Draft Thread Part 4

[Psubs]

I would be okay taking Bouknight #6 so at #7 sure. Just wondering if he'll be a 24ppg chucker or continue to develop like Kobe.

I wonder if Jalen Green is more like a mini Vince Carter while Bouknight is more like a Kobe, stylistically.

Fk ... if we can land in the top 3, and it goes 1 Cade 2 Mobley ... we are laughing. We take Green and run.

I agree. I think he'll likely be Zach Lavine with maybe slightly more potential, but Lavine is pretty awesome.

[ChromeKid]

I would be okay taking Bouknight #6 so at #7 sure. Just wondering if he'll be a 24ppg chucker or continue to develop like Kobe.

I wonder if Jalen Green is more like a mini Vince Carter while Bouknight is more like a Kobe, stylistically.

Fk ... if we can land in the top 3, and it goes 1 Cade 2 Mobley ... we are laughing. We take Green and run.

Watch this be like the 2017 draft where the hyped player (cade/fultz) gets outclassed by the 3rd pick (green/tatum), the lottery can't come soon enough.

[Marty_Budda]

Nah, most guys start their upward trend by their mid 20s.

Ya, the really great ones have a prime of 23-33.

Some might have peak prime around 27-32, but it's not THAT much higher than their pre-post numbers.

I was more thinking 24-25 since he’ll still be in his rookie deal at that age.

I mean all time greats have primes from like 22-37ish if we’re looking at that. LeBron carried bums to the final at 22. Doncic’s numbers at 21/22 suggest he may be entering his prime lol. I’m talking about regular all star players. Most of their primes are late 20s. It’s an age when your body is still strong and you have lots of nba experience to read the game at a high level.

[B-Ball Freak]

Jalen Johnson just seems like the type of guy that'll be out of the league in 2-3 years.

I see him as a guy that goes low in the draft and people wonder 2-3 years from now why he wasn't taken higher. Similar to Robert WIlliams or MPJ

Thats possible too, I don't see his ceiling as high as MPJ's but no doubt there is talent there, it's just apparently he tends to drift in and out of games and ''supposedly'' has character issues.

[canada_dry]

That seems like a weird rationale. You'd be cutting out Zion Personally I don't think measurements/physical stuff matters much when boots hit the ground.

This isn't about knowing things for sure. It's risk assessment and risk minimization. Maybe not a problem in Toronto, but I think a lot of teams don't want to take a risk on the undersized player. Part of the risk is that if he busts, then management looks bad and eventually gets fired. So those guys tend to go outside the lottery, or in the 2nd round. Hey, I don't make the rules.

Masai generally picks lengthy guys (Malachi at #29 was the obvious exception, but he's a PG). How likely is he to use the highest lottery pick he's ever had on an undersized guy, whether Mitchell or Sengun ... or Garuba? (I just saw he's only 6' 8", so my interest in him has waned.)

The first question is why, if he's too short and unathletic, is he dominating pros at 18?

Because this isn't a strong year for the Turkish League?

I don't care as much about size if the player can make quick decisions and shows good positioning on defensive. Marc Gasol was an elite defender in the NBA not based on outquicking guy. Going further back, Garbojosa was a great stretch four with a bit of playmaking and heady defense. The guy was smoking between quarters and was still effective.

My issue with Sengun is really about fit. He is primarily a post-up big which is not how Toronto plays. Yes, he has shown a few outside shots, but he is not going to be a stretch PF/C because he won't be able to put the ball on floor to attack a close-out. At least, where is currently, I have a hard time seeing it. Literally no one is operating exclusively out of the post anymore so basically he needs to go to a team open to feeding the post. It is just not how Toronto plays and I cannot see them conforming to him.

Secondly, on defense, he is likely a drop coverage big. His lack of length is an issue on that end. He doesn't look like he would be able to switch either so I am not sure how you really use him. Maybe he will be smart like Bejlica, but even he topped out as only a bench big in all his stops.

Lastly, Sengun cannot speak English. He does all his interviews through a translator. He isn't like Jokic or Doncic who grew up with English as a second or third language. Not sure how it impacts adapting to a new culture, style of play and connecting with teammates, but unless this guy has a big personality like JV, I don't know if he will feel isolated and homesick. I follow Euroleague loosely, and throughout the years Greece has had so many amazing players who never stepped foot in the US because of the language and culture shock. I know Turkey has some good recent history with Korkmaz, Cedi and of course Kanter, but Sengun seems behind in that aspect.

Ur not taking into consideration he's capable of being impactful offensively without having more than 2 post ups a game ran for him. Hes got ability off the dribble to take on bigs. His playmaking from the top of the key is one of his best attributes. His playmaking period. We can have him operate in that gasol role eventually. He can even be a rebound and go type of big. Thats how skilled he is. The mid range from that top of the key will be a weapon too. If he adds a 3 point shot? Curtains. But even without that, what hed be best in as a rook is just a pick n roll finisher. He finishes among the trees. On top of the trees in fact. A kyle+ sengun pick n roll will be a sight for sore eyes after what we had to deal with in the form of Banes. Hes not just good as a pick n roll finisher btw, he projects as ELITE. We arent talking slow bowling ball in china store JV typa rolling n finishing (which was still pretty effective). This guys built for it. Quick. Agile. Explosive (offensively at least lol)

So yeah what you're not taking into consideration is this guys just GOOD offensively. U (and others) are trying to limit him to a skilled post up player. Hes just a good offensive player period even without any post ups.

