Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[Shwaguy]

Who is out there to actually buy Poeltl?

Magic, Grizzlies, Lakers, Warriors?

To me that seems to be it.

Those come to mind. Don't even think the Magic would do it.

More might open up in the offseason as well. Grizzlies unlikely to give up a lot I think they value Edey long term beyond the next couple of seasons.

Yeah I proposed Magic on the T&T board and they brought up if Poeltl moves the needle for them vs Goga/Mo. I think he does but they disagree. At least not to the point where they attach something of value.

Warriors have been notoriously stingy and not willing to match value and do the Lakers have anything to offer?

To me you don't deal Poeltl for pennies JUST to tank. That doesn't make sense to me.

Magic fans are head over heels in love with Goga so that does not surprise me.

Agreed though, imo they need at least a similar return for Jak as they gave up for him. I'll accept more reasonable lotto protections. His value hasn't gone down since the trade.

[Duffman100]

Those come to mind. Don't even think the Magic would do it.

More might open up in the offseason as well. Grizzlies unlikely to give up a lot I think they value Edey long term beyond the next couple of seasons.

Yeah I proposed Magic on the T&T board and they brought up if Poeltl moves the needle for them vs Goga/Mo. I think he does but they disagree. At least not to the point where they attach something of value.

Warriors have been notoriously stingy and not willing to match value and do the Lakers have anything to offer?

To me you don't deal Poeltl for pennies JUST to tank. That doesn't make sense to me.

Magic fans are head over heels in love with Goga so that does not surprise me.

Agreed though, imo they need at least a similar return for Jak as they gave up for him. I'll accept more reasonable lotto protections. His value hasn't gone down since the trade.

Save a few really good posters, the Magic generally have a really irrational GB presence

[Tripod]

Who is out there to actually buy Poeltl?

Magic, Grizzlies, Lakers, Warriors?

To me that seems to be it.

Those come to mind. Don't even think the Magic would do it.

More might open up in the offseason as well. Grizzlies unlikely to give up a lot I think they value Edey long term beyond the next couple of seasons.

Yeah I proposed Magic on the T&T board and they brought up if Poeltl moves the needle for them vs Goga/Mo. I think he does but they disagree. At least not to the point where they attach something of value.

Warriors have been notoriously stingy and not willing to match value and do the Lakers have anything to offer?

To me you don't deal Poeltl for pennies JUST to tank. That doesn't make sense to me.

I think based on what he sees with this tram this year, he can see the direction and he is going to re-sign

[SFour]

So we've gone 5-14 to start the year, and you expect us to play at minimum 26-36, which is a .426 win rate. We barely managed that win rate over a full season with a very healthy lineup of FVV/OG/Scottie/Siakam, but you think this lineup can manage it?

I applaud the optimism, but you might want to take a gander at the schedule for rest of the year.

Still questioning my math?

Yup, beating a couple bad teams is not like it wasn't already expected.

Half the league are "bad teams', and most of the east except for 4-5 teams.

[bballsparkin]

Who is out there to actually buy Poeltl?

Magic, Grizzlies, Lakers, Warriors?

To me that seems to be it.

If the Grizz traded Edey plus for Jakob that idea got me thinking that Edey would foul out so fast on our team haha

[dohboy_24]

East Play-in teams this season will still be in the top 10 in lotto odds. It's really not such a travesty this season due to conference imbalance, winning the play-in would hurt though.

100% agreed.

Last year the Atlanta Hawks finished the season with a record of 36 wins and 46 losses (44% win rate) - good enough for 10th place in the East and a play-in tournament berth.

The lost their play-in game to the Bulls and still wound up with the #1 pick in the draft.

[OakleyDokely]

Attendance at home games has started to finally crack, only 17,741. Still good for most teams but that's lowest in last 2 seasons if I'm not mistaken. Loss of potential business always promotes change.

Anti-tankers lack the patience required to secure a top pick. They want instant gratification which means they want wins right now.

