Masai messed up but deserves another chance

[disoblige]

All three of those links go back to 2015 or 16. No one denies the success of the bench mob young guys leading up to the championship. It's more about, what have you done lately.

I'll ask again have there been players since Fred, Boucher et al who would have been good but Nurse stifled then?

Your point was "There's a long list of underwhelming or flopped player acquisitions since 2019". Like I said before, we had no high picks except Barnes.

How do you expect late 1st round, 2nd round picks and undrafted to be above average? Not only that, why do you expect them to develop quickly? The reason why we are ranked so high is because we got Siakam for a mid/late 1st and Fred as undrafted which both become all-stars / all nba team. Which is not the norm.

You can even see here our transactions vs other teams.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-oHLgpPE-uJjh0bczlDJz6DzzvyiszBASXnCBWSJzYk/edit#gid=373208752

Player acquisitions includes player signings as well as draft picks. Since 2019 RHJ, Len, Baynes, on and on, I don't feel like typing out the names. No hidden gems, none. But if you feel Masai has done great and the team is in a good place, more power to you.

Barnes, Quickley and Barrett counts as gems.

We had a core of Fred, Siakam, OG, Barnes, GTJ, Poeltl. These "gems" better be better than these players or they wont see miinutes anyways. Our problem was lack of superstar than some undrafted/low pick becoming a rotational player.

[bballsparkin]

San Antonio is a small market, what was the advantage to the league there?

No idea. Marketing is bigger than just size. Toronto is pretty big but I wouldn't ever be confident that they would win the lottery in a draft considered to have an upper tier player like Victor.

[Scase]

All three of those links go back to 2015 or 16. No one denies the success of the bench mob young guys leading up to the championship. It's more about, what have you done lately.

I'll ask again have there been players since Fred, Boucher et al who would have been good but Nurse stifled then?

Your point was "There's a long list of underwhelming or flopped player acquisitions since 2019". Like I said before, we had no high picks except Barnes.

How do you expect late 1st round, 2nd round picks and undrafted to be above average? Not only that, why do you expect them to develop quickly? The reason why we are ranked so high is because we got Siakam for a mid/late 1st and Fred as undrafted which both become all-stars / all nba team. Which is not the norm.

You can even see here our transactions vs other teams.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-oHLgpPE-uJjh0bczlDJz6DzzvyiszBASXnCBWSJzYk/edit#gid=373208752

Player acquisitions includes player signings as well as draft picks. Since 2019 RHJ, Len, Baynes, on and on, I don't feel like typing out the names. No hidden gems, none. But if you feel Masai has done great and the team is in a good place, more power to you.

You're wasting your time

[SharoneWright]

[disoblige]

It's really sad that not enough people see this point or many are flat out ignoring / denying it.

The pain from those trades is just getting started.

Nah, its just bias from posters who didnt want to trade for Poeltl. Unless this 8th pick is an all-star or a better player than Poeltl, you shouldnt be losing your sleep over it.

Proving my point completely by being disingenuous. The true cost of Poeltl is higher than simply the '24 pick. But I'm not going to get into it deep. If you don't get it by now, you never will.

Like I said before, I made a tank thread 2 yrs ago and it was locked and 3 out of 13 voted YES to tanking/rebuilding. And many said it was not probable or a good idea.

You can't execute a plan where your stakeholders, seat holders, staff and players don't agree with.

[TGM]

Just to put things in perspective there has been a trend that has been happening in the NBA for the last few years. Fringe all-stars and all-stars on big contracts are perceived more as liabilities than assets. Unless a superstar is being moved you aren't getting the same amount of value. Teams caught with guys on max deals when they enter their 30s end up crippling themselves.

People crap on Masai about Lowry, Fred, Pascal, but those guys honestly were not worth what they were getting paid or soon to be paid.

Look at Chicago, you don't think they would have moved Derozan, Lavine or Vuc? They didn't because the value in the league for such a player is not that high.

The Trend moving forward is that teams cannot keep three superstars and if you sign the third guy to a max, you better be prepared to pay taxes through your nose and win a chip. Therefore the way to build a sustainable contender will be 2 max players and like 4-5 guys in the 15-20 million range, a few rookies and a few vets.

[Scase]

Just to put things in perspective there has been a trend that has been happening in the NBA for the last few years. Fringe all-stars and all-stars on big contracts are perceived more as liabilities than assets. Unless a superstar is being moved you aren't getting the same amount of value. Teams caught with guys on max deals when they enter their 30s end up crippling themselves.

