2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[PhilBlackson]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

[Dalek]

There are so many players in this draft who are comparable with each other who teams could have ranked 1a and 1b on their draft board.

Cooper Flagg vs Ace Bailey
Dylan Harper vs Kaspars Jakucionis
Kon Knueppel vs Liam McNeeley
VJ Edgecombe vs Tre Johnson
Jeremiah Fears vs Jase Richardson
Khaman Malauch vs Derik Queen
Egor Demin vs Nolan Traore
Ben Saraf vs Sergio de Larrea
Noa Essengue vs Noah Penda
Thomas Sorber vs Asa Newell
Carter Bryant vs Adou Thiero
Nique Clifford vs Cedric Coward
Miles Byrd vs Will Riley
Collin Murray-Boyles vs Rasheer Fleming
Labaron Philon vs Boogie Fland
Alex Condon vs Johni Broome
Walter Clayton Jr vs Kam Jones
Tahaad Pettiford vs Mark Sears
Drake Powell vs Isaiah Evans
Hugo Gonzalez vs Chaz Lanier

If you had to choose among each set of prospects, who do you think will ultimately be the better player when their careers are all said and done?

I think there are issues with who you compare to each other.

Cooper is in a clear tier above all others in this draft.

Dylan Harper might play the same position as Kasparas, but the driving skills of Harper put him in elite company. How many guards finish on his volume at 70% at the rim?

Cooper and Harper have all-NBA capability, at least all-star capability.

Tre Johnson and VJ Edgecombe are in the same tier and maybe you can argue VJ because of the driving skill and defensive upside. Tre Johnson is a pull-up threat so you can see something like a Cam Thomas type impact 6 man. VJ is more like Ben Mathurin. Both solid rotation players, but both feel a bit undersized or don't play big enough.

I think I would group Asa Newell and Noa Essengue. Both are high energy PFs who can defend and board but not great shooters. I lean towards Noa because he plays without any fear in a pro league. He just has a maturity about him where I can see a unique player in time. He is only 18 and has a lot of physical/skill development to go. These two need to go to the right development system or they could have short careers.

Maluach and Queen to me are equals as far as tier but fit will matter. Maluach can end up like Brook Lopez and be a DPOY-type with some shooting upside. Queen is more like a finesse big and I can't not see Julius Randle when he plays.

Just today, I was actually thinking that I did actually prefer Theiro at 39 over Bryant at 7. Someone will love Theiro in the second round. Both will be three and d types for playoff teams. Solid role players but nothing more than that.

[Raptors Realtor]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

The offer seems steep to me for a 37 year old Durant at this stage in his career. Don't think he's worth 2 legit starters & 3 1sts, especially considering I think he's lucky to be healthy and play 3/4 of the season. I think if we're consolidating starters + picks we need to get a younger & healthier player.

[PhilBlackson]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

The offer seems steep to me for a 37 year old Durant at this stage in his career. Don't think he's worth 2 legit starters & 3 1sts, especially considering I think he's lucky to be healthy and play 3/4 of the season. I think if we're consolidating starters + picks we need to get a younger & healthier player.

Not that it makes a huge difference but I said couple as in 2 picks which I figured if it's within the same 3 year span then they're likely late 1sts anyways with that lineup and yeah I think even at this age KD can command a couple of starters & couple of picks (which is pretty much half what they paid) which I think will be part of the goal of PHX to remain somewhat competitive to keep Booker happy. Maybe take Gradey out but KD is still putting up 27ppg when you couple that with BI, that's a helluva potent scoring duo while the other 2 guys are great facilitators that can get their own bucket (esp Queen). I honestly think that team could actually push to contend in that window BUT like I said I'm not sure how I feel about it because it's microwaving the process and only would give us a handful of years to enjoy it but nonetheless fun.

But of course I agree with finding a young star...I don't really see one on the horizon that fits that bill. Maybe Giannis but the entire league will be going on a bidding war for him and one of the strongest ones could/should be the Spurs. Personally I'm not sold that Booker would put us over the top but I feel like it would need to it would need to be either a big wing or big PG post draft when I'm fairly confident we draft a C. Anyways it was more a random thought than a serious suggestion. Hopefully we can find a star package to strike on with RJ, Dick and Poeltl not too far down the line before all those contracts come due...

[Yallbecrazy]

All this Queen talk, can someone please tell me why Queen is a better prospect than CMB? CMB is a similar rebounder and shooter, better passer, more mobile, much better defender, better interior scorer. Only thing is Queen is 3 inches taller, but given reported wingspans (reported 3 inches longer than Queen's) he probably is only 1 inch taller from a functional perspective.

