2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Rapsfan07]

Have they though?

Bottom 5 finish.
15 games below .500
Their overrated #1 pick Banchero had a 52% TS% and doesn't play defense. lol
Fultz and Suggs (2/3 of the guard rotation) shoot below 33% from 3.
Isaac didn't even play this year.
Our team 3pt% is 28th worst, they're 24th.
Also, they're not even that long.

Y'all overrate the Magic too much. Call me when they actually accomplish something.

Not sure how you can dispute that the Magic have better young pieces with potential than we do.

Who would you rather have Barnes and OG or Banchero and Wagner?

Koloko = Suggs
Trent = Anthony

Banchero and Wagner pretty easily.

[HumbleRen]

Have they though?

Bottom 5 finish.
15 games below .500
Their overrated #1 pick Banchero had a 52% TS% and doesn't play defense. lol
Fultz and Suggs (2/3 of the guard rotation) shoot below 33% from 3.
Isaac didn't even play this year.
Our team 3pt% is 28th worst, they're 24th.
Also, they're not even that long.

Y'all overrate the Magic too much. Call me when they actually accomplish something.

Not sure how you can dispute that the Magic have better young pieces with potential than we do.

Who would you rather have Barnes and OG or Banchero and Wagner?

Koloko = Suggs
Trent = Anthony

Banchero and Wagner.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

So this guy finally did a little vid on Keyonte, you can see some of the really dumb passes he made but not all of them. Really hate his upside as an on ball guy.

Watch on YouTube

Some of you guys will change your minds about him after seeing that stuff surely.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Oh yeah and stick around to watch him get blown by like a soft ass turnstile on defense. I cannot see Masai drafting this kid but I can see him taking Bufkin.

[Mark_83]

Hopefully we either draft or sign guys with that ability. Orlando has done project 6’9” better than us. They have guys who can shoot. Isaac, Wagner, and Banchero fit our playing style to a tee.

We have options in this draft but we played ourselves out of that spot. I’m willing to bet a team like Orlando or Dallas add Hendricks.

So we’re left with the likes of inefficient guards. My hope is that someone falls, or we rise in the lottery.

Have they though?

Bottom 5 finish.
15 games below .500
Their overrated #1 pick Banchero had a 52% TS% and doesn't play defense. lol
Fultz and Suggs (2/3 of the guard rotation) shoot below 33% from 3.
Isaac didn't even play this year.
Our team 3pt% is 28th worst, they're 24th.
Also, they're not even that long.

Y'all overrate the Magic too much. Call me when they actually accomplish something.

Not sure how you can dispute that the Magic have better young pieces with potential than we do.

What does that have to do with what I said? He said they're doing project 6'9 better and have better shooters. By what metric are they doing "project 6'9" better. They also aren't good shooters overall.

As far as your point, sure, they have more young guys than us in aggregate. Whoop-dee-doo! That's what happens when you're in the lotto every year.

But Banchero is overrated, doesn't defend, and is inefficient. Scottie had a better first year than that as a 4th overall pick. The only guys I'd want off their roster are Carter and Wagner, and maybe Isaac if he's healthy.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Oh yeah and stick around to watch him get blown by like a soft ass turnstile on defense. I cannot see Masai drafting this kid but I can see him taking Bufkin.

Him being a freshman gets him some slack. I think at both their ceilings George is the more potent scorer because of his shooting ability. His playmaking is also better than Bufkin and he's earlier in his development.

I'm a Bufkin fan as well but we have to consider Bufkin also was meh in his freshman year(barely played but still) and wasn't that great to start his sophomore season but turned it around. A sophomore Keyonte might look way better just one year from what we've seen currently. A lot of his failures are stuff a lot of guards aren't great at starting out (or else they're high lottery) like quick/fluid decision making and defensive consistency against faster and bigger competition.

We have to ask ourselves what we think their individual peaks will be and if we have the roster and the staff to get them there. A lower usage Keyonte that plays the Norm Powell role might look a lot better than the 30USG% Keyonte at Baylor right away.

I wouldn't be mad either way but I wouldn't be surprised if Bufkin has the better rookie season but Keyonte becomes better within his first 3 seasons

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Julian Strawther is worth moving any of our bench guys to get early in the second round. Can score (40% from 3 on 5 attempts) and defend at least 2/3s. We have like zero shooting wings outside of OG and he'd be a great bench pickup to replace Boucher/Precious

Id be ecstatic if TOR went out to get Brandin Podziemski and Julian in the second round. I think both can way outplay their draft position if they go in the second round.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Have they though?

Bottom 5 finish.
15 games below .500
Their overrated #1 pick Banchero had a 52% TS% and doesn't play defense. lol
Fultz and Suggs (2/3 of the guard rotation) shoot below 33% from 3.
Isaac didn't even play this year.
Our team 3pt% is 28th worst, they're 24th.
Also, they're not even that long.

Y'all overrate the Magic too much. Call me when they actually accomplish something.

Not sure how you can dispute that the Magic have better young pieces with potential than we do.

What does that have to do with what I said? He said they're doing project 6'9 better and have better shooters. By what metric are they doing "project 6'9" better. They also aren't good shooters overall.