People crap on Masai about Lowry, Fred, Pascal, but those guys honestly were not worth what they were getting paid or soon to be paid.

Look at Chicago, you don't think they would have moved Derozan, Lavine or Vuc? They didn't because the value in the league for such a player is not that high.

The Trend moving forward is that teams cannot keep three superstars and if you sign the third guy to a max, you better be prepared to pay taxes through your nose and win a chip. Therefore the way to build a sustainable contender will be 2 max players and like 4-5 guys in the 15-20 million range, a few rookies and a few vets.

None of this changes that FVV walked for nothing when there were offers on the table, and Siakam was traded 1-2 years late. It's the FO's jobs to see these trends ahead of time and be proactive. You make it sound like we were smart for not re-signing FVV/Siakam. Masai tried to bring Fred back and failed, and had Fred successfully been brought back, the plan was to do the same with Siakam.

So you can say that they are not worth what they are getting paid, and I agree fully. But Masai was planning on paying them 30-35mil and 50ish a year. The exact prices that they are not worth, and as you stated, unable to build a sustainable contender.

So people are right to have crapped on them, cause they were about to make the exact mistake you're pointing out, had the Rockets not saved him.

[Quattro]

I'm actually scared it might be the opposite.

if you really look at things honestly..

He wasn't really in Denver long.

When Masai came to the Raptors we thought he was going to build a team from scratch but the BC core took over and was the foundation for all those good teams -- Derozan/ Lowry/ JV etc. -- we forgot he completely inherited the heart and soul of all those teams.

The scouting staff did some good drafting during those years -- (Siakam, OG, Powell, FVV)

He 100% gets credit for having the balls to make the Kawhi trade--- his biggest win.

but besides that...SO MANY TERRIBLE DECISIONS LAST 5 YEARS (when it was arguably his time to perform the most roster management as an executive)

• he's shown to be way overly emotionally attached to his players which negatively effects his decision making (not moving on from core sooner turned into a complete disaster)
  
  
• Seems obsessed with the concept of "winning" or shall we say "not losing" leading to a number of more disaster treadmill roster moves: trading a top 10 pick when team was going no where + needed to rebuild, not moving on from core sooner (basically in Wemby spot if we're this bad last yr), trading draft capital for fringe playoff pushes (ex. Thad Young)
  
  
• I'm actually really concerned he's going to let his emotions get the best of him and make a bunch of treadmill-ish moves to avoid another season like 2024, 15+ losing streaks, upsetting Scottie, not "winning" and makes panic moves etc.

He's the one who got us into this mess, hopefully he has the balls to see this team is DESPERATE FOR TALENT which probably means ATLEAST 1 more bleak season of losing (we need top tier prospects).

if Masai does the opposite (which I think is 100% a possibility) we will be on our way to basically a worse version of the Siakam/FVV teams (atleast those teams had OG).

Lets pray he accepts responsibility and what needs to be done.

the last 5 yrs has me worried.

I like that you give all the credit for the good decisions to others like "the scouting staff" but he wears all the bad decisions himself. Par for the course in this place.

Your post is wildly slanted and a quite frankly ridiculous take. He absolutely fleeced the Knicks in trades on both Denver and Toronto, drafted guys late who turned into excellent pros and that "BC core" he inherited was.nothing before he made the moves necessary to surround them with proper talent.

[ConSarnit]

Just to put things in perspective there has been a trend that has been happening in the NBA for the last few years. Fringe all-stars and all-stars on big contracts are perceived more as liabilities than assets. Unless a superstar is being moved you aren't getting the same amount of value. Teams caught with guys on max deals when they enter their 30s end up crippling themselves.

People crap on Masai about Lowry, Fred, Pascal, but those guys honestly were not worth what they were getting paid or soon to be paid.

Look at Chicago, you don't think they would have moved Derozan, Lavine or Vuc? They didn't because the value in the league for such a player is not that high.

The Trend moving forward is that teams cannot keep three superstars and if you sign the third guy to a max, you better be prepared to pay taxes through your nose and win a chip. Therefore the way to build a sustainable contender will be 2 max players and like 4-5 guys in the 15-20 million range, a few rookies and a few vets.

None of this changes that FVV walked for nothing when there were offers on the table, and Siakam was traded 1-2 years late. It's the FO's jobs to see these trends ahead of time and be proactive. You make it sound like we were smart for not re-signing FVV/Siakam. Masai tried to bring Fred back and failed, and had Fred successfully been brought back, the plan was to do the same with Siakam.