Is it just a height thing? Because he's taller he fits more of a traditional centre role?

CMB had better stats nearly across the board despite playing on a worse team and against better competition while also being 6 months younger.

[Dalek]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

I would keep Poeltl because you need a defensive anchor otherwise you have like two rookies who will get shredded and KD will lose himself.

I actually had a similar thought to you. I went differently and thought to trade IQ, Dick and filler for KD. I am not a fan of IQ's deal (he can chop wood carry water some place else) and would prefer KD over him for a short term deal.

The only hitch would be that we need to draft Dylan Harper.

Harper/RJ
Ingram/Walter
Barnes/Ochai
Durant/Mogbo
Poeltl/draft a stretch big in Wolf/Condon/Raynaud

That's a fun team and scary on many shot creation and scoring levels with some nice defensive options.

[Basketball_Jones]

Tre Johnson is the most underrated guy in the draft seeing him in the 7-9 range in alot of mock drafts.

His negatives (defense/athleticism) are being over thought, he has 10x the athleticism of a Luca Doncic and elite Wing size.

He's the perfect long term RJ replacement in our starting 5 (we wont be paying RJ anyway).

He might be one of the only rookies who can immediately step in and make us better next year.

If we are sitting at 7 and it takes trading up to 5 to get him Masai should pull the trigger.

PG- Quickley
SG- Johnson
SF- Ingram
PF - Barnes
C - Poeltl

He's also a perfect fit for mainly spot-up shooting role next yr and we need the 3PT shooting.

Advanced stats still poorly rate out RJ in terms of overall impact/shooting/defense, if Johnson can hit 3's at high level could already be more valuable immediately.

He's a rich man's Harrison Barnes, more killer instinct/better passing/more creative version of Harrison Barnes.

One of the most sure things in the draft being undervalued because not elite athleticism.

Too often the elite athleticism perceived weakness is other thought with certain prospects, Tre is perfect example of this.

He’s not elite wing size at all but good at shooting guard. I don’t see him being able to scale up to play at the 3. I don’t really like the Harrison Barnes comparison but I get that they both like pull up J’s. But he indeed could be the most underrated for sure. Numbers don’t lie he’s basically the most efficient on ball scorer/shooter in the draft. Only knock is he’s not a swing for the fences pick like Mal or even Fears.

[Dr. Nick]

I’d be okay with demin. His passing is special for his size.

[PhilBlackson]

All this Queen talk, can someone please tell me why Queen is a better prospect than CMB? CMB is a similar rebounder and shooter, better passer, more mobile, much better defender, better interior scorer. Only thing is Queen is 3 inches taller, but given reported wingspans (reported 3 inches longer than Queen's) he probably is only 1 inch taller from a functional perspective.

Is it just a height thing? Because he's taller he fits more of a traditional centre role?

CMB had better stats nearly across the board despite playing on a worse team and against better competition while also being 6 months younger.

I think it's gonna be a personal preference of a more defensive or offensive oriented player...and yes some added size because with Queen there's more likely possibility that he can play C or at least more of it than CMB. But if you're gonna classify him as a "similar rebounder and shooter" likewise you should do so for Queen with his passing as the discrepancy in rebounding (0.7+ for Queen) and assists (0.4% for CMB) are roughly the same (actually Queen's rebounding is greater) so it seems a little convenient to claim conclusively one is "better" for a lower discrepancy but "similar" for a greater one. Ironically though on the defensive end Queen is averaging 1bpg/1spg and CMB 1.5bpg/1.3spg so on paper defensively doesn't look to be "much" better but of course I would give CMB the edge because that is his calling card.

I know people don't love the "eye test" and that's fine but I just think Queen has a lot more tricks and ways that he scores (and I don't agree that CMB is the better interior scorer). I also like that Queen is on the higher end of 70+% from the FT line vs the low end like CMB (who was actually under that the previous year) for projecting out a 3pt shot. Overall they have very similar production so I get your push back as obv you're prob the biggest CMB supporter there is on this board. Again I think it's just gonna be preference, you can try to make whatever argument you like to make but I'm leaving it at we'll just see who turns out better in the pros....and don't get me wrong I like CMB but he is a forward that I don't see being able to play any C and as such there would be complete overlap with Scottie, even if functionally Queen and CMB do similar things, again one can play C (at least occasionally at worst) and I personally believe Queen is the more dynamic scorer of the two that I think we'll see that bare true once they reach the NBA but ofc neither of us can say we're right just yet lol it will be fun to see how each guy pans out.

