Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[JB7]

KD makes more sense on a team missing a piece to contend. He would have a larger impact on the Rockets or TWolves. It makes no sense for the Raps to offer Yak (only legit C Raps have) and RJ (a young wing that can play a key role on the team) for a year or two of KD.

Raps are not ready to contend immediately, especially if they dump their C in the deal.

I would rather them just roll out their current lineup Yak, Barnes, BI, RJ & IQ, and see what it can do first.

Only deal that makes sense is one for Giannis, because he would most likely come with a longer term commitment, but if he is hesitating on his trade demands, most likely he has a team in his sites that can't offer enough right now, and he is waiting to lower the ask from the Bucks.

[canz55]

"If Giannis is available you pay whatever to get him"

- Real GM Raptors board

This is the sentiment of bored, dopamine seeking, endless phone scrolling fans who likely live in their parents basements and don't have the time for anything. They don't care about basketball development or the intricacies of club management when it comes to long term decision making. It's really just low level IQ fandom from people who cant hold a conversation in a normal setting because they probably have some undiagnosed ADD.

[JB7]

KD+Ingram+Barnes+IQ would be quite the qroup. Who knows if it would work, but it would be fun to find out.

The biggest winner here? Ingram. He would cook with the attention KD would get.

Would it work for BI? Seems to me there would just be a lot of overlap in the skill set. I would think BI's game would take a back seat to KD.

I would rather the team just let BI try the role out on his own first.

[WuTang_CMB]

KD+Ingram+Barnes+IQ would be quite the qroup. Who knows if it would work, but it would be fun to find out.

The biggest winner here? Ingram. He would cook with the attention KD would get.

Would it work for BI? Seems to me there would just be a lot of overlap in the skill set. I would think BI's game would take a back seat to KD.

I would rather the team just let BI try the role out on his own first.

They both are 3 level scores that can dribble, pass, shoot. I wouldn't overthink it when they are in a group of the most talented offensive wings in the NBA.

[Asif16]

Doesn't work. PHX would be over by $5M .. and they cant aggregate.

In the RJ/JP deal they would actually save $7.5M

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification on that.

Yeah, in terms of Phoenix getting back a legit center in this deal, options become limited. Unless they like Naz Reid? Also I dont know how Phoenix views Jabari Smith Jr.

He's a FA, i think he opts out, I don't think you can S&T either if you are in the 2nd apron

Yeah, it's limited for sure

Houston isn't even offering FVV or a centre .. and they want to keep those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode (right move) and PHX is all in on keeping Booker

The only team is San Antonio because looks like KD would go there but to be honest, the West is such a blood bath that it's going to take a lot more thinking to do it then say Toronto cuz East is wide open.

San Antonio doesn't have the center requirments needed either. Only draft capital and Devin Vassel im assuming.

Miami and Detroit are two other teams I can think of the east. 3 way deal with PHX/Miami/Portland? Wiggins and Robert Williams to Phoenix maybe I dont know.

Detroit is interesting if they offer up Duren, though I dont think that's truly realistic.

[Godaddycurse]

The biggest winner here? Ingram. He would cook with the attention KD would get.

Would it work for BI? Seems to me there would just be a lot of overlap in the skill set. I would think BI's game would take a back seat to KD.

I would rather the team just let BI try the role out on his own first.

They both are 3 level scores that can dribble, pass, shoot. I wouldn't overthink it when they are in a group of the most talented offensive wings in the NBA.

how did it work out for Phoenix?

[hyper316]

The biggest winner here? Ingram. He would cook with the attention KD would get.

Would it work for BI? Seems to me there would just be a lot of overlap in the skill set. I would think BI's game would take a back seat to KD.

I would rather the team just let BI try the role out on his own first.

They both are 3 level scores that can dribble, pass, shoot. I wouldn't overthink it when they are in a group of the most talented offensive wings in the NBA.

KD, Booker, Beal all 3 level scorers that can dribble, pass, shoot.