So you can say that they are not worth what they are getting paid, and I agree fully. But Masai was planning on paying them 30-35mil and 50ish a year. The exact prices that they are not worth, and as you stated, unable to build a sustainable contender.

So people are right to have crapped on them, cause they were about to make the exact mistake you're pointing out, had the Rockets not saved him.

We know the Fred offer, it was 1 first. I’m sure they would have taken it had they known FVV would walk but as has been stated before, they did not know a huge overpay offer was out there. At the time it was: re-sign FVV for $30m vs a single 1st. This is the same thing that happens for every player that hits free agency. The team has to weigh the return (a 1st) vs re-signing their own player. The Houston offer only materialized AFTER the trade deadline so, according to you, the front office should have known Houston was going to hire Udoka, who was then going to convince Houston to give up on Harden and pivot to a huge overpay of Fred.

Basically your argument is: “I can’t believe Masai didn’t literally predict the future”, which is a ridiculous assessment. You can criticize him for other things but not being able to foresee the Houston offer is not a valid criticism.

[Scase]

Just to put things in perspective there has been a trend that has been happening in the NBA for the last few years. Fringe all-stars and all-stars on big contracts are perceived more as liabilities than assets. Unless a superstar is being moved you aren't getting the same amount of value. Teams caught with guys on max deals when they enter their 30s end up crippling themselves.

People crap on Masai about Lowry, Fred, Pascal, but those guys honestly were not worth what they were getting paid or soon to be paid.

Look at Chicago, you don't think they would have moved Derozan, Lavine or Vuc? They didn't because the value in the league for such a player is not that high.

The Trend moving forward is that teams cannot keep three superstars and if you sign the third guy to a max, you better be prepared to pay taxes through your nose and win a chip. Therefore the way to build a sustainable contender will be 2 max players and like 4-5 guys in the 15-20 million range, a few rookies and a few vets.

None of this changes that FVV walked for nothing when there were offers on the table, and Siakam was traded 1-2 years late. It's the FO's jobs to see these trends ahead of time and be proactive. You make it sound like we were smart for not re-signing FVV/Siakam. Masai tried to bring Fred back and failed, and had Fred successfully been brought back, the plan was to do the same with Siakam.

So you can say that they are not worth what they are getting paid, and I agree fully. But Masai was planning on paying them 30-35mil and 50ish a year. The exact prices that they are not worth, and as you stated, unable to build a sustainable contender.

So people are right to have crapped on them, cause they were about to make the exact mistake you're pointing out, had the Rockets not saved him.

We know the Fred offer, it was 1 first. I’m sure they would have taken it had they known FVV would walk but as has been stated before, they did not know a huge overpay offer was out there. At the time it was: re-sign FVV for $30m vs a single 1st. This is the same thing that happens for every player that hits free agency. The team has to weigh the return (a 1st) vs re-signing their own player. The Houston offer only materialized AFTER the trade deadline so, according to you, the front office should have known Houston was going to hire Udoka, who was then going to convince Houston to give up on Harden and pivot to a huge overpay of Fred.

Basically your argument is: “I can’t believe Masai didn’t literally predict the future”, which is a ridiculous assessment. You can criticize him for other things but not being able to foresee the Houston offer is not a valid criticism.

That's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm basing my point off what TGM said about the trend of teams being unable to pay multiple players max and near max contracts and be contenders. There is zero blame on Masai for Houston coming out of nowhere with that offer. The blame is risking going to UFA, but I can't fault him for not expecting a max contract out of nowhere.

What I am faulting him for (again based of what TGM was saying), is that if the NBA is trending/showing that you cannot build a legitimate contender with 3 players on max/near max contracts, Masai going into that off season expecting to sign FVV to a 30-35mil contract, and having that be the first domino to paying Siakam a max contract, and then paying OG another 30-40mil contract, AND then having to worry about Scotties rookie max.

That's not a very good team, and it's a lot of money. And he seemingly planned to do that, it's a bad plan. Hence, the reason I mentioned Siakam being traded 1-2 years late. Sounds like you just misread what I was trying to say.

FVV should've been traded at the time period, FVV at 30-35mil is still not good for the team. Houston offer or not, we should have moved him IMO. Houston saved us from ourselves.

[Chandan]

Isn't it like half the GMs job to plan for the future?

To say we can't fault Masai for not being able to anticipate future scenarios is nonsense. He is not doing a good job predicting trends and what not.

