2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[PhilBlackson]

At this point Lively has gotten overrated being projected in 10-13 range. He's getting bumped up the rankings because of position scarcity. Smart GMs will pass and trade for need instead.

Spoiler:

Not to ambush ya lol because I know a lot of posters have already responded to this but I'd have to agree with them, I don't think he's being overrated in that range either because once you get out of the top 5 or so of most drafts, typically you're not expecting a star player (still hopeful) and once you're out of the top 10 typically you'd be happy with just a high level starter ie/ like most of our starting line up lol

I think Lively at the height of his potential will have a similar "impact" on his team like Cason, Dick etc. They're guys who you can definitely see them helping a team win by being excellent at their role. But generally I think in the 10-15 range teams are either hoping someone slid in the draft to them, take a flyer on upside or pick a player with a high floor that they think can help their team win. Lively fits that last category.

He's very quick, athletic & strong for a guy his size and he's showing a great ability to anchor a defence and read what's happening on the court. Yes the league is mainly about shooting (which he shows signs of) but we seen with prime Gobert there will always be a place for 1 dimensional rim protector and it's nothing to sneeze at because when Rudy was quicker, his impact on their defence/team was immense and Lively's feet are much quicker so he projects to handle perimeter defence better. I'm not saying he'll be quite the level of rim protector Rudy was, he still has the potential to be one of the best rim protectors in the league and if he can continue to clean up his shooting maybe you can hope to make him into a poorboy's Brook Lopez (because DL simply doesn't have a post game like Brook). But look how much prime Rudy helped Mitchell to make Utah a 50+W year in & year out...I think SGA is at Donovan's level, now you throw in Williams, Giddey & Chet -- those 3 potential absolutely SMOKE what Mitchell had around him imo so that to me can have the makings of a DAMN good team in about 2-3 years.

BUUUT Presti loves him some Long Boi with upside so I'm still hating that he's THE worst GM possible to have ahead of us in the draft.

I'd still go for upside in that range. OKC has cap room and should sign Poeltl at a slight overpay. That would be a more ideal scenario. If I'm Poeltl, and can read the writing on the wall, I 100% bail and go to a better situation. But it takes two to make a deal happen. There are a lot of potential options on the table.

Oh I'm with you on that & I do think that is the more likely route they'll go which kinda ties in Jadoogar's take of pursuing Brook which is an even better option than Yak, I'm merely addressing the principle of Lively being "overrated" in that range and especially in his fit with OKC's roster, it could/would be completely justifiable - nothing overrated about taking a guy who can anchor your defence and potentially stretch the floor long term.

BUUUT yes I'm with that I would AND I do think Presti WILL elect to go more with the upside pick which is why it continues to infuriate me that we made that damn Play In push because it already cost us at minimum a shot at one of Ausar, Whitmore, Black or Walker, could have had a better chance at Vic, Scoot, Miller and now may be the final kick to the nuts and OKC drafts Bilal just before us. Only seems a fitting end really. Facepalm.

[mademan]

Chet might end up being a center later in his career but at this point, he will absolutely start at PF. He's very thin, i wouldn't subject him to too much punishment right away. I like what Cavs have done with Mobley by pairing him with Allen until he grows into his body a bit more.

However, i don't a rookie center is the solution for OKC. I think they chase a center in free agency or trade. Like Brook Lopez would be a pretty good fit for them, veteran player that they could get on short term, big money contract.

Why would wouldn't they secure a C for the first 7-8 years of Chet's career?!
.

They very well might.
I'm just thinking that OKC might think they're good. They were very close to making the playoffs. Getting another veteran with SGA and Giddey improving might actually propel them into the lower half of the playoffs. Having essentially 2 rookies in your starting lineup will result in a terrible defense. If they were more in the rebuilding stage i would say go for it but i think SGA is just too good for that at this point. A lineup of Giddey/SGA/Jwill/Chet/Veteran C is a legit playoff team imo.

True. They made the play in this year and theyre looking to move forward next season. Very difficult to do that starting a rookie FC

[HumbleRen]

I can see OKC overpaying for Brook Lopez on a short term deal.

[Rapsfan07]

Hard to see Presti taking Lively when im not sure if they know what position Chet is gonna play. Is he a PF? A C? Can they play together? Or are you spending a lotto pick on someone who cant play beside your 2nd pick last year?

Oh there's no question, Chet will be a PF (period).

He's simply too thin (and potentially injury probe) to handle the pounding at C, ask AD who is MUCH stronger than him...and why wouldn't they be able to play together?! lol Chet's whole thing is being a perimeter player that's in a tallboy body so offensively it's a non-issue while defensively they have potential to be one of the best damn defensive duos in the league ala Mobley/Allen, except Chet is more skilled than Mobley with a better jumper.

