How is this not a super Mid plan? what's the pitch on our direction

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, some of us having been saying all of this for years, they're betting everything on Ingram's questionable health record now because they are desperate. Since the title the Raptors have made the playoffs twice in 6 years and won a single playoff round, and that was with good chunks of title team still mostly intact back in 2020. That's a poor record for any highly paid executive that is looking for a new contract like Masai and Bobby are, there's immense pressure on them to get this team back into the playoffs and show things are moving forward in a positive direction.

They aren’t betting EVERYTHING. They got him for Nickles on the dollar.

We have so many more chips to play it’s not even funny.

We have the salaries and picks to go after a star player if one comes up. We have solid financial flexibility to pivot to pretty much anything if we want.

If this team goes tits up we can trade everyone in 12 months and have one of the best draft pick war-chests in the league when we’re done.

The idea we’ve bet anything outside some late 1sts is wild

[TheRealDeal]

Yeah, some of us having been saying all of this for years, they're betting everything on Ingram's questionable health record now because they are desperate. Since the title the Raptors have made the playoffs twice in 6 years and won a single playoff round, and that was with good chunks of title team still mostly intact back in 2020. That's a poor record for any highly paid executive that is looking for a new contract like Masai and Bobby are, there's immense pressure on them to get this team back into the playoffs and show things are moving forward in a positive direction.

They aren’t betting EVERYTHING. They got him for Nickles on the dollar.

We have so many more chips to play it’s not even funny.

We have the salaries and picks to go after a star player if one comes up. We have solid financial flexibility to pivot to pretty much anything if we want.

If this team goes tits up we can trade everyone in 12 months and have one of the best draft pick war-chests in the league when we’re done.

The idea we’ve bet anything outside some late 1sts is wild

Yeah we’ve done a solid job of stacking assets. We’re finally going to have some solid depth next year. I’m excited to see what kind of trades our FO can cook up with more at their disposal

[Los_29]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

[Ell Curry]

Things are definitely real mid.

Unless we draft a star or someone shockingly becomes one, it's really hard to see how we build an offence that doesn't immediately fall apart in the playoffs, even if it's somehow passable during the regular season.

Memphis at #6, Sacramento at #7 and Houston at #13 were the only good offences without a great offensive player as the basis of their offence, and Sacramento in particular basically gave up on defence (apart from starting to play Ellis) to get there, largely surrounding Sabonis with scorers who aren't good on defence. And Houston and Memphis fell apart on O (they played OKC, yes but they finished 6 ORTG worse than Denver did against OKC and 13 ORTG worse than Minnesota did). I doubt Sacramento would have done much better.

I think there's a path to us being really good on defence (particularly if we moved 1 of Dick or Barrett for a backup 5 and don't draft another bad defender) and winning some games if Ingram is healthy (I'm not a fan, but he helps the floor of the O a fair bit when he's actually on the court) so we might win 40+ games this year or next. East would help, maybe Giannis even goes west.

Barring a Giannis trade, or drafting the next SGA/Booker/Mitchell/Haliburton star guard that is available in the low teens, we're probably not going anywhere. If we did hit on one of those guys, suddenly we're in good shape with depth and frontcourt talent. Similarly, hitting on the next Lowry or Brunson (which I think Quickley is supposed to be) late bloomer star guard would make us good again immediately.

Good news is I guess that we haven't traded any future picks, we can always tank, and we do have the front office that drafted Siakam and OG in the 20s, so it's not crazy to think we can draft our way out of this mess in time, even without being a 20 win Wizards-esque tank. But overall, we're in the Bulls/Kings/Pelicans zone right now where winning 2 or 3 playoff games is probably the ceiling.

[ash_k]

Our starting 5 has a 2nd pick, 3rd pick and 4th pick; and 2 of them are not even 25 yet and all of them have averaged 20pts. Young bench with Shead, Jakobe, Ochai and Gradey(a chance of being special at some point). Add Battle in there
So much talent, so much room to grow on this team that I just don't get all the pessimistic perspectives here. Masai and Bobby have done their job.
Darko may not be able to maximize all that. But being his year3, Masai could justify firing him if we start slowly and get us the son of our first NBA head coach.