[junot111]

Brilliant how you can get so close to the point, while completely missing it.

I'll let you marinate in that a bit, and maybe you can come out on the other side by figuring it out.

Brilliant how you disregard the point of my post to state the obvious and then act like you're smarter than thou

So good teams that can discover good role players to supplement their star players can make the playoffs? Do you have more shocking revelations to preach?

I'm still waiting for examples of how every other team has found a so called gem. We are in the same boat as most other teams that's not on TV right now. It's completely disingenuous to imply that this FO is the only one that's been ineffective.

I guess I have to spell it out for you .

Good teams, find good players in the late draft, undrafted players, and gems in trades. That's the thing you are seemingly missing here. They are good cause, cause they can find them. Bad teams, can't find them.

I don't care how ineffective the rest of the league has been, I'm not a fan of "the rest of the league". I'm a fan of the "highest paid executive in the NBA" team, and the expectation is to be better. Unless you think that Leon Rose and James Dolan are better execs than Masai? Cause they have seemingly built an entire team out of doing this.

You may not care, but the post I first replied to claimed that "literally every team has hit on a gem the last 5 years except us". Even if you don't take that literally, it's a gross exaggeration of this FO's performance relative to the rest of the league. I have reiterated that this is what I've been arguing against in every one of my follow up replies. So, let's acknowledge that while you've been insulting my intelligence for lack of alignment with your point, that you've been arguing a completely different point than me. Brilliant indeed.

Now let's address your point. While the ability to find diamond in the rough players is a trait of successful FOs, it's certainly not a 1:1 cause and effect. Doing so is as much about luck, opportunity and direction as it is about scouting/foresight. No team hits on late draft picks and bargain FA signings every year, no matter how shrewd their FO is. Outside of Barnes and Gradey, this team has been operating with late picks and above the cap exceptions every year. The biggest problem is with opportunity and direction and that is where there is a valid criticism. Trading away first round picks for Thad and Poeltl, and not moving away from Fred/Pascal earlier were mistakes, but all stemmed from the direction the FO chose to commit to that core for an extra season. Yes, that was a bad decision and it's been discussed to death already here. To lament on "missed gems" is just finding a new way to repeat the same criticisms. What difference would Josh Hart make on this roster? They've clearly changed course and have committed to a rebuild now, so let's see what they can do moving forward.

[Merit]

San Antonio is a small market, what was the advantage to the league there?

No idea. Marketing is bigger than just size. Toronto is pretty big but I wouldn't ever be confident that they would win the lottery in a draft considered to have an upper tier player like Victor.

I’d argue that it’s player development within an organization who’s been there/done that twice before (Duncan/Robinson).

[Merit]

Just to put things in perspective there has been a trend that has been happening in the NBA for the last few years. Fringe all-stars and all-stars on big contracts are perceived more as liabilities than assets. Unless a superstar is being moved you aren't getting the same amount of value. Teams caught with guys on max deals when they enter their 30s end up crippling themselves.

People crap on Masai about Lowry, Fred, Pascal, but those guys honestly were not worth what they were getting paid or soon to be paid.

Look at Chicago, you don't think they would have moved Derozan, Lavine or Vuc? They didn't because the value in the league for such a player is not that high.

The Trend moving forward is that teams cannot keep three superstars and if you sign the third guy to a max, you better be prepared to pay taxes through your nose and win a chip. Therefore the way to build a sustainable contender will be 2 max players and like 4-5 guys in the 15-20 million range, a few rookies and a few vets.

None of this changes that FVV walked for nothing when there were offers on the table, and Siakam was traded 1-2 years late. It's the FO's jobs to see these trends ahead of time and be proactive. You make it sound like we were smart for not re-signing FVV/Siakam. Masai tried to bring Fred back and failed, and had Fred successfully been brought back, the plan was to do the same with Siakam.

So you can say that they are not worth what they are getting paid, and I agree fully. But Masai was planning on paying them 30-35mil and 50ish a year. The exact prices that they are not worth, and as you stated, unable to build a sustainable contender.

So people are right to have crapped on them, cause they were about to make the exact mistake you're pointing out, had the Rockets not saved him.

We know the Fred offer, it was 1 first. I’m sure they would have taken it had they known FVV would walk but as has been stated before, they did not know a huge overpay offer was out there. At the time it was: re-sign FVV for $30m vs a single 1st. This is the same thing that happens for every player that hits free agency. The team has to weigh the return (a 1st) vs re-signing their own player. The Houston offer only materialized AFTER the trade deadline so, according to you, the front office should have known Houston was going to hire Udoka, who was then going to convince Houston to give up on Harden and pivot to a huge overpay of Fred.

