couple thoughts here.

1. I wouldn't say JV is being "sheltered". Starting and playing ~24 mins a game is a fair amount of PT for a 20 year old C. Especially for a team, (that stupidly) is in win-now mode. Personally, I'd like to see him at 28-30 mins, but overall ~24 mins is fine.

2. Regarding PnR's, a couple reasons the Raps don't run more for him. First, Lowry isn't a great PnR passer. Second, Amir is the better PnR finisher at this point in time. Third, the PnR requires proper floor spacing which the Raps have none of. Last, PnR's generally succeed, not when it is run properly but when the defense makes a mistake. The Raps are one of the easiest teams to not make a mistake against by having weakside defenders pack the paint.

Oh, and they still run quite a few JV PnR's a game, they just often don't develop at all.

[vini_vidi_vici]

So VVV,

my question to you would be WHY do we need to shelter Jonas? I get that this is what is typically done with young bigs, but JV has had a couple years of playing against full-grown men. He obviously has endless energy and could easily play more minutes, so why not play him more?

Secondly, how do you explain/justify our failure to capitalize on Val's tremendous ability to roll and finish? This is a guy who shot 70% in Euroleague last year as well as in the Lithuanian league, mostly off of p'n'rs. He specializes in this one thing above all others that when done right is almost impossible to defend, and yet we virtually never run it for him. That has to be 100% on the coach, doesn't it?

p.s. if I sound annoyed it is not with your analysis of Casey it is with our refusal to give JV the ball where he can do the most damage with it. But I'm ready to be educated of there are reasons...

Can I start with, im not some genius, im some douchebag looking up these things. I play alot of poker, and contribute alot here. If I were to say to Phil Galfond in his "well", you suck because you had a horrible line, with no explaination, it wouldnt spur thought and analysis. I dont mind doing some research, but guys all I ask is you do your own, BBREF is here for everyone. If you have a narrative, prove it yourself. Sorry LLL not you, just venting hah.

So lets start with Jonas' finishing ability via PnR, this is where I love Synergy, just wish I had more access. Hes a good, almost great finisher in the PnR (1.08 PPP), but his volume isnt alot so perhaps its a small sample size. One thing id like to mention is we run less PnR because our creators prefer ISO where they can see the trap coming, instead of forcing the trap or hedge. Since Calderon has been gone, those great feeds to the roller have tapered off too. Ironically as good as Val has been, Bargs has been right there with about the same volume (1.02 PPP). So to me its less about what we need to get Val going, more that we cant put players (the creators) in positions they dont prefer. Having said that, last night in particular, they used alot of screen and roll, and sets so maybe as the team gets more comfortable together it will come. Lets evaluate this more after the season, with a bigger sample size with Rudy/etc..? Also with a team that has no shooters to spread the floor, its tough to run PnR and get the roller the ball because the paint is so packed in with defenders, which ive mentioned ad nauseum.

The reason teams do it is because they are looking at a long term investment. They dont push big man esp because of the weight they carry on their knees, the obvious things. Could Val handle extended mins, probably, does anyone in the NBA think mins =/= development, NO. So now weve seen the standard for big men mins, and Val is in line with them. Could/should he play more, probably, but I wont argue over 2-3 mins here and there.

I wish I could contribute more, but im limited in access to their health/practices/team meetings/etc..

[vini_vidi_vici]

I want to add a couple thoughts here.

1. I wouldn't say JV is being "sheltered". Starting and playing ~24 mins a game is a fair amount of PT for a 20 year old C. Especially for a time, (that stupidly) is in win-now mode. Personally, I'd like to see him at 28-30 mins, but overall ~24 mins is fine.

2. Regarding PnR's, a couple reasons the Raps don't run more for him. First, Lowry isn't a great PnR passer. Second, Amir is the better PnR finisher at this point in time. Third, the PnR requires proper floor spacing which the Raps have none of. Last, PnR's generally succeeds, not when run it properly but when the defense makes a mistake. The Raps are one of the easiest teams to not make a mistake against by having weakside defenders pack the paint.

Oh, and they still run quite a few JV PnR's a game, they just often don't develop at all.

Youre probably right, sheltered is not the right term, but you understood what I was implying.

Great post man.

[garbagnani]

Reason for this loss is all on Casey playing Bargnani.


what did we have like a 20 point lead in the first. He puts in Bargs and then we blow it completly and he leaves that piece of crap on the floor in the 4th.


The team honestly hates to see Bargnani go on on the floor and they lose interest in the game totally.

as usual fans will blame bargnani for everything.

The lead disappeared when went small. look at the plus minus of anderson - 27 in 14 minutes. When Anderson was on the floor we were using our small lineup. rudy gay was pf and either amir or bargs were center, with lucas as pg. this line-up is pathetic. It got destroyed.

[garbagnani]

Jonas was playing great last night yet he plays 24 minutes? why? so casey could play small ball half the game (with bargs or amir being our only big on the floor). Rudy gay has played half his minutes as a raptor at pf. its ridiculous.