Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[tradejosehesux]

Never change, RGM Raptor board, never change.

[bboyskinnylegs]

I’m more disappointed in the coaching staff. They didn’t even give Barnes the ball to at least bring it up court. I don’t get the logic.

This kid does well in pnr’s, he’s a good facilitator, he can drive whenever he wants when he has the ball.

Instead for most of the game they sat him in the corner to ball watch. Two games in a row now this has happened.

hopefully this is just a Mutombo thing and Nick will be more willing to give him a chance to create with the ball in his hands (especially if he's coming off the bench).

[Masai4PM]

Summer league has been great to watch our new prospects play and get some new members on this board into my ignore list

[pilkoids]

I'm ashamed to only realize this now, but we got a heck of a lot younger. Talent definitely walked out the door, but it's good to now have young players on the bench hungry for playing time

[Dalek]

Wainright had a 20burger ?? He looked good in highlights but glad to see his pt total so high tonite. He's gonna be good one, a solid bench keeper. I like him better than RHJ/Bembry/SJ and that's the role we are going to have him in. If he is our version of PJ tucker but better with ball that's a huge plus for us.

Our C rotation will be better than last year
Barnes Wainright Yuta are better than Bembry/SJ/Yuta of last year
We are bigger/lengthier than last year

I am a big ISH believer.

Read on Twitter

I don't know how Wainright fits into the rotation but the guy is a gritty defender who goes all out on possessions and can be an absolute bully but in the nicest most apologetic of ways - kind of like OG when he accidently body slams you.

Plus you have got to appreciate the how much this guy is so humble and together as a person. Really reminds me of Malcolm Brogdon. I am guessing he is the SL locker room leader based on the vibes he gives in interviews.

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

Jimmy Butler was also 25 years old. OG just turned 24.

The fact that you guys are arbitrarily decided a player's growth will be stunted based on X number years in the league without providing any sort of actually statistical analysis is what's wrong here. You are making the statement. You might be right, but back it up with something?

You can look it up but it’s generally accepted that a player’s prime is 27 years old. But it’s never a straight trajectory where a player gets better every single year until 27 and then levels off. There are usually ups and downs before they hit their peak. Let’s look at Jimmy Butler for example:

At 25 and his 4th year in the league: 20, 5, 3
26: 21,5,5
27: 24,7,6
28: 22,5,5
29: 18,5,4

His best seasons coincide with his prime, but you can see the average of those numbers hover around what we saw from him at 25 in his 4th season.
So while Butler may have a 25, 7 and 6 season, we know that he’s not that type of player, generally he’ll get your 21, 5, 5. Keep in mind Butler was a guy who was a number 1 option, got a ton of minutes and had all the opportunities.

So OG, who JUST turned 24, has two more years (21, 5 and 5, 26 year old Jimmy Butler) before we have a more accruate sense of who he is during his prime.

He’ll be 25 at the end of next season. The point is at the end of Butlers 4th season you knew the type of player he’d be and he was 25 at that point only a year older than OG but still the same amount of years in the league. It’s not an exact science but we’re not comparing a 23 year old with 4 years in the league to a 26 year old with 4 years in the league. OG could get better next year, but he could also regress the next year, then slightly better the following year but the point is that there probably probably won’t be a huge change from year to year unless the team completely revamps their offence around him.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Wainright had a 20burger ??

Burger? 20 is a sausage McMuffin these days.

[MixxSRC]

Go look at my original post. I said if a player has been getting consistent minutes you know by the 4th year or sometimes 3rd year in the NBA. I also factored a change of scenario in into my original post. Let’s see OG is already 24, getting 33 minutes a game and has a 20% usage. He already shoots 40% from 3, 78% from the FT line averages 6 boards, 2 assists and 1 steal while giving us 16 points. He’s not going to play 40 minutes, his usage might go up slightly but he’s not going to be a lead ball handler, I expect his playmaking to get better but what I don’t think all of a sudden he’s going to turn into a consistent over 20+ scorer, 5+ assists. Remember there will be slight improvements but there will also be future seasons when those numbers go down as well. There’s always regression to the mean, but players usually stay consistent once they’ve hit a certain plateau.

