Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[OakleyDokely]

The only event nearly all NHL players attend is the Olympics when the entire league is shutdown specifically for that event. Hoooooray. All other tournaments get inconsistent attendance, especially from the stars.

[RandomRaptorfan]

So we're definitely done for when it comes to the world cup, is there a last chance qualifying tournament we'd be eligible for next year?

[Jstock12]

Even without Murray, Team Canada is still good enough to compete for gold if the shots are falling that particular day vs France or USA. Losing Murray is not nearly as important to you guys as losing Porzingis is for Latvia for example.

[TheFutureMM]

I can't fault Murray for this necessarily, but it points up the mistake of not including another NBA guard like Nembhard this summer. Or Mathurin or Sharpe. They were too inflexible with the 3 year commitment thing.

I'm going to buck the trend here and argue in favour of the existing strategy.

Yes, it's important to be flexible, but I'm happy with the approach we took this year. We aren't asking much of the NBA guys with the whole cycle commitment. Show up for a couple of games in Summer before the World Cup. Quite literally 4 games (I bet some of these guys could get away with showing up for 2 aka end of First Round or or start of Second Round).

Next, be around for the World Cup the following summer, help us qualify for the big show aka the Olympics. Then from there show up to the Olympics.

I also like the idea of rewarding end of the bench guys like the Scrubbs, Robertsons, TBHs, Cherrys, etc with shots to make the roster as they are doing a lot of the leg-work to get us into the WC.

The team that we've assembled for this year's WC is the best we've ever had (though an argument can be made for 2015 Argentina). That's due to the effort of everyone committing in 2021/2022. Yes, would I have liked Nembhard, Wiggins, etc to be involved at the WC / Olympics? Absolutely however I don't think it's fair to the guys who sacrificed their summers previously to get us to this point.

[TheFutureMM]

So which two of P. Scrubb, TBH, and Cherry make the team?
And who is the forward cut?

I think we'll know pretty quick based on the rotations in Spain.

Am I crazy in thinking there is an outside chance that Edey doesn't make the team? Didn't get a lot of burn against Germany and didn't look amazing when he did.

I feel very confident that T Scrubb is not making the squad (too much overlap with the other better wings) and that TBH is making the squad (100% need a traditional back-up PG).

That really leaves Edey, P. Scrubb, and Cherry on the chopping block. I think there is an outside chance that they cut Edey if they generally think he's not ready yet and bring the extra guard depth in P. Scrubb / Cherry.

[SharoneWright]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

[DoctaJ]

Sammy Blais in NHL tore his ACL November 2021, 7 months after Jamal did. Had surgery, came back and played full season from October, 2022 onwards. Then played at Worlds in spring helping Canada win gold.

This injury management is something unique to basketball and is just an excuse not to be taken at face value.

What are you on about? He played 71 games in the 2022-2023 season and hasn't played in the playoffs since before his injury - pretty sure. Not even remotely the same as Jamal

[DoctaJ]

Sammy Blais in NHL tore his ACL November 2021, 7 months after Jamal did. Had surgery, came back and played full season from October, 2022 onwards. Then played at Worlds in spring helping Canada win gold.

This injury management is something unique to basketball and is just an excuse not to be taken at face value.

You mean the dude who before this last season, never played more than 40 games in the NHL? And you know, didn't even make the playoffs in his one full season?

I don't know if you could make a worse comparison.

Its an injury, talent isnt as relevant for the recovery. Anders Lee (very good winger for Islanders) tore his ACL, came back and played 6 months later, and everyone forgot about it. Its just a basketball thing to worry about this stuff. It certainly isnt going to be brought up 28 months later like in Murray's case.

Or you know, it's a different sport..

[DoctaJ]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

What exactly is the BS part? You think Jamal doesn't actually want to play for Canada and is using the need/want to recover as an excuse?

What exactly do you know about 26 year old professional basketball players and their need to recover - specific to each individual? Just asking.

[Boselecta]

Pretty much assumed Murray wasn't going to play from the beginning.

I think going forward Canada needs to make an exception for younger players that just got drafted or are in there first or second year. Let them come in and compete for a spot if a injury occurs, to get them into the program. The exception shouldn't apply for older players such as Wiggins though.

[ItsDanger]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

What exactly is the BS part? You think Jamal doesn't actually want to play for Canada and is using the need/want to recover as an excuse?

What exactly do you know about 26 year old professional basketball players and their need to recover - specific to each individual? Just asking.

Its 28 months post surgery, there is no reason for this recovery. More likely Denver is pressuring him not to show up.

Acknowledge the issue and adjust your approach accordingly. Expand the initial roster to include young NBA guys to compensate for these issues like recovery, long season, weddings, recent injuries etc. Its just shortsighted to not do this. I'd add Nembhard and Prosper for next summer at minimum.

[KL78192020]

Pretty much assumed Murray wasn't going to play from the beginning.

I think going forward Canada needs to make an exception for younger players that just got drafted or are in there first or second year. Let them come in and compete for a spot if a injury occurs, to get them into the program. The exception shouldn't apply for older players such as Wiggins though.

