Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[Pointgod]

Ideally you want to see your best player putting up massive numbers, especially if they’re not surrounded multiple 1st options. And you can kind of see the reason why if you watch games, Barnes’ doesn’t have a deep bag. Hopefully Barnes gets in the lab this offseason to improve his scoring

[tsherkin]

Iggy was basically RJ with elite athleticism and All NBA defense. He could have averaged 15 in his sleep on a mid-tier team if he only cared about jacking up shots.

He did have 4 straight seasons of 17+ ppg. His weak shooting held him back, and he was never going to be a high-end guy. He was alongside Iverson the first year. Then he was sharing with Dre Miller. Then it was Dre, Thad Young, 40% of an Elton Brand season and Lou Will off the bench. And then AI came back for his final season, Brand was healthier, Thad Young, and Lou Will.

So really, he DID average 15 on some bleh/crap teams as the second-ish option.

Ideally you want to see your best player putting up massive numbers, especially if they’re not surrounded multiple 1st options. And you can kind of see the reason why if you watch games, Barnes’ doesn’t have a deep bag. Hopefully Barnes gets in the lab this offseason to improve his scoring

I wouldn't be holding my breath for this.

[MEDIC]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.



Scott Hall and others who think Scottie is a bust or not worth the max or wouldn't start on a contender are delusional.

edit: and here is last season

These sort of lists are pretty pointless, why use 18-6-6 instead of 20-5-5? If we are doing 20-5-5, RJ makes the list and Scottie doesn't. Yet nobody on here has RJ has an untouchable franchise player and most people don't even think of him as a versatile all around type player.

RJ doesn't have all NBA defense potential.

[MEDIC]

Even taking this into consideration, Iggy became an allstar when he scaled DOWN his scoring and became a guy who focused everywhere else.

Iggy was an allstar in 2012 averaging 12/6/6 with LOCKDOWN defense, while he was getting no appreciation averaging 20/5/5... this might be the case with Scottie tbh.

Scottie even last year was never as good as Andre Iguodala ever was. Way too many holes in his game. I want everyone defending Scottie to compare year 4 Scottie with Year 4 Iggy. Iggy was a better player.

Iggy was basically RJ with elite athleticism and All NBA defense. He could have averaged 15 in his sleep on a mid-tier team if he only cared about jacking up shots.

That's what made him a championship calibre player. He was willing to focus on doing other valuable things at an elite level. Things that his contender needed. He wasn't obsessed with his scoring average. He was focused on winning.

[PushDaRock]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.



Scott Hall and others who think Scottie is a bust or not worth the max or wouldn't start on a contender are delusional.

edit: and here is last season

These sort of lists are pretty pointless, why use 18-6-6 instead of 20-5-5? If we are doing 20-5-5, RJ makes the list and Scottie doesn't. Yet nobody on here has RJ has an untouchable franchise player and most people don't even think of him as a versatile all around type player.

RJ doesn't have all NBA defense potential.

sure but the list is 18-6-6, defense seems to not be what is being discussed?

I mean also the fact that Jokic, Sabonis, Luka and Cade are on that list implies that right?

[TakeYourHeart]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.



Scott Hall and others who think Scottie is a bust or not worth the max or wouldn't start on a contender are delusional.

edit: and here is last season

The player he's closest to is Sabonis and on much worse efficiency. If you bring down the PPG because the efficiency is so bad, it is effectively a Ben Simmons statline. I like Ben btw but once upon a time such a comparison would be scorned, now it's being glorified.

[johanliebert]

Even taking this into consideration, Iggy became an allstar when he scaled DOWN his scoring and became a guy who focused everywhere else.

Iggy was an allstar in 2012 averaging 12/6/6 with LOCKDOWN defense, while he was getting no appreciation averaging 20/5/5... this might be the case with Scottie tbh.

Scottie even last year was never as good as Andre Iguodala ever was. Way too many holes in his game. I want everyone defending Scottie to compare year 4 Scottie with Year 4 Iggy. Iggy was a better player.