Last year was first time he averaged above 30 min per game. 33 min per game is pretty small he can bump that up to 37. Lowry leaving has left 13 attempts per game for the taking. FVV and Pascal already reached their usage ceiling imo and I see OG's attempts rise from 12 to easily 14-15. He increased his 3pt attempts from 3 to 6 from his 3 year to 4th year without dip in 3P%. It's not out of the question that with increased attempts his % will stay the same. I can see him average 20pts.

The league average in minutes is 35. Last year Fred lead our team in minutes at 36.5. Lowry opens up more attempts but then you have Dragic, Barnes and other players to take into consideration. Your posts has a lot of ifs in it. How realistic is it that he increases attempts without reducing efficiency especially when Kyle was drawing defensive attention and getting open shots? Like I said it’s not always a straight trajectory when it comes to development. I think realistically he’ll probably top out a shade under 20 points and improve his assists, but I don’t see a huge leap in development unless the offense literally force feeds him the ball.

I don't think Kyle was drawing that much defensive attention. He'll still be behind FVV and Siakam in usage so he won't have all of attention on him. His effiency didn't dip much when he jumped from 8 attempts per game to 12. So I can't say that it'll dip until it does. He's 38% shooter from 3 I think offense needs to feature him if they want to win more.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Wainright has those "Kingpin" shoulders. He's built like a rectangle.

[Raps in 4]

I'm ashamed to only realize this now, but we got a heck of a lot younger. Talent definitely walked out the door, but it's good to now have young players on the bench hungry for playing time

I'm happy. The team wasn't going anywhere being led by a 35 year-old Lowry. This is best for both parties.

I just hope we don't play Dragic much this year, but we probably will to showcase him for a trade.

[Duffman100]

You can look it up but it’s generally accepted that a player’s prime is 27 years old. But it’s never a straight trajectory where a player gets better every single year until 27 and then levels off. There are usually ups and downs before they hit their peak. Let’s look at Jimmy Butler for example:

At 25 and his 4th year in the league: 20, 5, 3
26: 21,5,5
27: 24,7,6
28: 22,5,5
29: 18,5,4

His best seasons coincide with his prime, but you can see the average of those numbers hover around what we saw from him at 25 in his 4th season.
So while Butler may have a 25, 7 and 6 season, we know that he’s not that type of player, generally he’ll get your 21, 5, 5. Keep in mind Butler was a guy who was a number 1 option, got a ton of minutes and had all the opportunities.

So OG, who JUST turned 24, has two more years (21, 5 and 5, 26 year old Jimmy Butler) before we have a more accruate sense of who he is during his prime.

He’ll be 25 at the end of next season. The point is at the end of Butlers 4th season you knew the type of player he’d be and he was 25 at that point only a year older than OG but still the same amount of years in the league. It’s not an exact science but we’re not comparing a 23 year old with 4 years in the league to a 26 year old with 4 years in the league. OG could get better next year, but he could also regress the next year, then slightly better the following year but the point is that there probably probably won’t be a huge change from year to year unless the team completely revamps their offence around him.

But we are comparing a player that entered the league at 22 to a player that entered the league at 20. Add on some of the external struggles that OG has experienced and yeah, it's not an exact science at all.

[Dalek]

Wainright has those "Kingpin" shoulders. He's built like a rectangle.

He really reminds me of THT. He is a similar sort of freak basketball body. Just huge shoulders and looks like a tight end. Despite what looks like average length, those should allow Wainright to create a bit of space which helps in getting to his jumpshot which has looked solid so far.

On defense, to me he is like the SF version of Lowry/FVV who are the two fire hydrants who don't have elite length but due to strength and low center of gravity they can get into you and strip the ball. I already have a high level of trust this guy will be a plus defender.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Wainright has those "Kingpin" shoulders. He's built like a rectangle.

