Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[alienchild]

I am surprised to say that OG and pascal may actually have a higher overall ceiling than scottie

Pascal has already hit his ceiling and this season will probably mark OG's ceiling. They are 27 and 24.

your knowledge of the future is extraordinary.
how do you do it?
time travel? drug-induced trance? superpowers? messages from god?

Buttcoin mining.

[djsunyc]

blow it up and rebuild.

but that pick better be awesome right away.

[Raps in 4]

I am surprised to say that OG and pascal may actually have a higher overall ceiling than scottie

Pascal has already hit his ceiling and this season will probably mark OG's ceiling. They are 27 and 24.

your knowledge of the future is extraordinary.
how do you do it?
time travel? drug-induced trance? superpowers? messages from god?

Not being a homer? Most players are who they are past age 25.

It's nice to be surprised by something, but expecting guys who are 24 and 27 to have higher ceilings than someone age 20 is absurd.

[And1Skip]

Yeah I don't what some people are smoking these days. I watched the entire game and what I saw from Barnes was fine. VERY limited limits in the first quarter, then got hurt a little in the second and had to come out again. In the 2nd half, saw that he was coasting (maybe bc of his injury or maybe he's just young and immature) and then saw him turn it up and played great D and got some points at the end. Nothing surprising. I certainly didnt think Barnes bad moments last night were detriment to the team - he had ups and downs and we still blew out the other team. So whatever..there were flashes and he didn't hang his head the entire game which happens to some rooks. I'd say he played a big part of a blow-out win but wasn't the best player boo-hoo. Scottie needs learning moments to get better. Relatively bad game on the offensive end but overall he played a big part of a team win. Need to expect that from your core players bc no one plays well offensively every game. Were these people the same people that wanted to exile Lowry after an 0-fer performance in game 1 of the playoffs?

[nuggett]

The toxicity this year is biblical. Geeze, 3 summer league games and the kid is banged up and all of sudden he's terrible?

Get a grip.

[OAKLEY_2]

I like Delano's game.. just wish he had better athletism to get int he lane and finish over guys easier .. I guess if he had that he'd be a 1st round pick.

But he's got good tools and definitely needs improvrment on his shot. Interesting how he progresses over the next year.


905 will do him well

He has amazing confidence the way he plays. He is fearless. Barnes still has that "uh damn I just f'd that up" and pounds the stanchion. Banton looks like he is fully aware of how to run an offence, protect the ball, make a great pass and press like a savage. My takeways. Banton and Wainwright can ball. Scottie is Man-kid and work in progress. Imagine if they made him do 905?

[anotherhomer]

I haven't watch his highlights but cade has proven he can do this in college.
With the ball in his hand a lot this season, I think he will have a lot of chance to figure this out

Would agree that Barnes is a lot smoother than og in transition. But most ppl would be

I am trying hard not to get crushed by ubmet expectations #diehardrapfan

Comparing Cade and his FG to Barnes makes little sense. Again - it’s the skills.

We all know Cade can score, Suggs can score, they have shown the shooting, the finishing.

Barnes with the ball in his hands literally has no scoring ability, has running looks clunky, and he isn’t a primary ball handler.

All we know about Cade is that he can shoot the 3. He has not shown that he has the ability to create space and finish at the NBA level.

When I see Barnes run he looks very smooth, almost like he's gliding. I don't know why some are trying to make it seem as though he runs like rookie OG Anunoby.

[OAKLEY_2]

I think Scottie will be more than fine. Still has to learn how to play though.

[Duffman100]

The toxicity this year is biblical. Geeze, 3 summer league games and the kid is banged up and all of sudden he's terrible?

Get a grip.

It's becoming increasingly harder to keep coming to this forum. Where a 20 year old rookie is being labelled a bust after 3 summer league games.

[raincityraptors]

Having watched every minute of all 3 games, I don't get why people are being so negative.

This group of guys had a bad second game, talked it over and put in some great defensive effort and just dominated the hyped up Houston Summer League team.

It was also the first game where "positionless basketball" looked pretty functional without Flynn on the court to organize things.

Precious has been great but with more time with the team, I hope he starts looking to pass.

Ish is the best player on the team in my books so far. Love him coming off the bench for us to cause opposing scorers fits and try to throw them off rhythm.

I don't get why people are down on Scottie, unless they are just watching highlights and looking at boxscores. He does so many things well for a kid his age.

If you look at my draft posts, I'm a hard Sugg stan and still am. After yesterday's game I can see what the Raptors are going for team building wise and why Scottie was the pick. We are trying to innovate and get weird. We are asking guys who don't normally have the freedom to be versatile to experiment and play through mistakes.