Are they not allowed to have an injury replacement?

[SharoneWright]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

What exactly is the BS part? You think Jamal doesn't actually want to play for Canada and is using the need/want to recover as an excuse?

What exactly do you know about 26 year old professional basketball players and their need to recover - specific to each individual? Just asking.

I think he wants to. I think he has too many nervous nellies in his ear and in his corner. He didn't fight a war. He played a few more basketball games last year than RJ did. He'd be out there tomorrow if there was a regular season NBA game. Nugs want to reduce his risk for injury, but it's got nothing to do with last year's playoff run. Shae is exactly at the same risk as Jamaal. All Jamal had to do was put his foot down and say he's gonna play. But he's got too many people making him second guess himself not based in any reality.

[Chalky_White]

I think we all knew deep down that Murray wasnt gonna play this summer but at least its finally official. They went with the offseason recovery reasoning but i think its more about his upcoming extension with Denver. If he plays at least 65 games and makes all-nba he's eligible for the super max. Brian Windhorst, one of the most plugged in guys in the league, mentioned it a couple weeks ago during a discussion on his podcast about extension eligible players.

" Jamal Murray commiting to Canada implied that he made sure he was protected", Windhorst said."

He related it to all the Team USA guys being stable contractually, with the caveat of Josh Hart likely having a wink-wink deal with the Knicks(he did).

So in the end its a win-win for Murray. He comes to camp for a few days and fulfills his obligations as part of the summer core, therefore keeping his place on a possible olympic team and also gets to rest up for a really important season.

We know this is the roster now so onwards and upwards. Hopefully the guys surprise us and make a run getting one of the olympic spots. Fiba did us no favours with the draw.

[C_Money]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

Plus we’ve got Schroder playing for Germany who is apparently still injured from the playoffs.

[DoctaJ]

It’s BS. Somebody needs to tell Murray that a 26 year old doesn’t need months to recover.

What exactly is the BS part? You think Jamal doesn't actually want to play for Canada and is using the need/want to recover as an excuse?

What exactly do you know about 26 year old professional basketball players and their need to recover - specific to each individual? Just asking.

I think he wants to. I think he has too many nervous nellies in his ear and in his corner. He didn't fight a war. He played a few more basketball games last year than RJ did. He'd be out there tomorrow if there was a regular season NBA game. Nugs want to reduce his risk for injury, but it's got nothing to do with last year's playoff run. Shae is exactly at the same risk as Jamaal. All Jamal had to do was put his foot down and say he's gonna play. But he's got too many people making him second guess himself not based in any reality.

So essentially you have no idea what you're talking about?

Jamal played in 65 regular season games and 20 playoff games with his last being on June 12th a season after an ACL injury.

Shai played in 68 regular season games and 0 playoff games with his last being on April 14th after no injury.

So Shai had an extra 2 months off, wasn't coming off a major injury, and played in nearly 20 less (higher stakes/intensity) games. Tell me again how "Shae" is exactly at the same risk as "Jamaal"..

Look, I wish Jamal would have played and I'm sure there is more pressure financially and from the Nuggets to sit out. I wish he would say eff you, I'm playing, too but I get it.

But the way people freak out on these personal decisions are insane and sometimes I think it would better for all of them to say eff you, I'm not playing, because most of us "fans" don't even deserve it, tbh.

Also lol at "he didn't fight a war". It's a f-ing basketball game - none of it actually matters.

[WaltFrazier]

I can't fault Murray for this necessarily, but it points up the mistake of not including another NBA guard like Nembhard this summer. Or Mathurin or Sharpe. They were too inflexible with the 3 year commitment thing.

I'm going to buck the trend here and argue in favour of the existing strategy.

Yes, it's important to be flexible, but I'm happy with the approach we took this year. We aren't asking much of the NBA guys with the whole cycle commitment. Show up for a couple of games in Summer before the World Cup. Quite literally 4 games (I bet some of these guys could get away with showing up for 2 aka end of First Round or or start of Second Round).

Next, be around for the World Cup the following summer, help us qualify for the big show aka the Olympics. Then from there show up to the Olympics.

I also like the idea of rewarding end of the bench guys like the Scrubbs, Robertsons, TBHs, Cherrys, etc with shots to make the roster as they are doing a lot of the leg-work to get us into the WC.

The team that we've assembled for this year's WC is the best we've ever had (though an argument can be made for 2015 Argentina). That's due to the effort of everyone committing in 2021/2022. Yes, would I have liked Nembhard, Wiggins, etc to be involved at the WC / Olympics? Absolutely however I don't think it's fair to the guys who sacrificed their summers previously to get us to this point.

It's a very nice, Canadian way of looking at things, to say let's reward the FIBA guys who hang in there for the program. But a more competitive, highest level of sport way to look at it would be to say let's get more NBA players in there. I respect the guys who play club ball overseas and give of their time, but they are happy to play anytime. Better to have the most talent playing. Especially in the case of Murray opting out and creating a real need at PG.