Basically your argument is: “I can’t believe Masai didn’t literally predict the future”, which is a ridiculous assessment. You can criticize him for other things but not being able to foresee the Houston offer is not a valid criticism.

It’s tiring hearing the same thing over and over and over when the response (the timeline of Fred’s signing) has never changed. I wish Scase would stop trying to force a narrative that is objectively incorrect.

[Pointgod]

Isn't it like half the GMs job to plan for the future?

To say we can't fault Masai for not being able to anticipate future scenarios is nonsense. He is not doing a good job predicting trends and what not.

The better front offices can anticipate and in rare cases dictate where the league is trending. There are countless examples of GM’s and ownerships that dismantled playoff teams or contenders because they rightly realized that their teams were built to win it all. It takes guts to pull it off

[Merit]

Isn't it like half the GMs job to plan for the future?

To say we can't fault Masai for not being able to anticipate future scenarios is nonsense. He is not doing a good job predicting trends and what not.

The better front offices can anticipate and in rare cases dictate where the league is trending. There are countless examples of GM’s and ownerships that dismantled playoff teams or contenders because they rightly realized that their teams were built to win it all. It takes guts to pull it off

Pretty sure Masai was ahead of the curve with operation 69. I recall KD speaking about exactly this as well (everyone being roughly the same size with similar skills).

Sometimes people just get lucky. Steph Curry was almost an afterthought because of his ankle injuries early in his career.

Of course, you anticipate future scenarios and plan for them. Doesn't change that Fred's outrageous contract offer was highly unlikely and unexpected.

[Scase]

Brilliant how you disregard the point of my post to state the obvious and then act like you're smarter than thou

So good teams that can discover good role players to supplement their star players can make the playoffs? Do you have more shocking revelations to preach?

I'm still waiting for examples of how every other team has found a so called gem. We are in the same boat as most other teams that's not on TV right now. It's completely disingenuous to imply that this FO is the only one that's been ineffective.

I guess I have to spell it out for you .

Good teams, find good players in the late draft, undrafted players, and gems in trades. That's the thing you are seemingly missing here. They are good cause, cause they can find them. Bad teams, can't find them.

I don't care how ineffective the rest of the league has been, I'm not a fan of "the rest of the league". I'm a fan of the "highest paid executive in the NBA" team, and the expectation is to be better. Unless you think that Leon Rose and James Dolan are better execs than Masai? Cause they have seemingly built an entire team out of doing this.

You may not care, but the post I first replied to claimed that "literally every team has hit on a gem the last 5 years except us". Even if you don't take that literally, it's a gross exaggeration of this FO's performance relative to the rest of the league. I have reiterated that this is what I've been arguing against in every one of my follow up replies. So, let's acknowledge that while you've been insulting my intelligence for lack of alignment with your point, that you've been arguing a completely different point than me. Brilliant indeed.

Now let's address your point. While the ability to find diamond in the rough players is a trait of successful FOs, it's certainly not a 1:1 cause and effect. Doing so is as much about luck, opportunity and direction as it is about scouting/foresight. No team hits on late draft picks and bargain FA signings every year, no matter how shrewd their FO is. Outside of Barnes and Gradey, this team has been operating with late picks and above the cap exceptions every year. The biggest problem is with opportunity and direction and that is where there is a valid criticism. Trading away first round picks for Thad and Poeltl, and not moving away from Fred/Pascal earlier were mistakes, but all stemmed from the direction the FO chose to commit to that core for an extra season. Yes, that was a bad decision and it's been discussed to death already here. To lament on "missed gems" is just finding a new way to repeat the same criticisms. What difference would Josh Hart make on this roster? They've clearly changed course and have committed to a rebuild now, so let's see what they can do moving forward.

I cannot speak for another posters usage of the word literally. I was pointing out that suggesting it is some rare occurrence for a FO to find unearthed gems is absurd. I specifically pointed out playoff teams because they have had multiple instances of finding extremely productive players in trades, late 1st/2nd round picks, undrafted players, and UFAs.

You focus on hart and what difference he would make on the roster? That is beyond a simplistic view point. The specific player doesn't matter, hell our current roster and their fit doesn't even matter. The fact that we haven't found them at all, is what matters. What difference would Hart make? A 20mil/yr player who is able to show up as a very useful starter on a playoff team with FOUR more years on his contract, yeah how could that ever be useful.