[TorontoBarneys]

Thoughts on going after Markannen? He's in his prime, locked up on a nice contract and he would be cheaper than than Giannis for sure and we could possibly retain #9.

Markannen/Maluach would be an interesting frontcourt. Then you have more room to deal Poeltl/RJ etc. after, if you need to.

[hyper316]

Thoughts on going after Markannen? He's in his prime, locked up on a nice contract and he would be cheaper than than Giannis for sure and we could possibly retain #9.

Markannen/Maluach would be an interesting frontcourt. Then you have more room to deal Poeltl/RJ etc. after, if you need to.

Dealing with Danny Ainge, not sure if cheaper honestly

[redraptor77]

Thoughts on going after Markannen? He's in his prime, locked up on a nice contract and he would be cheaper than than Giannis for sure and we could possibly retain #9.

Markannen/Maluach would be an interesting frontcourt. Then you have more room to deal Poeltl/RJ etc. after, if you need to.

I like him
He would fit well with Barnes and BI
Not sure if Utah would take RJ Dick and filler ??

[WuTang_CMB]

Would it work for BI? Seems to me there would just be a lot of overlap in the skill set. I would think BI's game would take a back seat to KD.

I would rather the team just let BI try the role out on his own first.

They both are 3 level scores that can dribble, pass, shoot. I wouldn't overthink it when they are in a group of the most talented offensive wings in the NBA.

KD, Booker, Beal all 3 level scorers that can dribble, pass, shoot.

Beal? Lol.

I wouldn't compare Toronto vs PHX in any scenario. The reason why PHX didn't win wasn't because of Booker/KD, it was because they had zero defense and depth. They weren't a team.

[mihaic]

Over the last 2 years, KD played 75 and 62 games, which is more than a lot of other younger stars.

Last season, he put up 26 PPG on shooting splits of 53/43/84 and a 64 TS%. He's still one the very best offensive players.

If you can get him and keep your core intact, that's a big win because you're likely getting a legit #1 option who will play around 65 games.

He's a rental though, with only a year left on his deal so a lot will depend on the cost to acquire him.

Reality is that no one (especially realgm posters) really knows how many games any player will play in a season.

OG couldn't stay healthy in Toronto, then goes to New York and plays 74 games under the Thibs minute load.

OG is highly acknowledged by this board, but the fact is he stopped trying more than 1 year before his trade, honestly. There were rumours he requested a trade about 1 year before, I think gradually he was less and less interested.

I guess he may have called in sick at the smallest discomfort. He was on his way out.

[tsherkin]

He is a very good player. Stats are there, no doubt about that. However...the Devin Booker experience is still leaving me a bit hollow. This Suns team needed a more vocal leader. We know KD isn't that. Don't even look at Beal. On a team with such great talent but also with so much infighting and locker room drama...I want my best player to lead not only in points and assists...but also to take on a bigger leadership role. Not saying he is the cause of all that was wrong in Phoenix...but I'm hoping for the longest tenured Suns player on the roster and the guy to be making 75 mill/year...that he try to be more vocal and keep that locker room together. I don't that he's that kind of guy.

Ultimately, what you've identified is that health, management concerns and postseason opponent are a barrier to success.

We know Booker isn't a tier-1 guy, but the stuff he's run into has been pretty normal stuff which would affect anyone. There is a threshold of problem accumulation which is insurmountable. And leadership only works if the other people permit themselves to be led. Maybe his personality is the type where he's bringing locker room stuff into the public and the media, you know what I mean?

[OakleyDokely]

They both are 3 level scores that can dribble, pass, shoot. I wouldn't overthink it when they are in a group of the most talented offensive wings in the NBA.

KD, Booker, Beal all 3 level scorers that can dribble, pass, shoot.

Beal? Lol.

I wouldn't compare Toronto vs PHX in any scenario. The reason why PHX didn't win wasn't because of Booker/KD, it was because they had zero defense and depth. They weren't a team.

Ya, the Suns roster construction was terrible. The C position was a blackhole. They had very little depth. Nobody played any defense.