[Godaddycurse]

I’d be okay with demin. His passing is special for his size.

all the passing in the world is no good if you can't create off the bounce + finish and/or shoot to keep defense honest

[Indeed]

That's fair to go with BPA if you believe Queen is clearly above other players and available. The other side of the coin is that Masai and Bobby may not think see the offense as valuable as defense.

Traditionally they like +defenders - drafted Poeltl over Sabonis or OG over Kuzma. They did shock me with Dick over Jaime Jaquez Jr., but they again went back to their typical MO in 2024 and went with Mogbo over Filipowski and Shead over Ajay Mitchell (could have been drafted with Mogbo pick). They also traded for redraft guys like Ochai and Precious Achuiwa which also tend to have more defense.

is the defense from Poeltl that good?

I think Queen already has the skill to play like Poeltl, he can come off the bench and play behind Poeltl for the same role.

Meanwhile, Maluach will probably playing in the g-league on his first year if not second, and the roster may change, so I am unsure we should discuss him fitting with anyone.

You indeed would be mistaken, Khaman is playing right away for us, and it's not like we're asking him to do a lot for us yr 1. We are asking him to do things he already does well, set screens, roll hard, catch lobs, and be 7'2 and mobile

He is going to get fouled out in 5 mins or less.
He wasn't better than Chomche last year against the USA team in the Nike Hoop Summit, and you think he can play in the NBA right away? You must be dreaming.

[OhCanada]

All this Queen talk, can someone please tell me why Queen is a better prospect than CMB? CMB is a similar rebounder and shooter, better passer, more mobile, much better defender, better interior scorer. Only thing is Queen is 3 inches taller, but given reported wingspans (reported 3 inches longer than Queen's) he probably is only 1 inch taller from a functional perspective.

Is it just a height thing? Because he's taller he fits more of a traditional centre role?

CMB had better stats nearly across the board despite playing on a worse team and against better competition while also being 6 months younger.

I'm not trying to be that guy but especially with Derrick Queen you really had to watch the games. He has a tendancy to dominate games, he figures things out throughout the game and finds ways to win and its not just making shots, he is an incredibly smart player and hes just better at basketball than everyone else. That being said, I highly doubt Toronto will draft him because his biggest weakness is transition defense and thats a major red flag for our decision makers, its almost to the point where he's a non factor. You have to assume theres a chance he will not improve it. Although the rest of his game is phenomenal.

[PhilBlackson]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

I would keep Poeltl because you need a defensive anchor otherwise you have like two rookies who will get shredded and KD will lose himself.

I actually had a similar thought to you. I went differently and thought to trade IQ, Dick and filler for KD. I am not a fan of IQ's deal (he can chop wood carry water some place else) and would prefer KD over him for a short term deal.

The only hitch would be that we need to draft Dylan Harper.

Harper/RJ
Ingram/Walter
Barnes/Ochai
Durant/Mogbo
Poeltl/draft a stretch big in Wolf/Condon/Raynaud

That's a fun team and scary on many shot creation and scoring levels with some nice defensive options.

Oh trust me, I'd kill to put IQ in the deal over Yak , I like Quickley but I don't love him...I still think we're gonna need a bigger guard to truly contend it's why I still like Fears so much but I just feel like the FO won't consider it as seriously as I would. More importantly, I just have my doubts that PHX would bite at IQ as the main piece of a trade and of course I wasn't accounting for jumping to 2nd in the draft to draft Harper lol. Now if they would consider it I would 100% do that instead and even if we didn't jump to 2nd, I think with Fears that could be a very interesting group but ofc Harper is prob a bit more ready...

IQ is the part I just don't see being a go for PHX.

[OhCanada]

is the defense from Poeltl that good?

I think Queen already has the skill to play like Poeltl, he can come off the bench and play behind Poeltl for the same role.

Meanwhile, Maluach will probably playing in the g-league on his first year if not second, and the roster may change, so I am unsure we should discuss him fitting with anyone.

You indeed would be mistaken, Khaman is playing right away for us, and it's not like we're asking him to do a lot for us yr 1. We are asking him to do things he already does well, set screens, roll hard, catch lobs, and be 7'2 and mobile

He is going to get fouled out in 5 mins or less.
He wasn't better than Chomche last year against the USA team in the Nike Hoop Summit, and you think he can play in the NBA right away? You must be dreaming.