Masai needs to rebuild properly. The headwinds he faces is that some of these other teams aren't very good. The team's W/L is relative to the current competition.

What do you expect Masai to do for them to tank? Trade Scottie? Because he's not injured, and they aren't going to be bottom 5 while he's healthy and playing. They're an above .500 team with him in the lineup.

Saying "Make up an injury" and force him not to play is not an appropriate answer, btw.

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

They have extended injuries. They've been very cautious with everyone, while guys like IQ, Olynyk, Brown are still not in the lineup. They have played the rookies a lot, including 2nd round picks who typically spend most of their first year in the gleague. We can talk about Poeltl all we want, but you'd have to trade or shutdown Barnes to realistically get in the bottom 4-5. As long as he's healthy, the Raps have a chance to beat just about anyone but the very top teams. I nominate you to tell him that he's not allowed to play.

[Pointgod]

East Play-in teams this season will still be in the top 10 in lotto odds. It's really not such a travesty this season due to conference imbalance, winning the play-in would hurt though.

100% agreed.

Last year the Atlanta Hawks finished the season with a record of 36 wins and 46 losses (44% win rate) - good enough for 10th place in the East and a play-in tournament berth.

The lost their play-in game to the Bulls and still wound up with the #1 pick in the draft.

Top 10 in lottery odds isn’t good enough we need to be top 5 or bottom 5.

[PushDaRock]

Attendance at home games has started to finally crack, only 17,741. Still good for most teams but that's lowest in last 2 seasons if I'm not mistaken. Loss of potential business always promotes change.

Anti-tankers lack the patience required to secure a top pick. They want instant gratification which means they want wins right now.

Masai needs to rebuild properly. The headwinds he faces is that some of these other teams aren't very good. The team's W/L is relative to the current competition.

What do you expect Masai to do for them to tank? Trade Scottie? Because he's not injured, and they aren't going to be bottom 5 while he's healthy and playing. They're an above .500 team with him in the lineup.

Saying "Make up an injury" and force him not to play is not an appropriate answer, btw.

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

Extend injuries? What does that even mean? Does it look like we have been rushing guys back?

We have 4 rookies that were all expected to spend significant time in the G League that are instead averaging between 14-17 mpg. How much more can we play them?

[OakleyDokely]

What do you expect Masai to do for them to tank? Trade Scottie? Because he's not injured, and they aren't going to be bottom 5 while he's healthy and playing. They're an above .500 team with him in the lineup.

Saying "Make up an injury" and force him not to play is not an appropriate answer, btw.

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

Extend injuries? What does that even mean? Does it look like we have been rushing guys back?

We have 4 rookies that were all expected to spend significant time in the G League that are instead averaging between 14-17 mpg. How much more can we play them?

I'm sure it's happened, but when was the last time two 2nd rounders on the same team were regular rotation players in their first year? It couldn't have happened much.

[ConSarnit]

What do you expect Masai to do for them to tank? Trade Scottie? Because he's not injured, and they aren't going to be bottom 5 while he's healthy and playing. They're an above .500 team with him in the lineup.

Saying "Make up an injury" and force him not to play is not an appropriate answer, btw.

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

They have extended injuries. They've been very cautious with everyone, while guys like IQ, Olynyk, Brown are still not in the lineup. They have played the rookies a lot, including 2nd round picks who typically spend most of their first year in the gleague. We can talk about Poeltl all we want, but you'd have to trade or shutdown Barnes to realistically get in the bottom 4-5. As long as he's healthy, the Raps have a chance to beat just about anyone but the very top teams. I nominate you to tell him that he's not allowed to play.

We were 4-28 in the games without Poeltl last year. I’m pretty sure we have the worst def rtg in the league when Poeltl isn’t on the floor. This thing could fall apart fast without Poeltl.