Maybe I don't know, a trade chip to help the rebuild? I'm not insulting your intelligence for not aligning with my viewpoint. I'm taken aback by just nonsensical stuff like that. What difference does a highly productive player on a long term VERY valuable contract make, on this roster? Like seriously? I'm not even suggesting you're stupid, but that's an exceptionally dumb question/statement.

A valuable asset is just that, a valuable asset. The current phase that our team is in, is not relevant.

You want to talk about the FOs performance relative to the rest of the league? What is their performance to just playoff teams? Hint : It's really bad. I don't care what our performance is relative to the Wizards, or garbage teams. Masai is expected to be a great FO exec, so the standards get held to that. And we have not found a single player that has blossomed to contribute as a serious rostered player, since OG. Seven years ago.

I don't think I need to dig through 7 years of rosters for 29 different teams, to take a guess that the majority of them did better than that. Again, this is why I used a couple playoff teams. If multiple teams can manage to have 2-6 players on their roster that are WELL outperforming their salaries, draft positions, and value at acquisition. Then it stands to reason that 0% in 7 years, is pretty god damned bad.

Lastly, I don't care that they started the rebuild now. The rebuild is going to be harder, and a longer term thing to fix BECAUSE of not finding valuable players outside a top 5 or even a lotto pick. The FO doesn't get to be pat on the back a million times for how good they are at identifying talent and then when they become absolute dog water at it, turn around and say "Um yeah but, how bad is the rest of the league!".

Better go tell the Nuggets that it's ok they couldn't make it past the 2nd round after winning a chip, that it's ok, because 16 teams don't even make the playoffs. Don't worry guys, you're better, relative to half the league. Have some standards.

[Scase]

None of this changes that FVV walked for nothing when there were offers on the table, and Siakam was traded 1-2 years late. It's the FO's jobs to see these trends ahead of time and be proactive. You make it sound like we were smart for not re-signing FVV/Siakam. Masai tried to bring Fred back and failed, and had Fred successfully been brought back, the plan was to do the same with Siakam.

So you can say that they are not worth what they are getting paid, and I agree fully. But Masai was planning on paying them 30-35mil and 50ish a year. The exact prices that they are not worth, and as you stated, unable to build a sustainable contender.

So people are right to have crapped on them, cause they were about to make the exact mistake you're pointing out, had the Rockets not saved him.

We know the Fred offer, it was 1 first. I’m sure they would have taken it had they known FVV would walk but as has been stated before, they did not know a huge overpay offer was out there. At the time it was: re-sign FVV for $30m vs a single 1st. This is the same thing that happens for every player that hits free agency. The team has to weigh the return (a 1st) vs re-signing their own player. The Houston offer only materialized AFTER the trade deadline so, according to you, the front office should have known Houston was going to hire Udoka, who was then going to convince Houston to give up on Harden and pivot to a huge overpay of Fred.

Basically your argument is: “I can’t believe Masai didn’t literally predict the future”, which is a ridiculous assessment. You can criticize him for other things but not being able to foresee the Houston offer is not a valid criticism.

It’s tiring hearing the same thing over and over and over when the response (the timeline of Fred’s signing) has never changed. I wish Scase would stop trying to force a narrative that is objectively incorrect.

Then carry on with your day.

[ChillRelaxDude]

What I am faulting him for (again based of what TGM was saying), is that if the NBA is trending/showing that you cannot build a legitimate contender with 3 players on max/near max contracts, Masai going into that off season expecting to sign FVV to a 30-35mil contract, and having that be the first domino to paying Siakam a max contract, and then paying OG another 30-40mil contract, AND then having to worry about Scotties rookie max.

These weren't the comps when they decided to keep FVV over the TDL. Those are the comps from last off-season.

It was expected that FVV would receive a contract much like Brunson's and no one thought OG would get above $25 million until Portland signed Jerami Grant to that massive contract.

Also, the three-max contract issue came with the new apron rules. This year's champion will likely have four players making over 30 million per.

[DelAbbot]

Like I said before, I made a tank thread 2 yrs ago and it was locked and 3 out of 13 voted YES to tanking/rebuilding. And many said it was not probable or a good idea.

You can't execute a plan where your stakeholders, seat holders, staff and players don't agree with.

What exactly are you saying by pointing out you made a tank thread 2 years ago? You know you are talking to the staunchest supporters of the Tank World Order posters right?