[Shams] Masai Ujiri is out as Vice Chairman and President of the Toronto Raptors - Part 2

[Raps in 4]

The only track record we have on Ed Rogers' sports teams is his hiring of Shapiro with the Blue Jays (who was both highly sought after and well respected leaguewide at the time they got him). That's very little to go on.

He was neither sought after nor respected. He was known as a penny-pinching executive with experience renovating a stadium. Cleveland was one of the most mediocre franchises in baseball under his leadership. Cleveland fans were celebrating his departure.

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

[Randle McMurphy]

He was neither sought after nor respected. He was known as a penny-pinching executive with experience renovating a stadium. Cleveland was one of the most mediocre franchises in baseball under his leadership. Cleveland fans were celebrating his departure.

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

All lies. Shapiro's reputation was strong in baseball at the time of his hiring, he was a sought after executive, and Cleveland was run far better than the Jays were (and may other teams) during Shapiro's tenure (2001-2015).

It's revisionist history to suggest differently.

[Randle McMurphy]

You guys are really overthinking this lol.

Ed Rogers wanted Masai out two years after he won the championship and even went to Silver. This was happening no matter what. Rogers did not like that he was paid so much and most likely how popular he was here. A similar personality in Tim Leiweke was also basically driven out and any success the Leafs, Raptors and TFC had was all directly linked back to him. Masai was the last piece of that.

You're blaming Ed Rogers for Tim Leiweke leaving MLSE almost 11 years ago? Before Ed even took full control of Rogers and Rogers didn't have majority control of the MLSE board?

Leiweke wasn't driven out of anything. From all reports, he left because his wife wanted to move back to the US. He'd almost certainly still have his job at MLSE if he wanted to be here.

We're only a few weeks from hearing that Ed was at fault for every bad move that Masai made over the last 5 years too, I expect.

Nope, literally just now lol

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

Turned out it was only a few minutes, not a few weeks.

[Raps in 4]

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

All lies. Shapiro's reputation was strong in baseball at the time of his hiring, he was a sought after executive, and Cleveland was run far better than the Jays were (and may other teams) during Shapiro's tenure (2001-2015).

It's revisionist history to suggest differently.

From 2001 to 2015, the Guardians made the playoffs 3 times. One of those times (in 2001) was with an inherited team that won 90 games the year prior.

If you consider 3 playoff appearances (really, just 2) over 15 years, in a weak division, to be an impressive feat, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if we give him credit for 2016-2019, that's still a lacklustre resume for a nearly twenty year period.

[Los_29]

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

All lies. Shapiro's reputation was strong in baseball at the time of his hiring, he was a sought after executive, and Cleveland was run far better than the Jays were (and may other teams) during Shapiro's tenure (2001-2015).

It's revisionist history to suggest differently.

From 2001 to 2015, the Guardians made the playoffs 3 times. One of those times (in 2001) was with an inherited team that won 90 games the year prior.

If you consider 3 playoff appearances (really, just 2) over 15 years, in a weak division, to be an impressive feat, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if we give him credit for 2016-2019, that's still a lacklustre resume for a nearly twenty year period.

Didn’t they have a super low payroll? It’s pretty impressive given the lack of resources they had. If you compare it to AA, AA had a much bigger payroll, went all in and depleted our farm system. How many playoff appearances did he have with us?

Atkins is another story though.

[Raps in 4]

All lies. Shapiro's reputation was strong in baseball at the time of his hiring, he was a sought after executive, and Cleveland was run far better than the Jays were (and may other teams) during Shapiro's tenure (2001-2015).

It's revisionist history to suggest differently.

From 2001 to 2015, the Guardians made the playoffs 3 times. One of those times (in 2001) was with an inherited team that won 90 games the year prior.

If you consider 3 playoff appearances (really, just 2) over 15 years, in a weak division, to be an impressive feat, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if we give him credit for 2016-2019, that's still a lacklustre resume for a nearly twenty year period.

Didn’t they have a super low payroll? It’s pretty impressive given the lack of resources they had. If you compare it to AA, AA had a much bigger payroll, went all in and depleted our farm system. How many playoff appearances did he have with us?