He is not going to foul out in 5 minutes. Theres literally footage of him guarding every position all year long at Duke.If there was ever a 7'2 Center that can guard on the perimeter its Khaman Maluach.

[Indeed]

All this Queen talk, can someone please tell me why Queen is a better prospect than CMB? CMB is a similar rebounder and shooter, better passer, more mobile, much better defender, better interior scorer. Only thing is Queen is 3 inches taller, but given reported wingspans (reported 3 inches longer than Queen's) he probably is only 1 inch taller from a functional perspective.

Is it just a height thing? Because he's taller he fits more of a traditional centre role?

CMB had better stats nearly across the board despite playing on a worse team and against better competition while also being 6 months younger.

I think it's gonna be a personal preference of a more defensive or offensive oriented player...and yes some added size because with Queen there's more likely possibility that he can play C or at least more of it than CMB. But if you're gonna classify him as a "similar rebounder and shooter" likewise you should do so for Queen with his passing as the discrepancy in rebounding (0.7+ for Queen) and assists (0.4% for CMB) are roughly the same (actually Queen's rebounding is greater) so it seems a little convenient to claim conclusively one is "better" for a lower discrepancy but "similar" for a greater one. Ironically though on the defensive end Queen is averaging 1bpg/1spg and CMB 1.5bpg/1.3spg so on paper defensively doesn't look to be "much" better but of course I would give CMB the edge because that is his calling card.

I know people don't love the "eye test" and that's fine but I just think Queen has a lot more tricks and ways that he scores (and I don't agree that CMB is the better interior scorer). I also like that Queen is on the higher end of 70+% from the FT line vs the low end like CMB (who was actually under that the previous year) for projecting out a 3pt shot. Overall they have very similar production so I get your push back as obv you're prob the biggest CMB supporter there is on this board. Again I think it's just gonna be preference, you can try to make whatever argument you like to make but I'm leaving it at we'll just see who turns out better in the pros....and don't get me wrong I like CMB but he is a forward that I don't see being able to play any C and as such there would be complete overlap with Scottie, even if functionally Queen and CMB do similar things, again one can play C (at least occasionally at worst) and I personally believe Queen is the more dynamic scorer of the two that I think we'll see that bare true once they reach the NBA but ofc neither of us can say we're right just yet lol it will be fun to see how each guy pans out.

If CMB is tall and long enough to play PF / C, there certainly can be a lot more discussion on him being picked higher. The biggest concern for CMB is that his offense may not transition well to the NBA. He is more in the discussion with Asa Newell on having some kind of self creation at their position, particularly, if Newell shows his jump shot like in the 2024 Hoop Summit game.

Queen is ahead, because most people believe his self creation will transition, particularly, his tight handle who can bring the ball over against guards. His defense is an issue, but how many offensive PF/C can shoot and drive skill that he needs to guard?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[Yallbecrazy]

All this Queen talk, can someone please tell me why Queen is a better prospect than CMB? CMB is a similar rebounder and shooter, better passer, more mobile, much better defender, better interior scorer. Only thing is Queen is 3 inches taller, but given reported wingspans (reported 3 inches longer than Queen's) he probably is only 1 inch taller from a functional perspective.

Is it just a height thing? Because he's taller he fits more of a traditional centre role?

CMB had better stats nearly across the board despite playing on a worse team and against better competition while also being 6 months younger.

I think it's gonna be a personal preference of a more defensive or offensive oriented player...and yes some added size because with Queen there's more likely possibility that he can play C or at least more of it than CMB. But if you're gonna classify him as a "similar rebounder and shooter" likewise you should do so for Queen with his passing as the discrepancy in rebounding (0.7+ for Queen) and assists (0.4% for CMB) are roughly the same (actually Queen's rebounding is greater) so it seems a little convenient to claim conclusively one is "better" for a lower discrepancy but "similar" for a greater one. Ironically though on the defensive end Queen is averaging 1bpg/1spg and CMB 1.5bpg/1.3spg so on paper defensively doesn't look to be "much" better but of course I would give CMB the edge because that is his calling card.

I know people don't love the "eye test" and that's fine but I just think Queen has a lot more tricks and ways that he scores (and I don't agree that CMB is the better interior scorer). I also like that Queen is on the higher end of 70+% from the FT line vs the low end like CMB (who was actually under that the previous year) for projecting out a 3pt shot. Overall they have very similar production so I get your push back as obv you're prob the biggest CMB supporter there is on this board. Again I think it's just gonna be preference, you can try to make whatever argument you like to make but I'm leaving it at we'll just see who turns out better in the pros....and don't get me wrong I like CMB but he is a forward that I don't see being able to play any C and as such there would be complete overlap with Scottie, even if functionally Queen and CMB do similar things, again one can play C (at least occasionally at worst) and I personally believe Queen is the more dynamic scorer of the two that I think we'll see that bare true once they reach the NBA but ofc neither of us can say we're right just yet lol it will be fun to see how each guy pans out.