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[Indeed]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Davion would be nice in the late lotto, but he would be a bad reach at #7. He is quick, but his other athletic tools are nothing special. He doesn't get to the line nor does he actually hit his FTs when he gets there. The shooting improvement is encouraging, but for an undersized guard who isn't blessed with elite athleticism you need everything in your bag...pull up jumper, off the dribble jumper, floaters and elite finishing around the rim. He has aspects of some of that, but he is still very much a work in progress there. Besides, it isn't like he is Morant/Fox quick, he is going to face a lot of adjustment time when he goes up against NBA athletes and size.

Look back to last years draft...

Compared to Haliburton, Kira Lewis Jr, Cole Anthony, Maxey and RJ Hampton how much better of a prospect is he really? Yeah, he projects better defensively than those guys, but he is at least 2 years older than all of these guys except Haliburton (only 1 year older). PG is stacked in the league right now and to use the #7th pick on a guy whose upside is limited is bad management.

[720]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

Nah screw that. I don’t care for drafting a sure fire starter with a top 7 pick. Go for it, take a risk and try and hit a home run ball. This team needs a star.

[VanWest82]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

Except Davion did dominate those games, just not via scoring. He ran the offense to perfection vs. Houston finishing with 11 assists and 0 turnovers while completely shutting down Jarreau. Against Gonzaga he went back and forth between Kispert and Suggs making life miserable for both and blowing up a bunch of offensive possessions. Suggs got hot in the 2nd half (mostly vs. Butler) when the game was slipping away but Mitchell was incredible. This is his best quality - that he can dominate games in a multitude of ways.

[OakleyDokely]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

If the Raps were drafting late lotto, I wouldn't have a problem with Mitchell. I just dont see enough offensive upside or defensive versatility (he will only be able to guard guards at his size/wingspan) to take him top 7.

[Indeed]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

Nah screw that. I don’t care for drafting a sure fire starter with a top 7 pick. Go for it, take a risk and try and hit a home run ball. This team needs a star.

Again, I have Kai Jones at 7. But someone saying he has no offense and project like Marcus Smart is just way over. He would be a lottery pick with attributes that can translate to the NBA.

There are lots of guards in the league, so I was never interested in guards, even in the 2nd round.

[canada_dry]

Kai Jones is the biggest boom or bust pick in the top 20.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Dalek]

In the previous thread I mentioned Kai Jones, but just wanted to mention him as the best option for Toronto from picks 7-10.

Here is example of the full Kai Jones experience (contests a shot on the perimeter then in transition, catches the ball and attacks with a eurostep to score:

Read on Twitter

Here is locking up Cade with no help:

Read on Twitter

The block and dunk special - noticing how he beats the other team down the floor:

Read on Twitter

Remembering Kai is 6'11 and this fluid with the effort he shows it just feels natural that he will become a star player in the NBA barring injury. Toronto, which develops lanky athletic guys like Siakam and Boucher could make this guy special. This is no Bruno situation where he lacks fluidity and talent.

I have him at 7 - 9 as our first option. Really like his ability to defend 1 - 5, and he can develop his 3 point shooting and ball handling.
Really wish he measures out longer than 7'1. I prefer someone with 7'3 wingspan to play the C spot.

We will see how he measures out, but he is a pretty good leaper from a standstill position. I think he will be equal to Nic Claxton at 6'11 and 7'2" wingspan. I agree on the wingspan being ideally around 7'3 but it isn't a deal breaker for me. He is so athletic and toolsy.

[OakleyDokely]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

Except Davion did dominate those games, just not via scoring. He ran the offense to perfection vs. Houston finishing with 11 assists and 0 turnovers while completely shutting down Jarreau. Against Gonzaga he went back and forth between Kispert and Suggs making life miserable for both and blowing up a bunch of offensive possessions. Suggs got hot late in the 2nd half (mostly vs. Butler) when the game was slipping away but Mitchell was incredible. This is his best quality - that he can dominate games in a multitude of ways.

That's nice and all, but there are plenty of small, defensive oriented guards who can handle the ball available and you don't have to take them with top picks.

His ability to score and shoot it will largely determine his NBA value.

[OAKLEY_2]

Davion's offense is such a big question mark. He's been a mediocre FT shooter throughout his career and up until this year he's been a mediocre 3pt shooter. He also doesn't get to the line and it will be even harder in the NBA at his size. I expect much better offensive production from a senior, especially if I'm taking him with a top 7 pick.

I think his high end upside is a VanVleet type. Hit 3s and defend guards at a relatively high level.