[Tripod]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

Yeah 2 years ago Indy was a 35 win team...a win total we easily eclipse this year if we tried to win games vs tried to lose playing gleaguers and 10 days.

And that doesn't include how bad of health we had this year which add on more wins. And now we are adding BI and #9.

Indy went from 35 wins to 47 last year. We should be a 45-48 win team next year imo and honestly will be disappointed if we are below that....assuming reasonably good health and adding a backup C.

And we still have this offseason to make moves. Let's see what happens.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

We are building a deep team instead of going the star route which is smart. Look at the teams with stars like Giannis, Durant, 76ers etc.. allocating too much money to 1 or 2 players with nothing else is a recipe for disaster in 2025.

[Pointgod]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

New York finished 11th in the East the season before they added Jalen Brunson for free and finished 6th the following season.

Pacers finished 11th in the East their first full season with Haliburton, but he only played 56 games. The next season Haliburton played 69 games and got Pascal for free for 44 games and finished 6th in the East despite losing Buddy Hield from the previous season.

Right now you can’t compare us to the Pacers or Knicks because we’re not adding a player that’s as good as Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Haliburton to our existing team that finished 11th in the East. Brandon Ingram will make us better but he’s not on the level of either of these guys so the comparison is not one for one.

[PushDaRock]

Again, I don't see how it's overly negative to say, the team will be better short term, but I see no path to long term success, if that is considered too negative, then there is no interest in actual discourse, just people glossing over anything that isn't rainbows and sunshine.

I think we all know that we're not on a path to title contention at the moment. But we shouldn't be looking at that right now anyway. We should be looking at how to be a decent team, and how to improve from there before we worry about summitting the mountain again. Almost 40% of the league doesn't have a title yet (though OKC seems poised to alter that a bit), and we do. Worrying about another title right now escapes the percentage odds of winning in this league. We need to be focusing on small steps first.

Agreed, and nothing about what you said runs counter to what I've been saying, better now, with nothing to indicate better long term. Again, this thread was asking what's the plan, the current plan is just "be better", which considering the last 2 seasons were 25 and 30 wins respectively, that's a low bar.

So yeah, I'm not saying anything different than that, I'm just not glazing the team for nothing.

There's many people who are neither glazing the team or whining about it incessantly either. It is possible to have a more neutral and somewhat optimistic view of things.

[Tacoma]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

New York finished 11th in the East the season before they added Jalen Brunson for free and finished 6th the following season.

Pacers finished 11th in the East their first full season with Haliburton, but he only played 56 games. The next season Haliburton played 69 games and got Pascal for free for 44 games and finished 6th in the East despite losing Buddy Hield from the previous season.

Right now you can’t compare us to the Pacers or Knicks because we’re not adding a player that’s as good as Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Haliburton to our existing team that finished 11th in the East. Brandon Ingram will make us better but he’s not on the level of either of these guys so the comparison is not one for one.

Agree with the sentiments in your post. That said, I think the optimists on this board are counting on BI to have a 2nd breakout season (he won MIP in 2020) of his career at 28 and also make an All NBA team (which Hali and Brunson both did) and also remain mostly injury-free; and also have at least two of BBQ to have breakout years with one of them also becoming an All Star (like Pascal did for IND) and All-NBA (like KAT did for NYK).

If all of these happen, then yes, Los_29's comparison to IND and NYK makes sense. Will it happen? It may take something short of a miracle, but when your plan is mid-level (topic of this thread), then a miracle must be part of that plan.

[youngRAPZ]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

New York finished 11th in the East the season before they added Jalen Brunson for free and finished 6th the following season.

Pacers finished 11th in the East their first full season with Haliburton, but he only played 56 games. The next season Haliburton played 69 games and got Pascal for free for 44 games and finished 6th in the East despite losing Buddy Hield from the previous season.

Right now you can’t compare us to the Pacers or Knicks because we’re not adding a player that’s as good as Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Haliburton to our existing team that finished 11th in the East. Brandon Ingram will make us better but he’s not on the level of either of these guys so the comparison is not one for one.