[SharoneWright]

I can't fault Murray for this necessarily, but it points up the mistake of not including another NBA guard like KU Nembhard this summer. Or Mathurin or Sharpe. They were too inflexible with the 3 year commitment thing.

I'm going to buck the trend here and argue in favour of the existing strategy.

Yes, it's important to be flexible, but I'm happy with the approach we took this year. We aren't asking much of the NBA guys with the whole cycle commitment. Show up for a couple of games in Summer before the World Cup. Quite literally 4 games (I bet some of these guys could get away with showing up for 2 aka end of First Round or or start of Second Round).

Next, be around for the World Cup the following summer, help us qualify for the big show aka the Olympics. Then from there show up to the Olympics.

I also like the idea of rewarding end of the bench guys like the Scrubbs, Robertsons, TBHs, Cherrys, etc with shots to make the roster as they are doing a lot of the leg-work to get us into the WC.

The team that we've assembled for this year's WC is the best we've ever had (though an argument can be made for 2015 Argentina). That's due to the effort of everyone committing in 2021/2022. Yes, would I have liked Nembhard, Wiggins, etc to be involved at the WC / Olympics? Absolutely however I don't think it's fair to the guys who sacrificed their summers previously to get us to this point.

It's a very nice, Canadian way of looking at things, to say let's reward the FIBA guys who hang in there for the program. But a more competitive, highest level of sport way to look at it would be to say let's get more NBA players in there. I respect the guys who play club ball overseas and give of their time, but they are happy to play anytime. Better to have the most talent playing. Especially in the case of Murray opting out and creating a real need at PG.

100%

I think we’ve all played on house league teams, and all played on merit teams.

Is Phil Scrubb going to book our ticket to the Olympics?

[links135]

You mean the dude who before this last season, never played more than 40 games in the NHL? And you know, didn't even make the playoffs in his one full season?

I don't know if you could make a worse comparison.

Its an injury, talent isnt as relevant for the recovery. Anders Lee (very good winger for Islanders) tore his ACL, came back and played 6 months later, and everyone forgot about it. Its just a basketball thing to worry about this stuff. It certainly isnt going to be brought up 28 months later like in Murray's case.

Or you know, it's a different sport..

Isnr he like.... also a 4th line winger? So he plays 10 minutes a game. I doubt that's anywhere near close as the top defenceman playing close to 30 minutes a game going to the stately cup finals.

We don't really need to care about the injury, still, Pavel Bure ring a bell?

You don't hear about this in Hockey because you can't ein the Stanely Cup and play in the world cup in the same year. Nor can you play in the Olympics.

[TheFutureMM]

I'm going to buck the trend here and argue in favour of the existing strategy.

Yes, it's important to be flexible, but I'm happy with the approach we took this year. We aren't asking much of the NBA guys with the whole cycle commitment. Show up for a couple of games in Summer before the World Cup. Quite literally 4 games (I bet some of these guys could get away with showing up for 2 aka end of First Round or or start of Second Round).

Next, be around for the World Cup the following summer, help us qualify for the big show aka the Olympics. Then from there show up to the Olympics.

I also like the idea of rewarding end of the bench guys like the Scrubbs, Robertsons, TBHs, Cherrys, etc with shots to make the roster as they are doing a lot of the leg-work to get us into the WC.

The team that we've assembled for this year's WC is the best we've ever had (though an argument can be made for 2015 Argentina). That's due to the effort of everyone committing in 2021/2022. Yes, would I have liked Nembhard, Wiggins, etc to be involved at the WC / Olympics? Absolutely however I don't think it's fair to the guys who sacrificed their summers previously to get us to this point.

It's a very nice, Canadian way of looking at things, to say let's reward the FIBA guys who hang in there for the program. But a more competitive, highest level of sport way to look at it would be to say let's get more NBA players in there.

Bring your best talent every time. Got it. Have you tried sending this strategy to Rowan to make sure he's considered it?

We've played the game of just asking our best guys to show up for years and it's really gotten us nowhere. Dog **** non-existent culture. Zero identity. I at least respect Canada Basketball for trying to build something here, akin to the Euro programs, that people can look at and go, "wow that's a legit org".

I respect the guys who play club ball overseas and give of their time, but they are happy to play anytime. Better to have the most talent playing. Especially in the case of Murray opting out and creating a real need at PG.

Agree to disagree that some of our better international guys love to take time off from their club teams to randomly go to the Dominican and Argentina for a week to play unpaid basketball, for zero glory, where they risk injury.

I'd be very interested to see how many of our top Euro guys would still be down to roll up to the November/February qualifiers if every subsequent summer the message to them was going to be, "thanks - we're gonna let the other guys take it from here".

100%

I think we’ve all played on house league teams, and all played on merit teams.

Is Phil Scrubb going to book our ticket to the Olympics?

Probably not but at least he showed up.

Read on Twitter

All this talk about getting these NBA guys to come play - the camp in Toronto was open to all Canadian players. The only person to show up outside of the core was Leonard Miller. All these dudes that you wish were playing could easily have shown up to try to be part of the program, put some face time in to be on the list of guys who maybe get the nod for the Olympics, but they didn't show up.