Atkins is another story though.

It's not impressive at all. The AL Central is a low spending division.

Over the past 15 years, the Rays have made the playoffs 8 times and the Orioles 5 times, in a much tougher division. Both of those teams operate on shoestring budgets.

Shapiro's biggest weaknesses have always been scouting and player development, which should be your biggest strengths when managing a low payroll team.

[Lord_Zedd]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

[Lord_Zedd]

Shapiro is now working with a top 5 payroll, and still has nothing to show for.

How the hell is that still defensible and not a massive incompetence

[God Squad]

I'm still sad.

[metafisical]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

As a tWo, i don't want an indefinite rebuild. I just want a pivot to a tank when the team isn't successful.

A lot of tWo critics often claim, "OMG! tWo would have traded away DD/Lowry during Lebronto!". Uhhh... no? We were contenders then. Why break up a contending team unless there was a trade that was absolutely necessary (e.g., Kawhi trade)?

So if there are win-now trades that will help us to become contenders this coming season, I'm all for it. If we are stuck from 7th to 11th for a few seasons and not clearly getting better, am I favourable to a tank? Of course. Multi-year? If need be.

[OakleyDokely]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

As a tWo, i don't want an indefinite rebuild. I just want a pivot to a tank when the team isn't successful.

A lot of tWo critics often claim, "OMG! tWo would have traded away DD/Lowry during Lebronto!". Uhhh... no? We were contenders then. Why break up a contending team unless there was a trade that was absolutely necessary (e.g., Kawhi trade)?

So if there are win-now trades that will help us to become contenders this coming season, I'm all for it. If we are stuck from 7th to 11th for a few seasons and not clearly getting better, am I favourable to a tank? Of course. Multi-year? If need be.

Not saying you were one, but there definitely was a loud minority on this board who wanted the Raps to pivot to a rebuild after last CLE disaster.

[Michael Bradley]

He was neither sought after nor respected. He was known as a penny-pinching executive with experience renovating a stadium. Cleveland was one of the most mediocre franchises in baseball under his leadership. Cleveland fans were celebrating his departure.

None of those sentences are true at all and it’s really not all that necessary to revise history in order to trash Shapiro.

It was reported at the time that the Jays were looking at Shapiro, Dan Duquette and Ken Williams for the position and Shapiro was the most respected of that group at that time (and certainly considered the most analytically inclined).

Here is the initial reaction to Shapiro being brought up (the first thing you’ll notice is the overwhelming praise for the idea from this fanbase, the next thing you’ll notice is my prediction that AA would not be down with him): viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1404510

All of those sentences are true. Shapiro led a team in the pathetic AL Central to over a decade of mediocrity before we "poached" him. He was always a **** baseball executives. Being analytically-inclined means **** all if you aren't getting results.

His mediocre resume predictably translated to a decade of mediocrity in Toronto.

It's okay to criticize Masai for being bad the last four years because he objectively was, but Shapiro has spent most of his twenty-five year career mismanaging sports teams.

Shapiro inherited an old team with a one year window and no prospects in the upper minors (Vlad was 16 years old) and yet if the Jays make the playoffs this season (currently holding a spot) then they would have been a playoff team in half of Shapiro's time here. In baseball, that's not a mediocre run. Are they a mediocre front office? That's a more reasonable take, but results-wise, that hasn't been the case.

[DelAbbot]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

Let me make one thing clear

Randle McMurphy is not TWO. He does not represent TWO. TWO has nothing to do with Randle McMurphy who makes outrageous claims about performance of Toronto sports team FO's and Ed Rogers.

[WuTang_CMB]

Grange spoke on it this morning

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-fan-morning-show/id1483242860?i=1000715133665

[PushDaRock]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

Let me make one thing clear

Randle McMurphy is not TWO. He does not represent TWO. TWO has nothing to do with Randle McMurphy who makes outrageous claims about performance of Toronto sports team FO's and Ed Rogers.

Agreed, he does not represent us. We denounce these claims and will make further comment at the appropriate time.

[ForeverTFC]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

As a tWo, i don't want an indefinite rebuild. I just want a pivot to a tank when the team isn't successful.

