ImageImageImageImageImage

Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

nikster
RealGM
Posts: 14,510
And1: 12,991
Joined: Sep 08, 2013

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1801 » by nikster » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:27 pm

mtcan wrote:
Indeed wrote:
WetLikeWater wrote:

man, I would love that here in Toronto!


He didn't play small ball 5 on defense, he wasn't guarding Gobert, the clip showed Harris / Scott / Howard?

They always started Dwight Howard or Tony Bradley at center when Embiid didn't play...so if they did go small it wasn't a focus of theirs...

Checked the stats, Simmons Played about 200 minutes without Bradely, Howard or Bradley on the court, 47 min in the playoffs. Decent sample but only 10% of the season
User avatar
ash_k
RealGM
Posts: 16,396
And1: 9,131
Joined: Apr 14, 2010
         

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1802 » by ash_k » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:47 pm

If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:
Sinant wrote:I treat the Phoenix/Cleveland/Boston Shaqs like I do Wizards MJ. Never happened.
ATLTimekeeper
RealGM
Posts: 42,543
And1: 23,735
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1803 » by ATLTimekeeper » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:52 pm

ash_k wrote:If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too how many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:


You think these two company men would sing the same tune today now that the trade is dead?

Eric Smith: He's a tough fit on any team, especially for the Raptors. Let's not forget Siakam was All-NBA just two years ago. Tampa happened./quote]

Matt Devlin: Look, he's talented but you have to wonder if his heart is committed doing what it takes to win it all. We know that Siakam and Fred don't have anything to prove in that regard
User avatar
Jcity08
RealGM
Posts: 12,967
And1: 18,107
Joined: May 06, 2018
       

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1804 » by Jcity08 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:11 pm

PrinceAli wrote:Lol
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Image
Image
Image

Signed with team T.W.O for the 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 season.
User avatar
pingpongrac
RealGM
Posts: 11,758
And1: 16,935
Joined: Mar 18, 2015
   

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1805 » by pingpongrac » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:14 pm

Danny1616 wrote:Simmons is a flawed player but he's become so underrated it's unbelievable.


Not really. Most people still think he's a top 20-25 player because of his defence, floor game, potential and size. The problem is, until he finally starts shooting outside of the paint and improves his FT shooting, you basically need to build your entire team around his deficiencies. That's a tough task -- especially considering he's making ~36.5M for the next 4 seasons -- and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us either when Siakam can already do 90% of the things that Simmons can at a similar level plus he has a bit of a midrange game and has proven he can hit the three at a respectable rate in 2 of the last 3 seasons. And as others have said, a trade for Simmons centred around FVV+ wrecks our spacing, so I wouldn't be a big fan of that either.
Image
Rapsdaman
Junior
Posts: 303
And1: 81
Joined: Jan 02, 2011

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1806 » by Rapsdaman » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:36 pm

Fvv + Boucher + Trent jr for Ben simmons and tryesse maxey. Getting maxey for replace fvv just might make this work. We might even be willing to throw in a pic to make this work. Line up of maxey-scottie-og-pascal-simmons at the 5. Precoius 6th man
sidsid
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,989
And1: 3,808
Joined: Jun 03, 2003

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1807 » by sidsid » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:07 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
kj_ wrote:

It’s not just about getting isolated on and beat. Teams can cover for that even if it’s not ideal. Send the double to help when Fred is backed down by a bigger player. Or send the double when the Durant type wing puts the ball on the floor.

The real issue is perimeter close outs. When the scrambles and rotations occur it all to often ends with Fred running out (or Kyle in the past too) and a wing 6’6” or taller shooting like it’s an open shot even when the six footer is “close”.

Swap that close out from 6’ to 6’10” and that shot doesn’t even get attempted and more likely than not turns into a much worse late clock shot with a considerably worse percentage and PPP outcome.

Athletic, switchable length has tremendous value to team defence.

I make the Fred and parts for Simmons trade without a second thought.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know, 2 of the last 3 years opponent 3PA tends to be lower with Fred on the court relative to the rest of the team. fwiw, last year the team had the highest frequency of late shot clock possessions and 4th highest frequency of opponent very late shot possessions. That's with both Fred and Kyle. Sure, theoretically Simmons physical abilities could improve that, but it wouldn't be significant or lead to much impact difference.

You're not wrong in theory, but you're the results speak for themselves.


This is going to be a bit of a jokey response ATL, but it's meant to be lite examples so hopefully you don't take offense.

Fred played a good amount of minutes off the bench in the regular season during our chip run, and had some solid stats with some poor percentages inside the arc, but not too bad. Against the Sixers, he did not play a lot of minutes, and his stats cratered across the board. In theory, this should not have happened when you look at the regular season.

