2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[Indeed]

Suggs be top 3 lmao hell no!!

I would easily favour any of Scoot (especially), Miller or Amen over him. Heck there wouldn't be much that separates Suggs from Cason Wallace for me.

If I was assessing Dyson coming out of the G-League, he doesn't stand out to me anymore than Anthony Black tbh. But also what "proven player"?! That's a very blanket statement without actually presenting what you would consider a likely available trade that would also need to happen this summer as well before their contracts balloon even more.

There also seems to be this weird running misled belief that Pascal or OG would warrant some surefire young star in order to make the trade. When the reality is, if teams feel almost certain whatever young player will be a superstar, guess what?! They're not trading for a player the level of OG or Siakam lol those kinds of prospects are only moved to bring in a true star player. Pascal is wonderful but as his all-star reserve to not making a team at all shows, he's not that. So you have to roll the dice a little in players you believe could be better long term at the heights of their potentials and see at least 2-3 guys at that 3rd pick that could EASILY be better if you got the most out of them.

I don't think you remember the hype around Suggs and the season he put up.
I think he would be getting hype as a top 3-5 player in this draft.

I honestly wouldn't have even considered him over Scoot or Miller which puts him at best 4th. Scoot looked far more impressive and league ready than Suggs and Miller dominated college ball more than Suggs, in fact it wouldn't be surprised if people made it a conversation of Cade vs Miller had they been in the same draft, although Cade likely would get the nod with more pre-college hype.

Personally I likely wouldn't have taken him over Amen either in a hypothetical where we hadn't drafted Scottie. He's supposed to be every bit the passer and defender of Suggs but 3 inches taller, with much better wingspan and of course freakish hops and I always have a thing for upside lol so yeah Suggs would be 5th at best for me but definitely not top 3.

Or I feel we are over hyping this year's draft, which happens every year until they started playing in the NBA.
Sure, Henderson has shown more and being bigger than Suggs, that doesn't mean Suggs is not ahead of Miller.

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[PhilBlackson]

I don't think you remember the hype around Suggs and the season he put up.
I think he would be getting hype as a top 3-5 player in this draft.

I honestly wouldn't have even considered him over Scoot or Miller which puts him at best 4th. Scoot looked far more impressive and league ready than Suggs and Miller dominated college ball more than Suggs, in fact it wouldn't be surprised if people made it a conversation of Cade vs Miller had they been in the same draft, although Cade likely would get the nod with more pre-college hype.

Personally I likely wouldn't have taken him over Amen either in a hypothetical where we hadn't drafted Scottie. He's supposed to be every bit the passer and defender of Suggs but 3 inches taller, with much better wingspan and of course freakish hops and I always have a thing for upside lol so yeah Suggs would be 5th at best for me but definitely not top 3.

Or I feel we are over hyping this year's draft, which happens every year until they started playing in the NBA.
Sure, Henderson has shown more and being bigger than Suggs, that doesn't mean Suggs is not ahead of Miller.

Again I know I wouldn't have put Suggs ahead of Miller, a 6'9 wing that can score at 3 levels and numbers blew Suggs' away. I don't see any reason to have ranked Suggs ahead of him but that's me.

[Spates]

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

It's hard to call OG a prospect when contending teams are looking to him as a win now move. As for Precious and Banton, who knows. They need a lot of refinement to thrive at the NBA level. I see the promise but I wouldn't bet on it. I actually think they're the type of peripheral players, at least currently, that scale with the ball IQ of teammates.

That's why I'm partial to gathering smart players that can shoot, pass, dribble, and defend. Raise the floor with smart play until you can acquire the talent you're certain raises the ceiling.

Sounds like you want someone better than Step Curry (better defender) or better than LeBron (smarter). I am sure that would raise the floor, but usually players without holes would be at the top of the draft board, and may only come in decades. Look at last year 1st overall pick, there are concern with quickness on defense, so I am not sure how we can get there.

Why take it to such an extreme? I'm advocating for players like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Derrick White, Franz Wagner. Well rounded players with high feel that can fit anywhere. I prioritize these players precisely because stars are so rare. NBA ball has changed and with many of the best teams the ball moves so much that you need good decision-making on the court. Swinging for star upside with every pick is the danger.

[Indeed]

It's hard to call OG a prospect when contending teams are looking to him as a win now move. As for Precious and Banton, who knows. They need a lot of refinement to thrive at the NBA level. I see the promise but I wouldn't bet on it. I actually think they're the type of peripheral players, at least currently, that scale with the ball IQ of teammates.