You sky is falling people are so funny. You all shat on Pascal and still say we took too long to trade him but now because he has Indiana going to the finals he’s some beast player that Ingram can’t even sniff. I still remember much of this board trashing D Mitchell and saying he doesn’t move the needle. The only thing that is FACT in this thread is none of us know anything and your “OPINION” isn’t a “FACT”.

Convinced you people just love to hear yourself complain. This is the exact same thread that was already created with the same question “What’s the plan” when you don’t really care what the plan is you just want to repeat the same complaints from the last 2 seasons.

[Son Goku 25]

IQ vs Hali
RJ vs Nembhard
BI vs Nesmith
Scottie vs Pascal (Pascal cannot guard Scottie, like OG cant guard Pascal)
Yak vs Turner

And are you overwhelmed by the Pacers bench?
Toppin (Boucher/Mogbo)
Bradley
T.J. (Shead)
Mathurin (Gradey)
Sheppard (JaKobe)
Still nothing to declare with Jarace Walker, the prospect everybody wanted for Pascal but only the end of year 2 (our 9th pick)

it comes down to the coaching and finding out if our players can raise their game in the playoffs like a Nembhard. We need to know ASAP as I have had my doubts about IQ.

The thing is Halis playmaking and pass first mentality is what gives everyone on that team an extra kick. Gives them an ease of mind that they will get the ball and shots. So they are willing to play hard and move the ball knowing they will get it back if they are open. I just don't see anyone on the team that can do that. Barnes possibly but his play making is not on that level.

Its why i feel like we might go after a Demin, Traore, Jak, Fears etc

[Badonkadonk]

How do people still ask this question after seeing how things can dramatically change from one season to the next, ESPECIALLY given they're presumably Raptors fans and were around in 2018.

The "direction" and "plan" discourse is just so meaningless.

[youngRAPZ]

How do people still ask this question after seeing how things can dramatically change from one season to the next, ESPECIALLY given they're presumably Raptors fans and were around in 2018.

The "direction" and "plan" discourse is just so meaningless.

They ask the question not because they generally want to know. They know what the plan is. They just want to complain and cry some more about stuff that already happened and can’t be changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ishoy123]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

New York finished 11th in the East the season before they added Jalen Brunson for free and finished 6th the following season.

Pacers finished 11th in the East their first full season with Haliburton, but he only played 56 games. The next season Haliburton played 69 games and got Pascal for free for 44 games and finished 6th in the East despite losing Buddy Hield from the previous season.

Right now you can’t compare us to the Pacers or Knicks because we’re not adding a player that’s as good as Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Haliburton to our existing team that finished 11th in the East. Brandon Ingram will make us better but he’s not on the level of either of these guys so the comparison is not one for one.

The Knicks were unanimously viewed as overpaying Brunson and a surefire move into mediocrity at the time of the deal

[ConSarnit]

Funny, they were saying the same thing about Indiana and New York. Look at them now.

New York finished 11th in the East the season before they added Jalen Brunson for free and finished 6th the following season.

Pacers finished 11th in the East their first full season with Haliburton, but he only played 56 games. The next season Haliburton played 69 games and got Pascal for free for 44 games and finished 6th in the East despite losing Buddy Hield from the previous season.

Right now you can’t compare us to the Pacers or Knicks because we’re not adding a player that’s as good as Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Haliburton to our existing team that finished 11th in the East. Brandon Ingram will make us better but he’s not on the level of either of these guys so the comparison is not one for one.

The Knicks were unanimously viewed as overpaying Brunson and a surefire move into mediocrity at the time of the deal

How are the Knicks any type of comp for us? They acquired their best player in free agency.

The best free agent the Raptors have ever signed is Dennis Schroder. We have 30 years of evidence that free agency is not an option for us.

Tell me we can make a Haliburton type move and I’ll say “maybe, it’s a long shot but maybe”. Tell me we’ll sign a free agent who becomes a top 10 player in the league and I’ll ask you “did you just start following the Raptors?”