A lot of tWo critics often claim, "OMG! tWo would have traded away DD/Lowry during Lebronto!". Uhhh... no? We were contenders then. Why break up a contending team unless there was a trade that was absolutely necessary (e.g., Kawhi trade)?

So if there are win-now trades that will help us to become contenders this coming season, I'm all for it. If we are stuck from 7th to 11th for a few seasons and not clearly getting better, am I favourable to a tank? Of course. Multi-year? If need be.

The bolded was actually a thing tWo wanted during that time. There is a reason why a lot of long time posters on this board hate everything about it. With that said, I haven't seen many REAL tWo people celebrating this and many are pretty down on what seems to be happening. There were two groups - tWo and Masai haters - who were in a marriage of convenience for the last couple of years. Last weekend has exposed who's who for everyone to see.

Oh and I guess Scase is in his own group, because at this point I have no idea what that guy is about anymore.

[Randle McMurphy]

Looks like Rogers didn't let Masai do his job. Put pressure on him to compete and make win-now moves.

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

Let me make one thing clear

Randle McMurphy is not TWO. He does not represent TWO. TWO has nothing to do with Randle McMurphy who makes outrageous claims about performance of Toronto sports team FO's and Ed Rogers.

This reads like one of those disclaimers advertisers put at the bottom of commercials. Can they really be trusted?

[WuTang_CMB]

“Were so happy to have u” to cmb
This guy knew he was getting fired and put on a poker face.
Bullshyt

[Scase]

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

As a tWo, i don't want an indefinite rebuild. I just want a pivot to a tank when the team isn't successful.

A lot of tWo critics often claim, "OMG! tWo would have traded away DD/Lowry during Lebronto!". Uhhh... no? We were contenders then. Why break up a contending team unless there was a trade that was absolutely necessary (e.g., Kawhi trade)?

So if there are win-now trades that will help us to become contenders this coming season, I'm all for it. If we are stuck from 7th to 11th for a few seasons and not clearly getting better, am I favourable to a tank? Of course. Multi-year? If need be.

The bolded was actually a thing tWo wanted during that time. There is a reason why a lot of long time posters on this board hate everything about it. With that said, I haven't seen many REAL tWo people celebrating this and many are pretty down on what seems to be happening. There were two groups - tWo and Masai haters - who were in a marriage of convenience for the last couple of years. Last weekend has exposed who's who for everyone to see.

Oh and I guess Scase is in his own group, because at this point I have no idea what that guy is about anymore.

I'm an agent of chaos

But if we're talking about the DD/KL lebronto era, my stance back then was always get rid of Casey and get rid of DD. The crux of tWo was that "this ain't working" so change was needed, low and behold, change came and things got better, that's pretty much it.

I've not celebrated Masai being fired even once, I am simply looking at the situation objectively and think there were more than enough reasons to justify his firing. If Bobby stays in as the person in charge, as I have said multiple times I would have rather they fired them both or fired only Bobby. I'm just not going to chicken little it up and cry about the sky falling and how the franchise is doomed before the seat is even cold.

We needed a change in the FO, firing Masai and leaving Bobby behind is not a change. Change can be good or bad, it will take time before that becomes apparent, and if you guys think it will be overwhelmingly bad, man power to you, I'm not telling you how to feel. I just want to see who we've got and what they do before I yell about how terrible everything is.

People are acting like we just traded away prime KD (Masai), but we just traded an aging injured star (Masai the past 5 years). I'm not as attached to the past as most people, it be what it do.

[DelAbbot]

tWo wanted Masai fired, and are now defending Ed Rogers.

In a strange round-about way, we'll see them in full support on upcoming win-now trades instead of a rebuild.

Let me make one thing clear

Randle McMurphy is not TWO. He does not represent TWO. TWO has nothing to do with Randle McMurphy who makes outrageous claims about performance of Toronto sports team FO's and Ed Rogers.

This reads like one of those disclaimers advertisers put at the bottom of commercials. Can they really be trusted?

We have broken up since you started staunchly backing Daulton Varsho for Gabriel Moreno trade