That's why I'm partial to gathering smart players that can shoot, pass, dribble, and defend. Raise the floor with smart play until you can acquire the talent you're certain raises the ceiling.

Sounds like you want someone better than Step Curry (better defender) or better than LeBron (smarter). I am sure that would raise the floor, but usually players without holes would be at the top of the draft board, and may only come in decades. Look at last year 1st overall pick, there are concern with quickness on defense, so I am not sure how we can get there.

Why take it to such an extreme? I'm advocating for players like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Derrick White, Franz Wagner. Well rounded players with high feel that can fit anywhere. I prioritize these players precisely because stars are so rare. NBA ball has changed and with many of the best teams the ball moves so much that you need good decision-making on the court. Swinging for star upside with every pick is the danger.

I guess now I understand, but not sure I agreed Bogdanovic "can" defend, White "can" pass, etc.
And by your definition, wouldn't Trent be that category?

I think what happen to our team is that we lacked another star player to carry the offense. I don't think Bogdanovic, White nor Wagner can solve our problem.

[Indeed]

I honestly wouldn't have even considered him over Scoot or Miller which puts him at best 4th. Scoot looked far more impressive and league ready than Suggs and Miller dominated college ball more than Suggs, in fact it wouldn't be surprised if people made it a conversation of Cade vs Miller had they been in the same draft, although Cade likely would get the nod with more pre-college hype.

Personally I likely wouldn't have taken him over Amen either in a hypothetical where we hadn't drafted Scottie. He's supposed to be every bit the passer and defender of Suggs but 3 inches taller, with much better wingspan and of course freakish hops and I always have a thing for upside lol so yeah Suggs would be 5th at best for me but definitely not top 3.

Or I feel we are over hyping this year's draft, which happens every year until they started playing in the NBA.
Sure, Henderson has shown more and being bigger than Suggs, that doesn't mean Suggs is not ahead of Miller.

Again I know I wouldn't have put Suggs ahead of Miller, a 6'9 wing that can score at 3 levels and numbers blew Suggs' away. I don't see any reason to have ranked Suggs ahead of him but that's me.

I think if Suggs was #5 on the previous draft, this draft would make him a #3. And Kuminga at #6 would be ahead of Amen or perhaps Miller.

I think this draft is 2 or 3 good prospects behind from the previous 2 drafts. You can claim some players would be better, but if they are on the same draft and without you seeing them play against NBA level, I doubt you would have it this way.

Spoiler:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2103557

I am personally favoring Suggs over Barnes and Kuminga but when I think of it a better passing Bayless may not be a bad comp for his floor and that's not that great either.

[WuTang_CMB]

Prosper doing well

[Jadoogar]

Or I feel we are over hyping this year's draft, which happens every year until they started playing in the NBA.
Sure, Henderson has shown more and being bigger than Suggs, that doesn't mean Suggs is not ahead of Miller.

Again I know I wouldn't have put Suggs ahead of Miller, a 6'9 wing that can score at 3 levels and numbers blew Suggs' away. I don't see any reason to have ranked Suggs ahead of him but that's me.

I think if Suggs was #5 on the previous draft, this draft would make him a #3. And Kuminga at #6 would be ahead of Amen or perhaps Miller.

I think this draft is 2 or 3 good prospects behind from the previous 2 drafts. You can claim some players would be better, but if they are on the same draft and without you seeing them play against NBA level, I doubt you would have it this way.

Spoiler:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2103557

I am personally favoring Suggs over Barnes and Kuminga but when I think of it a better passing Bayless may not be a bad comp for his floor and that's not that great either.

Yup 2021 ended up being a fantastic draft and Suggs was in heavy consideration for 4, a majority of this board wanted Suggs.
I think this draft doesn't have the same top level talent (outside of Wemby obviously). Of course there is going to be some good players throughout the lottery but i don't see any perennial allstars like Green and Mobley were projected to be.

[Indeed]

Again I know I wouldn't have put Suggs ahead of Miller, a 6'9 wing that can score at 3 levels and numbers blew Suggs' away. I don't see any reason to have ranked Suggs ahead of him but that's me.

I think if Suggs was #5 on the previous draft, this draft would make him a #3. And Kuminga at #6 would be ahead of Amen or perhaps Miller.

