The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[Raps in 4]

Suggs willed this trash Magic team to a win after Cole kept screwing up. I don't think Barnes would be good enough to do the same "at this moment". Barnes looks like a guys who really thrives with decent pieces around him. Suggs on otherhand looks like he'll be good enough to take over games by himself. That's the difference I see.

That's precisely why most people wanted us to draft Suggs. He has the potential to develop into a first option on offence. Barnes looks more like a super role player. The former are much harder to find.

[Alodar]

Below is a completely meaningless analysis from a single summer league game:

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Name   FGM   FGA   FG%   3PA   3P%   FTA   FT% OREB DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   PTS   +/-

Game Stats from ESPN in order of the above categories

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JS   9   22   40.9   6   50   4   75   2   7   09   1   2   3   2   4   24   -18
SB   7   18   38.9   4   25   4   75   5   5   10   5   2   1   1   2   18   11

Both looked great but I'll take the +11 player, who can effortlessly throw left-handed full court passes, over the -18 player every time. (As an FYI Malachi Flynn was a -4)

[OakleyDokely]

Suggs willed this trash Magic team to a win after Cole kept screwing up. I don't think Barnes would be good enough to do the same "at this moment". Barnes looks like a guys who really thrives with decent pieces around him. Suggs on otherhand looks like he'll be good enough to take over games by himself. That's the difference I see.

That's precisely why most people wanted us to draft Suggs. He has the potential to develop into a first option on offence. Barnes looks more like a super role player. The former are much harder to find.

Suggs hasn't shown that type of offensive upside at any level though. Being a #1 option on a contender makes you a top 10ish player overall. If he had that type of upside he would've been picked 1st or 2nd overall not 5th.

The appeal of Suggs is his all-around game and low bust potential not that he will become a dominant offensive force. The chances he becomes a Curry, Harden or Lillard offensively is extremely low and if people are expecting that, they will probably be disappointed.

[Randle McMurphy]

This comparison may never end up looking favourable for the Raptors, but it certainly won't for the first year or so. Hope Raptors fans don't take it out on Barnes at all. It's not his fault they took him at #4.

[OakleyDokely]

I see the Draymond comps a lot but Barnes is ahead of him at similar developmental stages. Draymond averaged 3/3/1 in 11 minutes in his freshman year at Michigan St.

[NBA Sheady]

This was pretty ridiculous. His athleticism will easily play. His rebounding was crazy too.

I don't know that I've ever seen ANY nba player block a shot from a worse base. His feet were in the worst possible position to make that happen and yet he did. Unreal.

[normgod6]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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[Raps in 4]

This was pretty ridiculous. His athleticism will easily play. His rebounding was crazy too.

I don't know that I've ever seen ANY nba player block a shot from a worse base. His feet were in the worst possible position to make that happen and yet he did. Unreal.

I never understood how people could call him unathletic in college. Were people watching the same player?

[FluLikeSymptoms]

This was pretty ridiculous. His athleticism will easily play. His rebounding was crazy too.

I don't know that I've ever seen ANY nba player block a shot from a worse base. His feet were in the worst possible position to make that happen and yet he did. Unreal.

Suggs is a better shot-blocker than Barnes. Just not Scottie’s deal. Barnes at C is a non-starter, he’s not great in either restricted area. Pascal and OG are more C-like than him.

[Raps in 4]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

[everdiso]

So scottie and Suggs are similarly impactful now, and Scottie has oodles of upside left to tap.

Sweet.

[everdiso]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

Suggs becoming that level of 3pt ace is a stretch.

[TrustFundBaby]

To me this isn't even a comparison.

I saw Barnes do everything. Protected the rim, deterred drives, cleanly stripped his man on the perimeter and had another steal of a lazy pass with his length, got boards with that insane length, hit a floater, post up, touchdown pass, fake into a 3.

The guy had a poor shooting night but he filled the stat sheet and was a +11

Suggs scored more but that's literally it. I got Barnes up everywhere else big

[gbball]

Suggs willed this trash Magic team to a win after Cole kept screwing up. I don't think Barnes would be good enough to do the same "at this moment". Barnes looks like a guys who really thrives with decent pieces around him. Suggs on otherhand looks like he'll be good enough to take over games by himself. That's the difference I see.