[WuTang_CMB]

[DreamTeam09]

RJ + Jakob + picks for KD makes sense for both sides. I'd give up a future first and keep this 9th pick tho.
Suns want a C, they get RJ who fits the bill as a young 20pt scorer and some future compensation.
KD comes to Toronto out East to compete next year. 3 yr deal which lines up with BI being a FA.

No it doesn't. Our team finally has a legit 5 and we're going to ship him away for a frail veteran that's clearly on the decline. Wouldn't be a wise move

Calling KD a frail veteran maybe technically accurate, but he's also a 26 5 4 player on absurd %s over the last 3 years. He's definitely a needle mover interms of the seriousness of the conversation. If KD is on Toronto tomorrow, everyone is talking about contender status.

And this notion of "KD is better for a team one piece away" or "we are not guaranteed after the trade" is another one of those weak proverbs from the book of "how to build a team OKC according to realgm"
When we traded for kawhi the first time we gave up Jakob. Granted we had JV and Ibaka but we ended up with gasol in the end

If you're making a cherry cake, doesn't matter when you get the cherries, it still goes on the cake regardless at the end.
I'd rather look for some eggs than the cherries if that anonlgy flies

[JB7]

Doesn't work. PHX would be over by $5M .. and they cant aggregate.

In the RJ/JP deal they would actually save $7.5M

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification on that.

Yeah, in terms of Phoenix getting back a legit center in this deal, options become limited. Unless they like Naz Reid? Also I dont know how Phoenix views Jabari Smith Jr.

He's a FA, i think he opts out, I don't think you can S&T either if you are in the 2nd apron

Yeah, it's limited for sure

Houston isn't even offering FVV or a centre .. and they want to keep those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode (right move) and PHX is all in on keeping Booker

The only team is San Antonio because looks like KD would go there but to be honest, the West is such a blood bath that it's going to take a lot more thinking to do it then say Toronto cuz East is wide open.

Houston's offer is probably FVV, Eason, Whitmore, and Phoenix's picks (how many, who knows?)

[WuTang_CMB]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification on that.

Yeah, in terms of Phoenix getting back a legit center in this deal, options become limited. Unless they like Naz Reid? Also I dont know how Phoenix views Jabari Smith Jr.

He's a FA, i think he opts out, I don't think you can S&T either if you are in the 2nd apron

Yeah, it's limited for sure

Houston isn't even offering FVV or a centre .. and they want to keep those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode (right move) and PHX is all in on keeping Booker

The only team is San Antonio because looks like KD would go there but to be honest, the West is such a blood bath that it's going to take a lot more thinking to do it then say Toronto cuz East is wide open.

Houston's offer is probably FVV, Eason, Whitmore, and Phoenix's picks (how many, who knows?)

They have to keep FVV

[JB7]

KD, Booker, Beal all 3 level scorers that can dribble, pass, shoot.

Beal? Lol.

I wouldn't compare Toronto vs PHX in any scenario. The reason why PHX didn't win wasn't because of Booker/KD, it was because they had zero defense and depth. They weren't a team.

Ya, the Suns roster construction was terrible. The C position was a blackhole. They had very little depth. Nobody played any defense.

Ya, but moving the Raps only legit C, and a better fit role player in RJ, to get KD, who's skills overlap with BI, seems like the Raps would be heading down the Suns path.

[JB7]

He's a FA, i think he opts out, I don't think you can S&T either if you are in the 2nd apron

Yeah, it's limited for sure

Houston isn't even offering FVV or a centre .. and they want to keep those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode (right move) and PHX is all in on keeping Booker

The only team is San Antonio because looks like KD would go there but to be honest, the West is such a blood bath that it's going to take a lot more thinking to do it then say Toronto cuz East is wide open.

Houston's offer is probably FVV, Eason, Whitmore, and Phoenix's picks (how many, who knows?)

They have to keep FVV

Why? If they are making a KD trade before the draft, I don't know if they have a lot of options.