As far as your point, sure, they have more young guys than us in aggregate. Whoop-dee-doo! That's what happens when you're in the lotto every year.

But Banchero is overrated, doesn't defend, and is inefficient. Scottie had a better first year than that as a 4th overall pick. The only guys I'd want off their roster are Carter and Wagner, and maybe Isaac if he's healthy.

Their guys are better than our guys for the future. We only have Scottie and OG, and there’s already smoke around OG, so we might just have Scottie. If you’d rather have this mess of a roster long term that’s your choice, but I’d rather have what Orlando has to build on.

Banchero had a decent rookie year, better than Scottie’s second year. But this is not a comparison post. I’d just rather have Banchero, Wagner, Isaac, WCJ, Fultz to build with that just Scottie, and maybe OG. Like I said, we need to use Pascal like they used Vucevic to gain future assets.

[Grew]

So this guy finally did a little vid on Keyonte, you can see some of the really dumb passes he made but not all of them. Really hate his upside as an on ball guy.

Watch on YouTube

Some of you guys will change your minds about him after seeing that stuff surely.

The strengths are still just higher end than Bufkin's when it comes to translating to the NBA imo. If George figures it out and reaches near his top end potential you have a go-to shot creator, where Bufkin looks like a rotation guy who can give you 12/3/3. There's just more of an It-factor to Georges game that Bufkin lacks.

Georges weaknesses look bad in this vid but if the game starts to slow down for him, and with more spacing in the NBA, all of a sudden some of these dumb passes are dunks. I also notice in these clips, defenders are playing with their hands, bumping, shoving and swatting at him as he's going by them, leading to turnovers. You can't do that in the NBA, at least half those are getting called fouls.

George has a lot to clean up, but Bufkin also had a year of experience on him at that level (even if he couldn't crack the top end of his teams rotation year 1). This season Bufkin played on a pretty talented team, they underachieved and didn't even make the tournament. The only perimeter player mocked in our range I prefer Bufkin over is maybe JHS. Bufkin might have a decent career but his ceiling for what we need would make him an underwhelming pick. I'd rather strike out on players like Coulibaly/Whitehead/Smith Jr, just to name a few. At least we would have tried to go big and went home.

Bufkin just looks like that guard who played with the ball in college but isn't good enough to get it in the NBA.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Jonathan Wasserman posted a nice handy shooting versatility chart for anyone that's interested in scoring guards. The guys largely hyped here, George and Bufkin, are pretty weak in terms of versatility volume and efficiency.

Podziemski is the most versatile and efficient prospect, not even close, really. Super high volume floaters, high volume pull ups.

[Yallbecrazy]

Jonathan Wasserman posted a nice handy shooting versatility chart for anyone that's interested in scoring guards. The guys largely hyped here, George and Bufkin, are pretty weak in terms of versatility volume and efficiency.

Podziemski is the most versatile and efficient prospect, not even close, really. Super high volume floaters, high volume pull ups.

Give me Podz or Dick please based on that, Miller might be a little overrated as he could be a pure set shooter...but sample size is always an issue with these.

Strawther might be a good shooter, but I don't like the rest of his game at all.

[nowayguy]

Jonathan Wasserman posted a nice handy shooting versatility chart for anyone that's interested in scoring guards. The guys largely hyped here, George and Bufkin, are pretty weak in terms of versatility volume and efficiency.

Podziemski is the most versatile and efficient prospect, not even close, really. Super high volume floaters, high volume pull ups.

I wish it tracked performance against top 50 teams but the sample size would probably be too small for most players.

I'm also wondering how easy it would be to put something together for previous draft classes. It would be interesting to see how college versatility translated into NBA success.

[Rapsfan07]

Not sure how you can dispute that the Magic have better young pieces with potential than we do.

What does that have to do with what I said? He said they're doing project 6'9 better and have better shooters. By what metric are they doing "project 6'9" better. They also aren't good shooters overall.

As far as your point, sure, they have more young guys than us in aggregate. Whoop-dee-doo! That's what happens when you're in the lotto every year.

But Banchero is overrated, doesn't defend, and is inefficient. Scottie had a better first year than that as a 4th overall pick. The only guys I'd want off their roster are Carter and Wagner, and maybe Isaac if he's healthy.

Their guys are better than our guys for the future. We only have Scottie and OG, and there’s already smoke around OG, so we might just have Scottie. If you’d rather have this mess of a roster long term that’s your choice, but I’d rather have what Orlando has to build on.

Banchero had a decent rookie year, better than Scottie’s second year. But this is not a comparison post. I’d just rather have Banchero, Wagner, Isaac, WCJ, Fultz to build with that just Scottie, and maybe OG. Like I said, we need to use Pascal like they used Vucevic to gain future assets.

Pretty simple.

[DreamTeam09]

So this guy finally did a little vid on Keyonte, you can see some of the really dumb passes he made but not all of them. Really hate his upside as an on ball guy.

Watch on YouTube

Some of you guys will change your minds about him after seeing that stuff surely.