That's precisely why most people wanted us to draft Suggs. He has the potential to develop into a first option on offence. Barnes looks more like a super role player. The former are much harder to find.

Suggs played well down the stretch, but I think it was moreso Goldenstate messing up.

Turnover on the inbounds, botched fastbreak, missed dunk, missed freetrows.

Suggs gets the credit and deservedly so to some degree, but Golden state did what they could to throw this one away.

[Raps in 4]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

Suggs becoming that level of 3pt ace is a stretch.

Not really. He has good shooting mechanics already and shot 34% from 3 in college. He was 3-6 yesterday in his SL debut. I can see him easily gettng to 37%+ from 3.

[normgod6]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

i disagree on kyrie as he has shown with the celtics that his efficiency drops too much as the first option in the playoffs due to his small size. Dame is closer with his outlier shooting skills but it still seems to be not enough to truly lift a team to championship contention. Trae also had his efficiency drop this playoffs but I can see him becoming a true first option as he has generational playmaking and passing skills that can make up for poorer efficiency. Jalen Suggs definitely isnt a generational playmaker so his path to true first option status is to become a Dame level shooter atleast. True first options usually have size to be able to get shots off over people whenever they want. Think of dudes like Jokic, Kawhi, KD, LeBron. All of them have their efficiency rise in the playoffs as a first option because their great size makes them literally unstoppable.

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[ruckus]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

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Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

But on a championship team? Only Steph has shown that ability. Kyrie was 2nd option on that Cavs team. Dame hasn't gotten his team to the Finals. Maybe Trae can get there but I don't really see it.

Even CP3, who most people will slot in as a top 5 PG of all time, has only 1 Finals appearance under his belt. Now, you can validly argue that it's more a function of the teams around those players but I think other positions have more impact on teams that have championship aspirations.

[execoftheyear]

both are going to be really good imo. I feel like Barnes' game translates better to playoff basketball though when the pace slows down and defense becomes a bigger factor. Suggs will be a very exciting regular season player though but I could see him struggling in a slow paced grind it out half court game.

[Raps in 4]

i dont get why people are slotting in suggs to become a first option? There is only one first option guard in the entire league in steph. The jury's still out on Dame as a real first option on a championship team and even consensus first overall dudes like kyrie and john wall have proven they arent good enough to be first options. Its really really hard to be a first option as a guard and I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about jalen suggs ceiling as a first option with his lack of creativity off the bounce and at the rim

Sent from my SM-A530W using RealGM Forums mobile app

Steph, Dame, Trae, and Kyrie can all be first options on successful teams, and 3 of them are.

But on a championship team? Only Steph has shown that ability. Kyrie was 2nd option on that Cavs team. Dame hasn't gotten his team to the Finals. Maybe Trae can get there but I don't really see it.

Even CP3, who most people will slot in as a top 5 PG of all time, has only 1 Finals appearance under his belt. Now, you can validly argue that it's more a function of the teams around those players but I think other positions have more impact on teams that have championship aspirations.

That's a silly argument. They aren't on championship calibre teams. The second best player on the Blazers is CJ McCollum. The second best player on the Hawks is Capella? Bogdan? Collins? The best running mates CP3 played with in his career were Blake and Booker.

But Dame next to AD last year and the Lakers likely still win the title.

[Parataxis]

Suggs is an insanely good player. I’m a huge fan of him regardless of us not picking him.

We will almost certainly regret taking him this year. Maybe not in 5 years. I think he was a no brainer pick and Masai and co decided to be cute. Time will tell.

…. Yea, that’s what happened .. it wasn’t cuz they truly believed that Barnes was the better prospect ( has many did, some even thinking Barnes could go top 2) it was BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE CUTE

Yes this is what I think. When Suggs was unanimously a top 4 prospect and Masai and Co decide to "ZAG" and pick Barnes, that is being cute. They talked themselves into their guy. Very cute, you went your own way and picked your guy. I did not say whether they were right or wrong. But it is unreasonable to argue that Suggs was not a clear top 4 prospect when every expert, mock draft, etc had him in the top 4.

Suggs very obviously wasn't a unanimous top 4 prospect.

Source - he wasn't drafted in the top 4.