Thanks for the response. Queen had a 55.8% 2pt fg percentage vs CMB's 62.2% against better defenses on a similar usage so I see him as a better interior scorer and by a fairly large margin.
2.5 assists per 40 vs 3.1 per 40 for CMB and 3.1 vs 3.2 turnovers while CMB had no spacing and constant double teams as his teammates were terrible also shows a better playmaker to me. CMB also had a much better assist to turnover ratio as a freshmen when he had spacing and also improved his assist to turnovers a lot as a sophomore later in the year as he adapted to the double teams and lack of spacing despite facing tougher defenses. The rebounding numbers are splitting hairs.

As a centre I think CMB is better, but he also has more positional versatility too.

[Indeed]

You indeed would be mistaken, Khaman is playing right away for us, and it's not like we're asking him to do a lot for us yr 1. We are asking him to do things he already does well, set screens, roll hard, catch lobs, and be 7'2 and mobile

He is going to get fouled out in 5 mins or less.
He wasn't better than Chomche last year against the USA team in the Nike Hoop Summit, and you think he can play in the NBA right away? You must be dreaming.

He is not going to foul out in 5 minutes. Theres literally footage of him guarding every position all year long at Duke.If there was ever a 7'2 Center that can guard on the perimeter its Khaman Maluach.

I don't believe he is way ahead of Chomche next year, where Chomche was out performing him in last year Nike Hoop Summit.
And he wasn't ahead of JT Thor in minutes at the Olympic games last year, I doubt he is now way better than Thor to play any meaningful minutes at NBA.

When compare to G-League players (JT Thor and Chomche), Maluach does not show he is anything better.

[Jcity08]

Read on Twitter

Maryland colours already kinda look like Raptors. Its a sign.



Seriously though if we're drafting in the 7-9 range and he's available, I wouldnt be mad if we draft him.

[Raptors Realtor]

Not sure how I feel about it but random somewhat tempting idea....draft Queen, trade RJ, Dick & Poeltl couple of picks for KD

IQ/Shead
Ingram/JaKobe/Battle
Barnes/Ochai/Lawson
Durant/Boucher/Mogbo
Queen/Chomche/POR pick (Markovic?)

Call me crazy I think that team could compete lol obv doubtful KD ok's the trade (but who knows?), also of course this is completely microwaving the "rebuild" that would mean we only get a handful of fun/great seasons but just a thought...if not KD, surely we can turn that trade package into some sort of floor spacing star.

The offer seems steep to me for a 37 year old Durant at this stage in his career. Don't think he's worth 2 legit starters & 3 1sts, especially considering I think he's lucky to be healthy and play 3/4 of the season. I think if we're consolidating starters + picks we need to get a younger & healthier player.

Not that it makes a huge difference but I said couple as in 2 picks which I figured if it's within the same 3 year span then they're likely late 1sts anyways with that lineup and yeah I think even at this age KD can command a couple of starters & couple of picks (which is pretty much half what they paid) which I think will be part of the goal of PHX to remain somewhat competitive to keep Booker happy. Maybe take Gradey out but KD is still putting up 27ppg when you couple that with BI, that's a helluva potent scoring duo while the other 2 guys are great facilitators that can get their own bucket (esp Queen). I honestly think that team could actually push to contend in that window BUT like I said I'm not sure how I feel about it because it's microwaving the process and only would give us a handful of years to enjoy it but nonetheless fun.

But of course I agree with finding a young star...I don't really see one on the horizon that fits that bill. Maybe Giannis but the entire league will be going on a bidding war for him and one of the strongest ones could/should be the Spurs. Personally I'm not sold that Booker would put us over the top but I feel like it would need to it would need to be either a big wing or big PG post draft when I'm fairly confident we draft a C. Anyways it was more a random thought than a serious suggestion. Hopefully we can find a star package to strike on with RJ, Dick and Poeltl not too far down the line before all those contracts come due...

Ya my bad, I probably should have clarified, I lumped Gradey into the 1st round picks since he's only 2 years removed.

I agree, it's not going to be easy to consolidate players & picks into a youngish needle mover in today's nba.