Yep. Even since last year I never thought for a second that Chet was a C. IMO, he's very clearly a PF. I think him and Lively could be absolutely special together.

I can't see OKC going with a guard here. They have Giddey, Shai, Dort & Williams. I think they go SF (either trade up, trade down or take L. Miller or Coulibaly) or take Lively.

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Pascal to HOU for 4th and one of Green or Smith Jr.

theres no way they give up 4 and green, its green and filler or 4 and maaaybe smith

#4, Tari Eason, KJ Martin, 2 future 1sts (Brooklyn 2024 & 2026), 2 future 2nds

[Rapsfan07]

Sidy Cissoko is not being taken in the lottery. lol.

Absolutely not.

Not sure how people got there.

[PhilBlackson]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Pascal to HOU for 4th and one of Green or Smith Jr.

theres no way they give up 4 and green, its green and filler or 4 and maaaybe smith

I'd still do either deal lol although I don't agree it would just be filler with Green, I'm confident they'd probably be able to get HOU to attach another solid young piece ie/ Eason. The package has to be comparable to 3 (Scoot) + Simons.

Scoot by most people's accounts is projected to be as good or better than Green and you can say what you want about Simons but I've already read ORL would take him for the 11th, so there's needs to be something to even out that type of value and Amen is just too raw of a prospect to trust he can reach either of Scoot or Green's projected upside, so they'd have to compensate with a better young player if Green isn't involved.

[Rapsfan07]

I'm still ironing this out and changing my mind on a lot of stuff so here are some modifications namely based on some issues Barlowe brought up about Hendricks, looking deeper into Ausar's game and Lively growing on me like crazy. It's also gotten to a point where Bufkin and Coulibaly's games just look a lot better than guys like Dick, Black and Ausar to me so I have to go against the grain:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Cameron Whitmore
4. Cason Wallace
5. Dereck Lively II
6. Kobe Bufkin
7. Bilal Coulibaly
8. Amen Thompson
9. Brandon Miller
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Brandin Podziemski
12. Marcus Sasser
13. Gradey Dick
14. Jarace Walker
15. Ausar Thompson
16. Anthony Black
17. Amari Bailey
18. Leonard Miller
19. Olivier Maxence-Prosper
20. Trayce Jackson-Davis

Feels like I have Lively more where I want him and it reflects how much I believe in Bufkin and Black down to my initial thoughts about him where as good as he looks especially at that size the erratic decision making and poor shooting will be a struggle to overcome.

Very, very interesting big board. I like Prosper as well...Bailey I need to do more research on but from what I've seen, I think he has a chance as well. Interesting that you don't have NSJ in your top 20 and you have Lively over Bufkin and Coulibaly over Amen.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I'm still ironing this out and changing my mind on a lot of stuff so here are some modifications namely based on some issues Barlowe brought up about Hendricks, looking deeper into Ausar's game and Lively growing on me like crazy. It's also gotten to a point where Bufkin and Coulibaly's games just look a lot better than guys like Dick, Black and Ausar to me so I have to go against the grain:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Cameron Whitmore
4. Cason Wallace
5. Dereck Lively II
6. Kobe Bufkin
7. Bilal Coulibaly
8. Amen Thompson
9. Brandon Miller
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Brandin Podziemski
12. Marcus Sasser
13. Gradey Dick
14. Jarace Walker
15. Ausar Thompson
16. Anthony Black
17. Amari Bailey
18. Leonard Miller
19. Olivier Maxence-Prosper
20. Trayce Jackson-Davis

Feels like I have Lively more where I want him and it reflects how much I believe in Bufkin and Black down to my initial thoughts about him where as good as he looks especially at that size the erratic decision making and poor shooting will be a struggle to overcome.

Very, very interesting big board. I like Prosper as well...Bailey I need to do more research on but from what I've seen, I think he has a chance as well. Interesting that you don't have NSJ in your top 20 and you have Lively over Bufkin and Coulibaly over Amen.

Just trying to iron out my ideas posting this, as I absorb more information heading towards draft day it'll change a bit.

Brandon Miller is a tough evaluation. I might bump him a bit higher but overall at this point I'm not sold on his ability to become a "Paul George" or "Jayson Tatum" and I see him hovering between 2nd and 3rd option. His performance against good teams and in the tournament is a small red flag. The 3 point shooting and rebounding is real. The other aspects of his game are all up for debate in terms of how he'll translate. He's an NBA player. How good is the question. Danny Granger is the best one out of all the comparisons IMO.