Iggy was basically RJ with elite athleticism and All NBA defense. He could have averaged 15 in his sleep on a mid-tier team if he only cared about jacking up shots.

Lol and if he was an elite shooter he’d be klay right?

Iggy and RJ have different skillsets.

[Scott Hall]

Again....same issue that people have when evaluating Scottie. People focus too much on scoring..

Teams can win a championship because of a players ability to lock down on defense. Is defense recognized recognized enough in todays NBA? Definitely not. The NBA is sometimes more about sensationalism than it is about basketball.

He's being paid Max money and the team keeps hyping him up as "the face of the league" and calling him a
'"franchise player" etc so management itself is the one to blame for hyping him up with unrealistic expectations.

Everybody knows he's a great defender who's extremely versatile and stuffs the stat sheet but not averaging
20 ppg on horrible efficiency is completely unacceptable if he's gonna have those expectations and be paid
Max money there's no sugar coating it.

Please name the players in the nba who stuff the stat sheet and average over 20 points a game on great efficiency.

Why?

[ATLTimekeeper]

We seem to have gone full circle from Siakam holding him back to now people wanting him back in the offensive role Nurse had him in lol

Don't worry, Masai still thinks he doesn't look as good because he tries to do too much and his teammates aren't smart enough. Masai has 'my kid is gifted' syndrome with Scottie. I remember when the tide had turned on BC and one of his teams was failing while he was on the broadcast, he kept repeating 'we lack... attention to detail.'

Anyway, let's hope the lottery balls bounce our way.

[brownbobcat]

Even taking this into consideration, Iggy became an allstar when he scaled DOWN his scoring and became a guy who focused everywhere else.

Iggy was an allstar in 2012 averaging 12/6/6 with LOCKDOWN defense, while he was getting no appreciation averaging 20/5/5... this might be the case with Scottie tbh.

Scottie even last year was never as good as Andre Iguodala ever was. Way too many holes in his game. I want everyone defending Scottie to compare year 4 Scottie with Year 4 Iggy. Iggy was a better player.

Iggy was basically RJ with elite athleticism and All NBA defense. He could have averaged 15 in his sleep on a mid-tier team if he only cared about jacking up shots.

Lol and if he was an elite shooter he’d be klay right?

Iggy and RJ have different skillsets.

Of course, I'm just making the point of how much better Iggy actually was. He could do what RJ is doing far easier than the other way around.

[tsherkin]

Of course, I'm just making the point of how much better Iggy actually was. He could do what RJ is doing far easier than the other way around.

Yes and no. Iggy would have his own value, because of course he was a much better defender. But he also wasn't a particularly good scorer, and could have benefited (much as RJ) from real playmakers and spacing. So I don't know how much "far easier" is accurate when discussing replicating what RJ does or vice versa.

[mulamutti]

I'll be honest, i never, saw him as more than a Vince Carter level player. i.e. crazy talent, doesn't seem to have the win-at-all-costs, and lead the team mentality that the top-10 players in the league have. Basically top 10 type talent, but more like 20-30 level player. So if he leads the raptors, he will lead them to 1st round victories, maybe an odd 2nd round. He can be the second best player in an elite team, but he needs a batman.

I see all the Siakam references but don't fully agree. Siakam is not as talented as Barnes, and worked his a$$ off to maximize his abilities. Sort of like DeRozan. Barnes is more like vince carter, top 10 talent, but not the killer mentality and work ethic to maximize his talents.

[brownbobcat]

Of course, I'm just making the point of how much better Iggy actually was. He could do what RJ is doing far easier than the other way around.

Yes and no. Iggy would have his own value, because of course he was a much better defender. But he also wasn't a particularly good scorer, and could have benefited (much as RJ) from real playmakers and spacing. So I don't know how much "far easier" is accurate when discussing replicating what RJ does or vice versa.

RJ is not a particularly good scorer, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything he does much better than Iggy.

[tsherkin]

RJ is not a particularly good scorer, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything he does much better than Iggy.