However, that is not the only anomaly of that series. Jimmy Butler was pretty good all season in his combo guard role. And that was also the case during the series...but, that changed during 4th quarters as the series went along. Again, our regular season analytics says that this shouldn't be happening.

The only thing that changed between quarters was the defender: Danny Green to Kawhi. Kawhi hasn't been on our team in a while so for reference sake he's a bit like Barnes in stature (or Simmons) if that jogs your memory. Now I don't know why we would do that because Green is a very good defender (just look at the analytics). And Kawhi was always an injury risk so I don't know why we would move him there when we had our secret weapon, FVV, on the bench. You'd get the analytical bonus of 3pt percentages going down across the board on top of shutdown Jimmy defense (which should also be happening with Danny though; another mystery).

4 to 7 game sample sizes are too small for analytical purposes, so we may never know why these analytical anomalies took place. Maybe variance. Maybe Jimmy caught a cold on the bench every third quarter.

But I have a theory that I will share.... For the low price of 200$ on my Patreon as to why the playoffs tend to be different.

(Again, tongue in cheek stuff here).
User avatar
ash_k
RealGM
Posts: 16,396
And1: 9,131
Joined: Apr 14, 2010
         

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1808 » by ash_k » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:16 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
ash_k wrote:If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too how many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:


You think these two company men would sing the same tune today now that the trade is dead?

Eric Smith: He's a tough fit on any team, especially for the Raptors. Let's not forget Siakam was All-NBA just two years ago. Tampa happened./quote]

Matt Devlin: Look, he's talented but you have to wonder if his heart is committed doing what it takes to win it all. We know that Siakam and Fred don't have anything to prove in that regard


Company men or not. Facts are the Facts. You can focus on one series and just offense, to judge a player.

Or you can appreciate the other unique aspect of a player's game ...then you will understand why he has accumulated so many accolades despite never averaging more than 16.9points in a season.

....Then you will understand why someone like Matt Devlin that makes a living looking at players in person would say "He has the potential to be the best player in the game"

BTW Eric Smith was not for a Siakam for Ben trade (too much of equal value, a lateral move) . But had anyone asked him for FVV+Boucher+picks though?! You can have no doubt about his answer
Sinant wrote:I treat the Phoenix/Cleveland/Boston Shaqs like I do Wizards MJ. Never happened.
StringerBell
Veteran
Posts: 2,710
And1: 2,201
Joined: Apr 29, 2007

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1809 » by StringerBell » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:43 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
ash_k wrote:If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too how many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:


You think these two company men would sing the same tune today now that the trade is dead?

Eric Smith: He's a tough fit on any team, especially for the Raptors. Let's not forget Siakam was All-NBA just two years ago. Tampa happened./quote]

Matt Devlin: Look, he's talented but you have to wonder if his heart is committed doing what it takes to win it all. We know that Siakam and Fred don't have anything to prove in that regard


No question Siakam was offered up for Simmons, and Morey said no.
kj_
Analyst
Posts: 3,329
And1: 3,299
Joined: Feb 06, 2013

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1810 » by kj_ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:56 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
kj_ wrote:

It’s not just about getting isolated on and beat. Teams can cover for that even if it’s not ideal. Send the double to help when Fred is backed down by a bigger player. Or send the double when the Durant type wing puts the ball on the floor.

The real issue is perimeter close outs. When the scrambles and rotations occur it all to often ends with Fred running out (or Kyle in the past too) and a wing 6’6” or taller shooting like it’s an open shot even when the six footer is “close”.

Swap that close out from 6’ to 6’10” and that shot doesn’t even get attempted and more likely than not turns into a much worse late clock shot with a considerably worse percentage and PPP outcome.

Athletic, switchable length has tremendous value to team defence.

I make the Fred and parts for Simmons trade without a second thought.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know, 2 of the last 3 years opponent 3PA tends to be lower with Fred on the court relative to the rest of the team. fwiw, last year the team had the highest frequency of late shot clock possessions and 4th highest frequency of opponent very late shot possessions. That's with both Fred and Kyle. Sure, theoretically Simmons physical abilities could improve that, but it wouldn't be significant or lead to much impact difference.

You're not wrong in theory, but you're the results speak for themselves.

I’m curious as to what the % of 3pt makes are when Fred or Kyle are contesting compared to OG and Siakam?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Blacklash2k4
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 245
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
       

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1811 » by Blacklash2k4 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 12:05 am

There were small "instagram" rumblings from "sources" that Raptors made the offer of FVV and GTJ for Simmons. Obviously, this trade cannot be done until Jan 15, 2022 and is likely not true, but I had a fun discussion with my friend about this, as if it were true. Our spacing would be absolute garbage. From that conversation, I proposed this adjustment to the trade as opposed to the "rumoured" trade.