[OakleyDokely]

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

They have extended injuries. They've been very cautious with everyone, while guys like IQ, Olynyk, Brown are still not in the lineup. They have played the rookies a lot, including 2nd round picks who typically spend most of their first year in the gleague. We can talk about Poeltl all we want, but you'd have to trade or shutdown Barnes to realistically get in the bottom 4-5. As long as he's healthy, the Raps have a chance to beat just about anyone but the very top teams. I nominate you to tell him that he's not allowed to play.

We were 4-28 in the games without Poeltl last year. I’m pretty sure we have the worst def rtg in the league when Poeltl isn’t on the floor. This thing could fall apart fast without Poeltl.

This team has a lot more depth and they fight a lot harder than last years team though. I'd move Poeltl for the right deal, but I think Barnes is the key to whether this team is tank level bad. If he's out or isn't playing well, they aren't winning much. If he's playing like last night, the Raps will win more games than expected.

[ConSarnit]

They have extended injuries. They've been very cautious with everyone, while guys like IQ, Olynyk, Brown are still not in the lineup. They have played the rookies a lot, including 2nd round picks who typically spend most of their first year in the gleague. We can talk about Poeltl all we want, but you'd have to trade or shutdown Barnes to realistically get in the bottom 4-5. As long as he's healthy, the Raps have a chance to beat just about anyone but the very top teams. I nominate you to tell him that he's not allowed to play.

We were 4-28 in the games without Poeltl last year. I’m pretty sure we have the worst def rtg in the league when Poeltl isn’t on the floor. This thing could fall apart fast without Poeltl.

This team has a lot more depth and they fight a lot harder than last years team though. I'd move Poeltl for the right deal, but I think Barnes is the key to whether this team is tank level bad.

I think if we move Poeltl that's a pretty clear sign that we're tanking and the effort level probably drops (though maybe not that much considering we have a lot of young guys). We'd definitely see an uptick in Malik Williams/Gueye-type minutes.

Imo the only two things holding this team together are Barnes and Poeltl. Remove one of them and it creates a giant hole we cannot fill (Barnes on offense and Poeltl anchoring the defense).

[OakleyDokely]

We were 4-28 in the games without Poeltl last year. I’m pretty sure we have the worst def rtg in the league when Poeltl isn’t on the floor. This thing could fall apart fast without Poeltl.

This team has a lot more depth and they fight a lot harder than last years team though. I'd move Poeltl for the right deal, but I think Barnes is the key to whether this team is tank level bad.

I think if we move Poeltl that's a pretty clear sign that we're tanking and the effort level probably drops (though maybe not that much considering we have a lot of young guys). We'd definitely see an uptick in Malik Williams/Gueye-type minutes.

Imo the only two things holding this team together are Barnes and Poeltl. Remove one of them and it creates a giant hole we cannot fill (Barnes on offense and Poeltl anchoring the defense).

C's are hard to deal, that's the problem. Most teams only spend big money on one traditional big (guy who can only play one position). It's tough to come up with many teams who'd want to spend 20 mill on a C and who'd give up assets. It's probably more likely he gets injured than traded.

[ItsDanger]

What do you expect Masai to do for them to tank? Trade Scottie? Because he's not injured, and they aren't going to be bottom 5 while he's healthy and playing. They're an above .500 team with him in the lineup.

Saying "Make up an injury" and force him not to play is not an appropriate answer, btw.

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

Extend injuries? What does that even mean? Does it look like we have been rushing guys back?

We have 4 rookies that were all expected to spend significant time in the G League that are instead averaging between 14-17 mpg. How much more can we play them?

Instead of 10-14 days, extend recovery to 3+ weeks. Instead of 3 weeks, extend to 4-5 weeks. And so on.

[PushDaRock]

Trade Poeltl, extend injuries, play rookies more. Options are definitely limited at this point.

Extend injuries? What does that even mean? Does it look like we have been rushing guys back?

We have 4 rookies that were all expected to spend significant time in the G League that are instead averaging between 14-17 mpg. How much more can we play them?