I think this draft is 2 or 3 good prospects behind from the previous 2 drafts. You can claim some players would be better, but if they are on the same draft and without you seeing them play against NBA level, I doubt you would have it this way.

Spoiler:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2103557

I am personally favoring Suggs over Barnes and Kuminga but when I think of it a better passing Bayless may not be a bad comp for his floor and that's not that great either.

Yup 2021 ended up being a fantastic draft and Suggs was in heavy consideration for 4, a majority of this board wanted Suggs.
I think this draft doesn't have the same top level talent (outside of Wemby obviously). Of course there is going to be some good players throughout the lottery but i don't see any perennial allstars like Green and Mobley were projected to be.

Even last year 2022 with 7' wingspan SF across first round. This year only 6'10 wingspan SF are being the norm in first round really disappointed me.

I am not going to rule out some of those with higher IQ who may survive for a long career in the NBA, but the physical profile has been limiting the ceiling of this year's draft class. And I am not confident to acquire another pick that can net us a good player, rather trade up or trade out if necessary.

[Spates]

Sounds like you want someone better than Step Curry (better defender) or better than LeBron (smarter). I am sure that would raise the floor, but usually players without holes would be at the top of the draft board, and may only come in decades. Look at last year 1st overall pick, there are concern with quickness on defense, so I am not sure how we can get there.

Why take it to such an extreme? I'm advocating for players like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Derrick White, Franz Wagner. Well rounded players with high feel that can fit anywhere. I prioritize these players precisely because stars are so rare. NBA ball has changed and with many of the best teams the ball moves so much that you need good decision-making on the court. Swinging for star upside with every pick is the danger.

I guess now I understand, but not sure I agreed Bogdanovic "can" defend, White "can" pass, etc.
And by your definition, wouldn't Trent be that category?

I think what happen to our team is that we lacked another star player to carry the offense. I don't think Bogdanovic, White nor Wagner can solve our problem.

Personally, I like Trent and would like to keep him on a value contract because I think there's still a lot of room to grow. But he can barely dribble and pass at an NBA level, and his shooting is high variance. As is his defense . He's not bringing consistent impact. So, he doesn't fit that definition.

I'm not suggesting any of those three players fix the issues although Bogdan would be a help. Raps offense was so bad they need a very rare heliocentric talent to piece it all together. Those are the most costly pieces. As much as we praise the squad's individual talents their collective performance was dreadful. You take away the one structural advantage they played with and they have nothing to rely on.

The crap shooting numbers are influenced by bad shot creation in addition to "bad shooting". It's been narrativized as bad shooting but it's certainly not that simple. Who actually thinks KCP would be shooting as well as he is with the Raptors?

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[Dalek]

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I think Leonard Miller is going to be out of Toronto's range by the end of it. Too much productivity and growth over a short time. I am confident he is a lotto pick. His year over year progression is insane considering he wasn't playing at a high level prep school last year. Guy is a sponge.

[Dalek]

Prosper doing well

He is going to make the league. Great size and potential as a forward and looks bouncy.

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[Bruin]

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[bboyskinnylegs]

Anthony Black is interesting, but I feel like he's a poor fit on our team.

[WuTang_CMB]

Amari playing well 15 pts

[Bruin]

Amari playing well 15 pts

He’s gonna work his way into the late teens hopefully

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I just watched more footage of Prosper as I caught him over a stretch of games late in the season he was barely noticeable in but Marquette does distribute the ball quite evenly so very few players really popped off in a game this year, even Kolek only had a handful of games where he put up big numbers. It makes you wonder what could have been if he had been more featured in an offense.

I have to say I am actually extremely impressed with him. He went up against good competition at Marquette and his ftR was an insane .515, he also had 1.7 offensive rebounds per 29 mins and put the 2 ball in at a .624 rate. The 3 point shot is trending upward and he at least has the tools to become an ok defender in the NBA. It's the offense that actually has me very intrigued and wondering if there's something more there.

When you add everything together especially with how fast he puts the ball on the floor and attacks, the willingness to crash the offensive glass for an SF and ability to get to the line and improved 3 point shooting with visibly good mechanics, he clearly has an NBA body and athleticism and looks motivated as hell. Gonna have to actually say I think this kid is a massive sleeper. I slept on him until now. I really like this kid. A lot. I think he has a chance at going in the mid to late 20's.

If he forces you to close out at the 3 point line he is REALLY good at driving and scoring or getting to the line. I wish there were more footage of his defense.

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What a surprise

[WuTang_CMB]

Rico coaching