[ConSarnit]

How do people still ask this question after seeing how things can dramatically change from one season to the next, ESPECIALLY given they're presumably Raptors fans and were around in 2018.

The "direction" and "plan" discourse is just so meaningless.

Counter: if we’re relying on another Kawhi like deal to save us we’re going to be waiting for a while. That was a one off deal in NBA history. That doesn’t even consider that the price for stars has gone way up since then and we are not at the top of the list when it comes to assets as a team laying in wait to acquire a star.

For the most part there was an equal footing amongst teams in 2018 when it came to trade assets. That no longer exists when you have teams that have multiple surplus 1sts (which we do not) waiting to make a big move.

If the plan is “make a big trade” we have been saving up to make a 2018 trade, not a 2025 trade. That is the issue with the current plan.

[tsherkin]

Counter: if we’re relying on another Kawhi like deal to save us we’re going to be waiting for a while.

Of course we're going to be waiting for a while before we have a chance at another title. Like 36% of the league doesn't even have ONE, and most of the titles in the past 45 years have been won by Boston, Chicago, LA, San Antonio and Golden State.

Our plan now has to be "get better, accumulate assets, and see what happens." That's it. No big, deeply-projected anything. Just try not to suck ass for a while and breathe in some seasons over .500 for a while, maybe some playoff appearances, possibly a playoff series victory or two.

I think some are forgetting exactly how much luck goes into developing a team which can authentically contend for a title, let alone actually win one. We need to take a step out of the crapper before we can worry about anything else. And then trades and draft and who knows what'll happen?

[GLF]

Counter: if we’re relying on another Kawhi like deal to save us we’re going to be waiting for a while.

Of course we're going to be waiting for a while before we have a chance at another title. Like 36% of the league doesn't even have ONE, and most of the titles in the past 45 years have been won by Boston, Chicago, LA, San Antonio and Golden State.

Our plan now has to be "get better, accumulate assets, and see what happens." That's it. No big, deeply-projected anything. Just try not to suck ass for a while and breathe in some seasons over .500 for a while, maybe some playoff appearances, possibly a playoff series victory or two.

I think some are forgetting exactly how much luck goes into developing a team which can authentically contend for a title, let alone actually win one. We need to take a step out of the crapper before we can worry about anything else. And then trades and draft and who knows what'll happen?

I also think people act like the likelihood of getting a Wemby or LeBron or even Flagg in the draft is high. Even if you tank you’re not guaranteed to get a guy like that. Even less so now with the flattened odds. And there are many drafts that do not produce players on that level at all even if you get the number one pick. With the way stars are forever asking out these days there’s probably a higher percentage chance of us trading for a star if we accumulate the assets needed than drafting a top 5-10 player.

[ConSarnit]

Counter: if we’re relying on another Kawhi like deal to save us we’re going to be waiting for a while.

Of course we're going to be waiting for a while before we have a chance at another title. Like 36% of the league doesn't even have ONE, and most of the titles in the past 45 years have been won by Boston, Chicago, LA, San Antonio and Golden State.

Our plan now has to be "get better, accumulate assets, and see what happens." That's it. No big, deeply-projected anything. Just try not to suck ass for a while and breathe in some seasons over .500 for a while, maybe some playoff appearances, possibly a playoff series victory or two.

I think some are forgetting exactly how much luck goes into developing a team which can authentically contend for a title, let alone actually win one. We need to take a step out of the crapper before we can worry about anything else. And then trades and draft and who knows what'll happen?

“Maybe some playoff appearances” as a plan sounds terrible. We are the Bulls now? Puke.

Obviously luck is involved. We have done nothing to improve our luck over the past few seasons. If had told you we’ve missed the playoffs 3 years in a row and all we have to show for it in terms of draft outcomes was Gradey Dick and the 9th pick this year you’d say “what the hell happened?” We have done ourselves very few favors if we are trying to build a real team. We’ve forgone the chance at high lotto picks and we’ve not accumulated any surplus draft assets. If the plan was build thought the draft, prepared for future trades or both we’ve not done ourselves any favors.

If we were any other team we’d all be asking “what are they doing?”