[Rapsfan07]

I'm still ironing this out and changing my mind on a lot of stuff so here are some modifications namely based on some issues Barlowe brought up about Hendricks, looking deeper into Ausar's game and Lively growing on me like crazy. It's also gotten to a point where Bufkin and Coulibaly's games just look a lot better than guys like Dick, Black and Ausar to me so I have to go against the grain:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Cameron Whitmore
4. Cason Wallace
5. Dereck Lively II
6. Kobe Bufkin
7. Bilal Coulibaly
8. Amen Thompson
9. Brandon Miller
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Brandin Podziemski
12. Marcus Sasser
13. Gradey Dick
14. Jarace Walker
15. Ausar Thompson
16. Anthony Black
17. Amari Bailey
18. Leonard Miller
19. Olivier Maxence-Prosper
20. Trayce Jackson-Davis

Feels like I have Lively more where I want him and it reflects how much I believe in Bufkin and Black down to my initial thoughts about him where as good as he looks especially at that size the erratic decision making and poor shooting will be a struggle to overcome.

Very, very interesting big board. I like Prosper as well...Bailey I need to do more research on but from what I've seen, I think he has a chance as well. Interesting that you don't have NSJ in your top 20 and you have Lively over Bufkin and Coulibaly over Amen.

Just trying to iron out my ideas posting this, as I absorb more information heading towards draft day it'll change a bit.

Brandon Miller is a tough evaluation. I might bump him a bit higher but overall at this point I'm not sold on his ability to become a "Paul George" or "Jayson Tatum" and I see him hovering between 2nd and 3rd option. His performance against good teams and in the tournament is a small red flag. The 3 point shooting and rebounding is real. The other aspects of his game are all up for debate in terms of how he'll translate. He's an NBA player. How good is the question. Danny Granger is the best one out of all the comparisons IMO.

I agree. I've made the Granger comparison from the beginning and I think he's much closer to that than Paul George. Still, Granger was a really good player and that's still worth a Top 5 pick in pretty much any draft.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Very, very interesting big board. I like Prosper as well...Bailey I need to do more research on but from what I've seen, I think he has a chance as well. Interesting that you don't have NSJ in your top 20 and you have Lively over Bufkin and Coulibaly over Amen.

Just trying to iron out my ideas posting this, as I absorb more information heading towards draft day it'll change a bit.

Brandon Miller is a tough evaluation. I might bump him a bit higher but overall at this point I'm not sold on his ability to become a "Paul George" or "Jayson Tatum" and I see him hovering between 2nd and 3rd option. His performance against good teams and in the tournament is a small red flag. The 3 point shooting and rebounding is real. The other aspects of his game are all up for debate in terms of how he'll translate. He's an NBA player. How good is the question. Danny Granger is the best one out of all the comparisons IMO.

I agree. I've made the Granger comparison from the beginning and I think he's much closer to that than Paul George. Still, Granger was a really good player and that's still worth a Top 5 pick in pretty much any draft.

I'd say it's worth it if you expect Miller to play like absolute peak Granger for many years in the league so those are three conditions which if met I'd agree (that he ends up like Granger, that he reaches Granger's peak gameplay and that he does it for many years - which Granger himself didn't).

[Bruin]

I feel Brandon Miller is more like Khris Middleton than Paul George

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[BoyzNTheHood]

The Blazers might not be moving the pick after all

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[ItsDanger]

JRoy vindicated?

[MainEvent]

Watch on YouTube

game 3

[Dalek]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Sidy rocking the Lamelo's maybe a sign he goes to Charlotte

Seriously, what is with these 18/19 year old kids looking like Jimmy Butler? Sidy and Scoot look physically ready to play in the NBA.

[bboyskinnylegs]

The Blazers might not be moving the pick after all

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

watch him buy an even bigger house there just to spite ppl. I wonder which team is willing to give up the value and salary needed to move him. Maybe the Sixers since Harden is leaving?

[grant101]

If it's going to be Coulibaly (a decision I support when it comes down to it), I really hope we look to secure a second pick later in the first to pick up someone like Sasser.

That would make for the perfect yin & yang draft. It would also take pressure off of Bilal his first year or so (this fanbase can be annoyingly impatient), as I suspect Sasser will be a very useful rotation piece right off the bat and his shooting will be like water in the desert for this squad.

[BoyzNTheHood]

The Blazers might not be moving the pick after all

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

watch him buy an even bigger house there just to spite ppl. I wonder which team is willing to give up the value and salary needed to move him. Maybe the Sixers since Harden is leaving?

I don’t know if Philly has the assets to get it done. They’d have to attach Tobias Harris which is a negative asset as well.