I love the progress I'm seeing from the group with one exception: David Johnson. I was most excited by his pick up on draft night but the same thing that kept him out of the first round is making him seem like a waste of space on a 2 way deal. The man just spaces out and stands around, watching the game being played around him. His effort level just isn't fitting in with the rest of the group.

I'm really excited by the way the Raps want to play this year and there are going to be bumps and a lot of failure along the way. If this is a development year for a new positionless system which puts us in a position to grab another player who would thrive in a system like that in next years draft (and there are more than a few) - the time is now to do it.

Scottie fits that team vision better than Suggs. I'm going to hate watching him go Alpha playing for the Magic. But the Raps team and system has the chance to be more special than Suggs the individual player.

That is what is making this Summer League team fun for me. We are on to something special, but it isn't a star. It's a system we are finding the best players for. I think the system is going to be special. We have the right Coach, development staff and GM to make it happen so I'm glad we are taking the risk - even if it means watching bad passes, shots and ball handling while the team figures out how to make it work and who to make it work with.

[Reeko]

I haven't watch his highlights but cade has proven he can do this in college.
With the ball in his hand a lot this season, I think he will have a lot of chance to figure this out

Would agree that Barnes is a lot smoother than og in transition. But most ppl would be

I am trying hard not to get crushed by ubmet expectations #diehardrapfan

Comparing Cade and his FG to Barnes makes little sense. Again - it’s the skills.

We all know Cade can score, Suggs can score, they have shown the shooting, the finishing.

Barnes with the ball in his hands literally has no scoring ability, has running looks clunky, and he isn’t a primary ball handler.

All we know about Cade is that he can shoot the 3. He has not shown that he has the ability to create space and finish at the NBA level.

When I see Barnes run he looks very smooth, almost like he's gliding. I don't know why some are trying to make it seem as though he runs like rookie OG Anunoby.

It was already a concern at the college level, there were quite a few people who saw that Cade might have issues creating space at the NBA level because he wasn't blowing by guys in college.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The toxicity this year is biblical. Geeze, 3 summer league games and the kid is banged up and all of sudden he's terrible?

Get a grip.

It's becoming increasingly harder to keep coming to this forum. Where a 20 year old rookie is being labelled a bust after 3 summer league games.

People need to accept reality or start watching ORL games. Because, he's not on our team(never was) and most of us don't care.

[Pointgod]

Jimmy Butler, Doug Christie, Ben Wallace,

Jimmy Butler was an allstar in his 4th season at the age of 25. Ben Wallace is the perfect example of a change of scenery/ system player. Gordon Hayward was 20,5,4 by his 5th season in the league at 24 years old. Paul Milsap was 17 and 8 in his 5th season at 25. And he put up the same numbers in Atlanta and didn’t become an allstar until a change of scenery.

You guys are just throwing out names without even doing the research first. And the fact that you think you’ve found a handful of exceptions out of the 100’s of players that have cycled through the NBA doesn’t really disprove the original point.

you said you know who the player is by 3rd-4th year. Now you moving the goal post with "change of scenery" excuse. The fact is players improve and develop past 4th year in the league.

Go look at my original post. I said if a player has been getting consistent minutes you know by the 4th year or sometimes 3rd year in the NBA. I also factored a change of scenario in into my original post. Let’s see OG is already 24, getting 33 minutes a game and has a 20% usage. He already shoots 40% from 3, 78% from the FT line averages 6 boards, 2 assists and 1 steal while giving us 16 points. He’s not going to play 40 minutes, his usage might go up slightly but he’s not going to be a lead ball handler, I expect his playmaking to get better but what I don’t think all of a sudden he’s going to turn into a consistent over 20+ scorer, 5+ assists. Remember there will be slight improvements but there will also be future seasons when those numbers go down as well. There’s always regression to the mean, but players usually stay consistent once they’ve hit a certain plateau.

[Mikistan]

The toxicity this year is biblical. Geeze, 3 summer league games and the kid is banged up and all of sudden he's terrible?

Get a grip.

It's becoming increasingly harder to keep coming to this forum. Where a 20 year old rookie is being labelled a bust after 3 summer league games.

Being a mod must have aged you ten years eh

[Mikistan]

I haven't watch his highlights but cade has proven he can do this in college.
With the ball in his hand a lot this season, I think he will have a lot of chance to figure this out

Would agree that Barnes is a lot smoother than og in transition. But most ppl would be

I am trying hard not to get crushed by ubmet expectations #diehardrapfan

All we know about Cade is that he can shoot the 3. He has not shown that he has the ability to create space and finish at the NBA level.