He really reminds me of THT. He is a similar sort of freak basketball body. Just huge shoulders and looks like a tight end. Despite what looks like average length, those should allow Wainright to create a bit of space which helps in getting to his jumpshot which has looked solid so far.

On defense, to me he is like the SF version of Lowry/FVV who are the two fire hydrants who don't have elite length but due to strength and low center of gravity they can get into you and strip the ball. I already have a high level of trust this guy will be a plus defender.

The extreme end is Luka, not that he's on that level of skill. It's a body type that works though, especially when you're as athletic as Wainright, even if he is a bit on the older side. He's a great find for a guy to fill out the roster(or 905).

[Blazing_royale]

all this talk and someone still hasn't posted Barnes 5 block highlight?

[Los_29]

I thought OG would never average anywhere close to 15ppg and he proved me wrong this year. After seeing the improvements he made in his game last year, I now believe 20ppg is a possibility.

While I agree we get a sense of what kind of player someone is by their 4th and 5th year, the idea that they are finished products at that point is just not true. People mentioned Butler, his best year was actually last season. Career high in rebounds, assists, steals and fg%. He might've averaged slightly more points in Chicago but he did so on significantly worse efficiency. The same can be said for Lebron, Wade, Dirk, KD, Kobe and so many other star players. Players definitely learn to be more efficient as they get older which is why if you look at their advanced stats, their best years were when they were in their late 20's not when they were 23-24 years old.

It seems like the sweet spot is 27-29 when a lot of superstars put up their best year.

[vaff87]

Why people talking about Scottie playing elite defense and ability to get to the line in summer league? All of these look better NOW because it's the summer league. When it comes time to play in the NBA none of yall be saying any of this **** and he's gonna get exposed hard. Scottie's strengths right now is size and court vision. This was a reach of a #4 pick in a deep draft.

Hey Nostradamus, am I ever going to win the lottery or what?

You would know this yourself since you clearly can see how good Scottie is going to be

I didn’t say anything about how good he’s going to be. You did.

[StopitLeo]

Wainright had a 20burger ?? He looked good in highlights but glad to see his pt total so high tonite. He's gonna be good one, a solid bench keeper. I like him better than RHJ/Bembry/SJ and that's the role we are going to have him in. If he is our version of PJ tucker but better with ball that's a huge plus for us.

Our C rotation will be better than last year
Barnes Wainright Yuta are better than Bembry/SJ/Yuta of last year
We are bigger/lengthier than last year

I’ve looked at him as a bigger PJ Tucker with less shooting. He might be proving me wrong on that second point.

[720]

Hey Nostradamus, am I ever going to win the lottery or what?

You would know this yourself since you clearly can see how good Scottie is going to be

I didn’t say anything about how good he’s going to be. That was you.

Hey Vaff man, long time no see. Hope you're doing well.

[vaff87]

You would know this yourself since you clearly can see how good Scottie is going to be

I didn’t say anything about how good he’s going to be. That was you.

Hey Vaff man, long time no see. Hope you're doing well.

Thanks! I’m not too bad. I hope all is well with you, as well.

[DreamTeam09]

Wainright had a 20burger ?? He looked good in highlights but glad to see his pt total so high tonite. He's gonna be good one, a solid bench keeper. I like him better than RHJ/Bembry/SJ and that's the role we are going to have him in. If he is our version of PJ tucker but better with ball that's a huge plus for us.

Our C rotation will be better than last year
Barnes Wainright Yuta are better than Bembry/SJ/Yuta of last year
We are bigger/lengthier than last year

I’ve looked at him as a bigger PJ Tucker with less shooting. He might be proving me wrong on that second point.

Nah he can shoot it, PJ is just a corner shooter, above the breaks and he's meh. Wainright will let it ripp from all over the arc, and he pulled out a step back 3, PJ can't do that in games.

He will not have the defensive rep with the reps right away like Tucker has now, but offensively he's easily better.

Tony Craig, PJ tucker, those types. Strong 3+D guys wainright BBIQ might be better than those guys too.