76ers: FVV + GTJ
Raptors: Simmons + Suggs
Magic: Barnes + Maxey

Why this trade won't happen:

If the rumors are true and FVV + Trent is what the Raptors are reported to be offering "per sources", 76ers will have to accept this from the Raptors especially if Simmons seriously sits and will not sit out and they get off to a bad start cuz of the drama.

Suggs would provide better spacing than Barnes would with Simmons on the team now and A LOT of Raptors fans wanted the Raptors to take Suggs at 4. He's more NBA ready for his first year than Barnes will be. This will also free up the PG position for those who want to play Simmons at C. Lineup would likely be something like Suggs, OG, Simmons, Pascal and Precious/Birch.

Magic were gonna take Barnes at 5 if Raptors took Suggs at 4, so they are interested in Barnes upside and fits their timeline of a full rebuild. They also get Maxey for absolute free because Raptors took Barnes at 4 instead of Suggs. Maxey is a young PG prospect that would fill the Suggs PG hold and they get Barnes would Raptors fans believe he can be a potential star and best player in the draft in the next 3-4 years.

Why this trade won't happen:

This trade can't happen until Jan 15, 2022. Simmons would reported to be fined by the 76ers for like $225k per game missed. He would losing out on millions by sitting out for that long. Simmons would likely play eventually if he isn't trade immediately or early on in the season. A Jan 15, 2022 trade is very unlikely. Also Morey, being the fleece that he is, would want so much more than just FVV and GTJ (even if we disagree).

Raptors are clearly very enamored about Barnes over Suggs. While Suggs provide better spacing, Barnes can potentially be better than Suggs in 3-4 years. Also, there's the rumor that Suggs didn't wanna be here and tanked his workout, so there's potential problems there. Lastly, MASSIVE DISCLAIMER, i don't advocate for this trade, but rather propose a better trade than what has been "rumoured from sources". I rather not trade for Simmons.

Magic might truly be in love with Suggs over Barnes after what he showcased in Summer League and an addition of Maxey might not be enough. They might want another first or couple seconds.

DISCLAIMERS

This is just a fun discussion i had with my friend that I wanted to share here to get to know what other people think. This is just a trade i proposed assuming that the FVV + GTJ rumour is true, which it likely isn't. I just thought this trade would be better than what was rumoured. Of course this can be modified to suit more normal Raptors proposes from the forums like:

76ers: FVV + Boucher + pick
Raptors: Simmons + Suggs
Magic: Barnes + Maxey

I know some people were more willing to trade for Simmons before the draft and trading for Simmons now seems stupid offensively especially with Barnes on the team. Just give me your thoughts. Please be gentle and don't kill me too hard. I don't really want to trade for Simmons, but just wanted to have a conversation about this trade lol
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,533
And1: 51,960
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1812 » by WuTang_CMB » Sat Sep 4, 2021 12:19 am

The only team to fix Simmons is Toronto under Nurse.
Swag
RealGM
Posts: 11,406
And1: 9,523
Joined: Mar 29, 2010

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1813 » by Swag » Sat Sep 4, 2021 12:36 am

ash_k wrote:If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too how many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:


I want to vomit


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app
Tripod
RealGM
Posts: 12,978
And1: 12,342
Joined: Aug 13, 2021
 

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1814 » by Tripod » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:40 am

Saw this elsewhere and had to share as I thought it was funny. Amazing how the lyrics matched up so well with the whole circus. And the Adele tie in with Rich Paul caps it all off!

Morey: Hello, it's me. I was wondering if after all these months you'd like to meet. To go over everything.

Simmons: They say that time's supposed to heal ya. But I ain't done much healing. Hello, can you hear me? I'm in California dreaming about who we used to be. When we were younger and free. I've forgotten how it felt before the world fell at our feet.

Embiid: There's such a difference between us. And a million miles. Hello from the other side. I must've called a thousand times. To tell you I'm sorry for everything that I've done. But when I call, you never seem to be home.

Rich Paul: It's no secret that the both of us are running out of time. So hello from the other side.
ATLTimekeeper
RealGM
Posts: 42,543
And1: 23,735
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1815 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:21 pm

kj_ wrote:I’m curious as to what the % of 3pt makes are when Fred or Kyle are contesting compared to OG and Siakam?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That stuff is easy to look up.

DFG% 3PT

Fred 38
Kyle 39.7
Siakam 40.7
OG 39.2

The previous year

Siakam 32.3
Fred 34
Lowry 33
OG 37.7

Some other interesting "no length" stats, but...