When I see Barnes run he looks very smooth, almost like he's gliding. I don't know why some are trying to make it seem as though he runs like rookie OG Anunoby.

It was already a concern at the college level, there were quite a few people who saw that Cade might have issues creating space at the NBA level because he wasn't blowing by guys in college.

We aren't talking about college Cade

It's all about 3 game summer league sample size Cade and that Cade sucks ass worse than Barnes

[Backcountry]

I like Delano's game.. just wish he had better athletism to get int he lane and finish over guys easier .. I guess if he had that he'd be a 1st round pick.

But he's got good tools and definitely needs improvrment on his shot. Interesting how he progresses over the next year.


905 will do him well

He has amazing confidence the way he plays. He is fearless. Barnes still has that "uh damn I just f'd that up" and pounds the stanchion. Banton looks like he is fully aware of how to run an offence, protect the ball, make a great pass and press like a savage. My takeways. Banton and Wainwright can ball. Scottie is Man-kid and work in progress. Imagine if they made him do 905?

I don't know how much of it is confidence (Banton's) and how much is no pressure from being a #46 pick and just going for it. He seems to be playing with all the pressure of a YMCA pickup game on his back. Barnes I'm sure is feeling it already, being a #4 pick and the fan base (many of whom had already sized their Suggs' jerseys) now expecting him to come in and be the second coming of Kawhi. He's playing tentatively, looks like he's trying to impress without impressing. I think he is just overthinking it, and it will be up to the coaching staff to work that out of him so he just recognizes the situation and does what he needs to do at the instant it happens.

Just for comparision, this is from Kawhi's Wikipedia entry:
According to Sports Illustrated, NBA scouts were aware in 2011 that Leonard had a strong work ethic and was a "physical marvel, 6'7" with a 7'3" wingspan and 11-inch hands, too strong to screen and too long to elude". Nevertheless, they found him "difficult to pin down". Sporting News has asserted that Leonard was known more for his defense and rebounding than for his offensive capabilities when he first entered the league. He was compared to Metta World Peace and Gerald Wallace, and his outside shooting (or lack thereof) was a concern.

[Duffman100]

The toxicity this year is biblical. Geeze, 3 summer league games and the kid is banged up and all of sudden he's terrible?

Get a grip.

It's becoming increasingly harder to keep coming to this forum. Where a 20 year old rookie is being labelled a bust after 3 summer league games.

Being a mod must have aged you ten years eh

It's like the internet forum equivalent of being a police officer. You're really just constantly exposed to the extremes...

[brownbobcat]

It was already a concern at the college level, there were quite a few people who saw that Cade might have issues creating space at the NBA level because he wasn't blowing by guys in college.

With the amount of screen action & stepbacks in the NBA these days plus the freedom for offensive player to push off, I don't see that as a major concern.

[BDDray420]

Why people talking about Scottie playing elite defense and ability to get to the line in summer league? All of these look better NOW because it's the summer league. When it comes time to play in the NBA none of yall be saying any of this **** and he's gonna get exposed hard. Scottie's strengths right now is size and court vision. This was a reach of a #4 pick in a deep draft.

Hey Nostradamus, am I ever going to win the lottery or what?

You would know this yourself since you clearly can see how good Scottie is going to be

[WaltFrazier]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32010903/nba-summer-league-2021-biggest-surprises-disappointments-far-las-vegas

ESPN article, 5 insiders asked 5 questions about SL so far. 2 of the 5 picked Suggs as the SL MVP so far. Which doesn't matter so much but their comments are telling:

Young: Jalen Suggs. There is a belief that Suggs is a culture changer, a player who can lift up a franchise with his polished professionalism and hard-charging competitive motor. So far in Orlando, that has been the case. He looks like the kind of player who wants to do it all, from rebounding and defending to scoring, passing and leading. There are some Russell Westbrook vibes to Suggs' makeup, and the Magic have to be thrilled that he fell to them at No. 5.

Bontemps: Though he left his third game with a hand injury, Suggs showed the Magic, and their fans, everything they could have hoped for. Suggs, who dominated last year as a freshman at Gonzaga, has the potential to finally galvanize a Magic team that has been in desperate need of a true tentpole star to build around. He plays with a rugged, aggressive style at both ends of the court that's easy to fall for, and he can do it all on the court, as he showed by averaging 20 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.0 assists and 1.5 steals through those first two games.

Sounds right.