I know Norm was not picked 7th or 8th but look at how he slowly established his shot and also came in a senior. OG was on nobody's radar until late in college. A solid senior year and championship plus the elite twitch factor plus defence plus lateral quicks is going to translate the only knock is he starts his NBA career at 23. If he dominates that is a small price to pay. A price we paid for Norm. Delon, Paskal and Malachi. Then his development need not badly lag Paskal, OG, Fred core. But if Lowry comes back or that looks likely in other words I would say do not pick him.

[Indeed]

Gonzaga and Houston were full of future NBA draft picks.

Against Gonzaga, he shot 6-15 (15 pts)
Against Houston, he shot 4-11 (12 pts)

Yes his team won, but he didnt dominate.

It was actually his teammate Jared Butler who stepped up offensively. He shot 6/9 (17 pts) vs HOU and 6/14 (22 pts) against Gonzaga.

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

If the Raps were drafting late lotto, I wouldn't have a problem with Mitchell. I just dont see enough offensive upside or defensive versatility (he will only be able to guard guards at his size/wingspan) to take him top 7.

Not sure what you are watching in terms of defensive versatility. Not sure what he is not proven on guarding multiple positions on switch in spot minutes. I can understand the offense, and workout may dictate that, but defense wise, I think there should not be much of an argument there.

[OakleyDokely]

He dominated on the defensive end, while he sets up Butler on offense.
So is there a reason he needs to dominate the offense as well when someone is already doing that? Being a championship team, is it about show casing yourself? If not, isn't that exactly show why he belongs to a championship team as being a team player?

Meanwhile, Jared Butler isn't projected higher than Davion for a reason.

Please also lower your expectation beyond top 4, none of them after top 4 dominates the game, otherwise, they would be in the top 4 category. We are very lucky this year that we might able to draft a starter at 6 - 10 range.

If the Raps were drafting late lotto, I wouldn't have a problem with Mitchell. I just dont see enough offensive upside or defensive versatility (he will only be able to guard guards at his size/wingspan) to take him top 7.

Not sure what you are watching in terms of defensive versatility. Not sure what he is not proven on guarding multiple positions on switch in spot minutes. I can understand the offense, and workout may dictate that, but defense wise, I think there should not be much of an argument there.

He has a 6'4/6'5 wingspan. He's small by NBA standards. He's going to be limited to defending guards, maybe some small wings.

A guy like Smart can defend wings because he has like a 6'8 wingspan.

Size does matter when it comes to defense. Who would you rather have as a defender? OG or Davion Mitchell? The big wing is always more valuable compared.to the small guard because they can defend up and down the lineup.

[Dalek]

Kai Jones is the biggest boom or bust pick in the top 20.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I'd argue that Scottie Barnes has a higher bust potential. Poor shooter and not willing to do the dirty work in the paint. If he doesn't buy into being more of a PF/C he is a bit positionless.

[Indeed]

In the previous thread I mentioned Kai Jones, but just wanted to mention him as the best option for Toronto from picks 7-10.

Here is example of the full Kai Jones experience (contests a shot on the perimeter then in transition, catches the ball and attacks with a eurostep to score:

Read on Twitter

Here is locking up Cade with no help:

Read on Twitter

The block and dunk special - noticing how he beats the other team down the floor:

Read on Twitter

Remembering Kai is 6'11 and this fluid with the effort he shows it just feels natural that he will become a star player in the NBA barring injury. Toronto, which develops lanky athletic guys like Siakam and Boucher could make this guy special. This is no Bruno situation where he lacks fluidity and talent.

I have him at 7 - 9 as our first option. Really like his ability to defend 1 - 5, and he can develop his 3 point shooting and ball handling.
Really wish he measures out longer than 7'1. I prefer someone with 7'3 wingspan to play the C spot.

We will see how he measures out, but he is a pretty good leaper from a standstill position. I think he will be equal to Nic Claxton at 6'11 and 7'2" wingspan. I agree on the wingspan being ideally around 7'3 but it isn't a deal breaker for me. He is so athletic and toolsy.

Definitely his leaping is good, but require timing, wingspan covers a lot of group as well.

I wonder if we will trade Boucher for another pick (hopefully in the lottery?).
For example, Steven Adams and New Orleans 1st for Boucher and Hood. Boucher should be better than anyone they draft at that point and they cleared salary to re-sign Ball.

[VanWest82]

I just dont see enough...defensive versatility (he will only be able to guard guards at his size/wingspan) to take him top 7.

All the available evidence suggests this is wrong. Baylor routinely had Mitchell guard the biggest / most imposing wing threat, including guys like Cade and Kispert, and hardly any of them had any sustained success against him. Mostly Mitchell punked them. He also frequently switched onto bigger players in the post. He was great defending guards too but there's a fairly large sample which would suggest he'll be able to punch up defensively at the next level.

That's nice and all, but there are plenty of small, defensive oriented guards who can handle the ball available and you don't have to take them with top picks.

His ability to score and shoot it will largely determine his NBA value.

I don't believe there are plenty of guards on Mitchell's level, and reducing his impact to his ability to score the ball at an elite level is a mistake imo. I'm not locked in on taking him or anything just frequently surprised at the amount of hard push back on his ceiling as an all around player given how compelling the eye test is.