Instead of 10-14 days, extend recovery to 3+ weeks. Instead of 3 weeks, extend to 4-5 weeks. And so on.

Why stop there? Make it season ending for all of them.

[ConSarnit]

This team has a lot more depth and they fight a lot harder than last years team though. I'd move Poeltl for the right deal, but I think Barnes is the key to whether this team is tank level bad.

I think if we move Poeltl that's a pretty clear sign that we're tanking and the effort level probably drops (though maybe not that much considering we have a lot of young guys). We'd definitely see an uptick in Malik Williams/Gueye-type minutes.

Imo the only two things holding this team together are Barnes and Poeltl. Remove one of them and it creates a giant hole we cannot fill (Barnes on offense and Poeltl anchoring the defense).

C's are hard to deal, that's the problem. Most teams only spend big money on one traditional big (guy who can only play one position). It's tough to come up with many teams who'd want to spend 20 mill on a C and who'd give up assets. It's probably more likely he gets injured than traded.

I've been on the "Poeltl won't be easy to trade" train for a while. The vast majority of teams already have a C that they can talk themselves into being better than or equal to Poeltl. And as you said, most teams don't want to spend $20m for a positionally locked backup C. Teams that could really use Poeltl won't want him because they're in the tank (CHA, NOP, WAS) and some teams that could use an upgrade don't have any assets (PHX). There aren't a lot of great suitors for Poeltl at the moment. NOP was a clear trade partner and their season has gone off the rails.

[ItsDanger]

Extend injuries? What does that even mean? Does it look like we have been rushing guys back?

We have 4 rookies that were all expected to spend significant time in the G League that are instead averaging between 14-17 mpg. How much more can we play them?

Instead of 10-14 days, extend recovery to 3+ weeks. Instead of 3 weeks, extend to 4-5 weeks. And so on.

Why stop there? Make it season ending for all of them.

Some people adhere to a professional code of ethics. Others do not.

[OakleyDokely]

I think if we move Poeltl that's a pretty clear sign that we're tanking and the effort level probably drops (though maybe not that much considering we have a lot of young guys). We'd definitely see an uptick in Malik Williams/Gueye-type minutes.

Imo the only two things holding this team together are Barnes and Poeltl. Remove one of them and it creates a giant hole we cannot fill (Barnes on offense and Poeltl anchoring the defense).

C's are hard to deal, that's the problem. Most teams only spend big money on one traditional big (guy who can only play one position). It's tough to come up with many teams who'd want to spend 20 mill on a C and who'd give up assets. It's probably more likely he gets injured than traded.

I've been on the "Poeltl won't be easy to trade" train for a while. The vast majority of teams already have a C that they can talk themselves into being better than or equal to Poeltl. And as you said, most teams don't want to spend $20m for a positionally locked backup C. Teams that could really use Poeltl won't want him because they're in the tank (CHA, NOP, WAS) and some teams that could use an upgrade don't have any assets (PHX). There aren't a lot of great suitors for Poeltl at the moment. NOP was a clear trade partner and their season has gone off the rails.

I always like to look at the up and coming teams wanting to make a push for the playoff-in or a top 6 seed because they typically aren't capped out like the contenders and have a bit more flexibility. Teams like the Kings, Spurs, Pistons, Magic, Hawks are sorta in that territory. But how many of those teams need a 20 mill C?

[PushDaRock]

Instead of 10-14 days, extend recovery to 3+ weeks. Instead of 3 weeks, extend to 4-5 weeks. And so on.

Why stop there? Make it season ending for all of them.

Some people adhere to a professional code of ethics. Others do not.

There's nothing really ethical about sitting out fully healthy players for the purpose of losing games whether it's for 1 week or the entire year.

I don't even know how it can even be argued otherwise that this team isn't already being extra cautious on when players return considering Brown and Olynyk haven't played a single minute and IQ playing 60 mins total. Maybe you're upset about Scottie coming back wearing goggles causing us to win games?