Deflections/36
Simmons 3.9
FVV 3.8

Contested 3PA/36
Simmons 2.3
FVV 3.2

BLK/36
Simmons 0.7
FVV 0.7

I'm not even here to disparage Simmons with this, it's really about how remarkable FVV actually is and how incredibly rare it is to have someone that can be that active on defense and still crank out 9 3PAs a game. He's burning his legs out, playing more minutes with zero rim protection and still capable of running offense or being a threat off the ball. Highly underrated player. Simmons, highly overrated. Still really good, but highly overrated in terms of potential, impact, difficulty of fit, toughness.
User avatar
Tha Cynic
RealGM
Posts: 26,694
And1: 28,616
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Location: Starin' at the world through my rearview
     

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1816 » by Tha Cynic » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:30 pm

Simmons is just sitting the season out if the best offer Philly gets is centered around FVV lol. At minimum the Raptors will have to give up Siakam or OG and more.
Kobe Bryant:You asked for my hustle - I gave you my heart, because it came with so much more."~Kobe #MambaOut
User avatar
everdiso
General Manager
Posts: 7,846
And1: 10,227
Joined: Nov 18, 2008

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1817 » by everdiso » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:31 pm

ash_k wrote:If we are lucky enough to get Ben for FVV+Boucher+Cap fillers+Picks

Just don't forget what your Raptors very own Eric Smith& the voice Matt Devlin said when asked about a Ben trade.

Eric Smith:
~1000%. Every team in the league should have interest in him... Too many people are caught up by the shooting(offense).
He is a DPOY candidate, multiple All-Star appearances, All-Defensive team that alone is enough for me. Sixers should not trade him. Every manager in the league should try to make a deal for him.


Matt Devlin:
~I agree.... He is a force to be reckoned with... He is a future HOF...he is a dominant force. He has the potential to be the best player in the game. Not too many 6’10 PG can do what he does. I would take him in a heartbeat


said about a month post-Hawks series. Just don't forget :lol:


I've never liked Eric and this quote is yet another reason why.


He condescendingly states that us dummies care too much about "offense" (I.e. actual performance) and should care more about all-star appearances (I.e. hype).
"I wasn't gonna act surprised - cuz I wasn't surprised."
User avatar
Preliudas
Senior
Posts: 526
And1: 457
Joined: Nov 21, 2020
     

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1818 » by Preliudas » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:35 pm

Blacklash2k4 wrote:

DISCLAIMERS

This is just a fun discussion i had with my friend that I wanted to share here to get to know what other people think. This is just a trade i proposed assuming that the FVV + GTJ rumour is true, which it likely isn't. I just thought this trade would be better than what was rumoured. Of course this can be modified to suit more normal Raptors proposes from the forums like:

76ers: FVV + Boucher + pick
Raptors: Simmons + Suggs
Magic: Barnes + Maxey



So pretty much Raptors would give away FVV,Boucher, a pick and Barnes (player who they put so much hope into, which is the same player that they drafter over Suggs) to get Suggs and Simmons in return? Sorry but no way Masai would do this.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 41,355
And1: 14,396
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1819 » by dagger » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:53 pm

Preliudas wrote:
Blacklash2k4 wrote:

DISCLAIMERS

This is just a fun discussion i had with my friend that I wanted to share here to get to know what other people think. This is just a trade i proposed assuming that the FVV + GTJ rumour is true, which it likely isn't. I just thought this trade would be better than what was rumoured. Of course this can be modified to suit more normal Raptors proposes from the forums like:

76ers: FVV + Boucher + pick
Raptors: Simmons + Suggs
Magic: Barnes + Maxey



So pretty much Raptors would give away FVV,Boucher, a pick and Barnes (player who they put so much hope into, which is the same player that they drafter over Suggs) to get Suggs and Simmons in return? Sorry but no way Masai would do this.


Some of the trade ideas people are throwing around can't be done until the late fall/early winter because of CBA restrictions. It would seem that any trade of Simmons has to be done sooner.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
pharring
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,764
And1: 502
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Location: Lofty Bay Street Tower

Re: Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons 

Post#1820 » by pharring » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:04 pm

Saw on The Athletic that Rich Paul may want Maxey included in any Simmons deal.

Doesn't really have to be too complicated:

Pascal + Flynn = Simmons + Maxey

Not saying I would do that deal. I probably wouldn't. But Embiid and Pascal are both from Cameroon, all the contracts work and if you are team committed to 6'8+ position-less basketball, Simmons would seem to be the crown jewel of that type of system. Also, if you think Boucher can be a starting PF, you slide OG to SF and away you go.

But again, I don't think I do this deal. I like Pascal way too much.

Return to Toronto Raptors