The strengths are still just higher end than Bufkin's when it comes to translating to the NBA imo. If George figures it out and reaches near his top end potential you have a go-to shot creator, where Bufkin looks like a rotation guy who can give you 12/3/3. There's just more of an It-factor to Georges game that Bufkin lacks.

Georges weaknesses look bad in this vid but if the game starts to slow down for him, and with more spacing in the NBA, all of a sudden some of these dumb passes are dunks. I also notice in these clips, defenders are playing with their hands, bumping, shoving and swatting at him as he's going by them, leading to turnovers. You can't do that in the NBA, at least half those are getting called fouls.

George has a lot to clean up, but Bufkin also had a year of experience on him at that level (even if he couldn't crack the top end of his teams rotation year 1). This season Bufkin played on a pretty talented team, they underachieved and didn't even make the tournament. The only perimeter player mocked in our range I prefer Bufkin over is maybe JHS. Bufkin might have a decent career but his ceiling for what we need would make him an underwhelming pick. I'd rather strike out on players like Coulibaly/Whitehead/Smith Jr, just to name a few. At least we would have tried to go big and went home.

Bufkin just looks like that guard who played with the ball in college but isn't good enough to get it in the NBA.

I feel like all of that guys post are with feelings already made up when giving his prognosis, which I don't understand why you wouldn't have an open mind about being right or wrong.

[Rapsfan07]

Jonathan Wasserman posted a nice handy shooting versatility chart for anyone that's interested in scoring guards. The guys largely hyped here, George and Bufkin, are pretty weak in terms of versatility volume and efficiency.

Podziemski is the most versatile and efficient prospect, not even close, really. Super high volume floaters, high volume pull ups.

Love Podz.

I'm willing to virtually guarantee that he'll be in the first round come the draft.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Of course I've made up my mind on George, I watched him a ton and couldn't stand his incredible inconsistency, bad passing and lack of focus on defense. I'd be shocked if Masai takes him given what he demonstrated on the defensive end. There are other players I didn't watch who I've changed my opinion on based on more research into.

[Psubs]

So this guy finally did a little vid on Keyonte, you can see some of the really dumb passes he made but not all of them. Really hate his upside as an on ball guy.

Watch on YouTube

Some of you guys will change your minds about him after seeing that stuff surely.

He is an over-ambitioius passer like me. But during pickup when I connect it's damn sweet!

Keyonte is an undersized SG 6th man at best. Can see him as a streaky scorer. Terence Davis, if he can develop an average 3pt shot?

Watch on YouTube

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

So this guy finally did a little vid on Keyonte, you can see some of the really dumb passes he made but not all of them. Really hate his upside as an on ball guy.

Watch on YouTube

Some of you guys will change your minds about him after seeing that stuff surely.

He is an over-ambitioius passer like me. But during pickup when I connect it's damn sweet!

Keyonte is an undersized SG 6th man at best. Can see him as a streaky scorer. Terence Davis, if he can develop an average 3pt shot?

Watch on YouTube

Keyonte's defense might even be worse than Jett Howard's. I know they both had the same DBPM but honestly using the eye test Howard's D is better which is saying something.

I've thought pretty hard about the allure of Keyonte's kit and really the only thing which stands out is his ability to finish through contact well for a kid his age and stature. It's not enough for me.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Jonathan Wasserman posted a nice handy shooting versatility chart for anyone that's interested in scoring guards. The guys largely hyped here, George and Bufkin, are pretty weak in terms of versatility volume and efficiency.

Podziemski is the most versatile and efficient prospect, not even close, really. Super high volume floaters, high volume pull ups.

I wish it tracked performance against top 50 teams but the sample size would probably be too small for most players.

I'm also wondering how easy it would be to put something together for previous draft classes. It would be interesting to see how college versatility translated into NBA success.

Yeah, I think that top 50 wouldn't help much. I don't have synergy and don't care to do that much work, but I do think Wasserman's list is messy because it comps prospects at different ages. Still, the difference in results is pretty glaring.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Oh yeah and stick around to watch him get blown by like a soft ass turnstile on defense. I cannot see Masai drafting this kid but I can see him taking Bufkin.

Him being a freshman gets him some slack. I think at both their ceilings George is the more potent scorer because of his shooting ability. His playmaking is also better than Bufkin and he's earlier in his development.

I'm a Bufkin fan as well but we have to consider Bufkin also was meh in his freshman year(barely played but still) and wasn't that great to start his sophomore season but turned it around. A sophomore Keyonte might look way better just one year from what we've seen currently. A lot of his failures are stuff a lot of guards aren't great at starting out (or else they're high lottery) like quick/fluid decision making and defensive consistency against faster and bigger competition.

We have to ask ourselves what we think their individual peaks will be and if we have the roster and the staff to get them there. A lower usage Keyonte that plays the Norm Powell role might look a lot better than the 30USG% Keyonte at Baylor right away.

I wouldn't be mad either way but I wouldn't be surprised if Bufkin has the better rookie season but Keyonte becomes better within his first 3 seasons

Bufkin isn't ready to come into the NBA and dominate by any means, he needs to play in the g-league for a while and work on his body and his game. He is just as much a project as most of the players in this year's draft.