Alongside Scottie, he generally looks better than peak Iggy, as it happens.

[XTC]

I'll be honest, i never, saw him as more than a Vince Carter level player. i.e. crazy talent, doesn't seem to have the win-at-all-costs, and lead the team mentality that the top-10 players in the league have. Basically top 10 type talent, but more like 20-30 level player. So if he leads the raptors, he will lead them to 1st round victories, maybe an odd 2nd round. He can be the second best player in an elite team, but he needs a batman.

I see all the Siakam references but don't fully agree. Siakam is not as talented as Barnes, and worked his a$$ off to maximize his abilities. Sort of like DeRozan. Barnes is more like vince carter, top 10 talent, but not the killer mentality and work ethic to maximize his talents.

You're talking as if Barnes is this hugely talented star player who can turn it on with a switch. This isn't a VC situation at all, who was a legit top 5 talent at the times. Barnes is more like if you took Andre Iguodala and asked him to be your franchise player.

Also put some respect on Siakams name, bro was All NBA by year 4. If Barnes ever got to that level we would be jumping for joy.

[XTC]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.



Scott Hall and others who think Scottie is a bust or not worth the max or wouldn't start on a contender are delusional.

edit: and here is last season

Make a list of players averaging 20/5/5... because 20/5/5 > 18/6/6. Does Scottie make that list? Scottie's assists are dropping fast BTW he's down to exactly 6.0 APG, and hes been averaging 4.9 APG his last 18 games... are we gonna then make a list of players averaging 18/6/5?

Can we also have a list of allstars who have a TS of 53.0% or worst?

Your list honest reminds me of this

[ConSarnit]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.

So, backing up for a second, but once again, how are we in 2025 and still using raw box score numbers as a sole source of evaluation for a player? This is an arbitrary filter which ignores efficiency and overall offensive impact.

Here’s another arbitrary stat for those who are quoting box scores:

There are 55 NBA “rotation” players who have >25% usage.

Only Kevin Porter Jr and Dejounte Murray have a worse TS% than Barnes.

18ppg is not impressive when you have a 52.3 TS%. The box score quoters don’t realize how damaging having 25% of your scoring come at that efficiency is. There are probably 200 players in the league who could score 18ppg if the efficiency bar was that low.

Barnes is one of the worst scorers in the league averaging >15ppg this season. His scoring is flat out terrible this year. It’s made even worse by the fact that he’s not even putting up volume scoring.

[ConSarnit]

These are the players averaging 18/6/6 this season. This is it. This is the list.



Scott Hall and others who think Scottie is a bust or not worth the max or wouldn't start on a contender are delusional.

edit: and here is last season

Make a list of players averaging 20/5/5... because 20/5/5 > 18/6/6. Does Scottie make that list? Scottie's assists are dropping fast BTW he's down to exactly 6.0 APG, and hes been averaging 4.9 APG his last 18 games... are we gonna then make a list of players averaging 18/6/5?

Can we also have a list of allstars who have a TS of 53.0% or worst?

Your list honest reminds me of this

I can give you the list:

Barnes

Dejounte Murray (who was having a disastrous season before he got injured)

That’s where Barnes ranks as a scorer this season: just above disastrous.

[brownbobcat]

RJ is not a particularly good scorer, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything he does much better than Iggy.

Alongside Scottie, he generally looks better than peak Iggy, as it happens.

We'll never know of course, but I just don't see it. If you told 25-yr old Iggy to cut out the long 2s, he'd be just as good offensively. Better-or-equal ball handler, better in transition, better-or-equal passer, similar shooter, better-or-equal shot creation

[tsherkin]

18ppg is not impressive when you have a 52.3 TS%. The box score quoters don’t realize how damaging having 25% of your scoring come at that efficiency is. There are probably 200 players in the league who could score 18ppg if the efficiency bar was that low.

Barnes is one of the worst scorers in the league averaging >15ppg this season. His scoring is flat out terrible this year. It’s made even worse by the fact that he’s not even putting up volume scoring.

Yep, that encapsulates it nicely.