Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Barnes can play center ez. plenty of footage of him guarding 5's in college and highschool.

[Dalek]

Barnes can play center ez. plenty of footage of him guarding 5's in college and highschool.

I'd be more open to Barnes if he just committed to playing PF/C. To me, his role in college is what he wanted which was to be a PG. He had poor rebounding numbers and low block% so maybe it was a product of his role.

I said the same thing about Precious Achiuwa last year. If he could stop trying to be the next Kawhi (which he was not) and just board, defend and make the occasional play, he will be great. Miami gave him a good role.

I honestly don't see Barnes as being that different than Achuiwa. Maybe he can make some nice reads, but Barnes just looks like a role player to me.

[UnderdogRaptors]

Masai needs to mindfak the cavs into taking barnes or Kuminga so green can drop to us

[Grew]

Thing about the Barnes-Simmons comparison is that Barnes isn't nearly as explosive as Ben. Barnes is going to need to develop some moves around the basket because Simmons was further along at this stage of their lives in that regard too.

I like Barnes, would have been one of my top choices at 7. At 4, its still whoever drops to us for me, and its not even close.

[Bruin]

Masai needs to mindfak the cavs into taking barnes or Kuminga so green can drop to us

Green is likely going to Houston. Mobley is the guy we want Cleveland to pass on

[blastttOFF]

Masai needs to mindfak the cavs into taking barnes or Kuminga so green can drop to us

how much is it to hire Leonardo DiCaprio to plant an inception in Koby Altman's dream?
i would tell them to put a photoshop pic of Kuminga in the podium MVP speech in his lock box.

[tdotrep2]

barnes has less scoring fluidity than og, he looks like a 5 year old and he tries to create off the dribble. no thanks man

i'm pro suggs/mobely/green personally but barnes ball handling and passing ability is well ahead of OG even being 4 years younger.

barnes is a poor mans ben simmons without the ego and salary.

his ball handling is tighter sure, but ask him to shoot off the dribble and he looks like a newborn deer, theres nothing fluids about his ability to get a bucket. He could be a great player but the levels suggs could get to would be way more valuable.

[Qhawe]

If all the Barnes to Toronto rumors are true, then you have to think the raps are moving on from Pascal. I don't see how Barnes fits with OG and Pascal. Masai probably wants a full rebuild too. That's probably the sticking point with his contract.

FVV/Malachi
Wiggins/GTJ
OG/7th pick
Boucher/Barnes
FA (Holmes?)/Birch

I don't see why an OG Barnes Pascal pairing won't work. Good size and strength from all three to play 2,3,4 possibly 5 position. Allows for interchangeable lineups. I think it makes us extremely difficult to play against defensively, along with Fred.

This would rely on OG and Pascal becoming consistent off the dribble guys as well, which is no guarantee either, but I have faith lol

This is not an endorsement on barnes, I just think it could work.

[mademan]

barnes has less scoring fluidity than og, he looks like a 5 year old and he tries to create off the dribble. no thanks man

Dont know what youre watching, but thats just wrong. He has decent handles for his size and agility, even tho his scoring is extremely raw. And he's longer and can finish at the basket better.

[Mehar]

barnes has less scoring fluidity than og, he looks like a 5 year old and he tries to create off the dribble. no thanks man

I agree. Barnes is also not a very good rebounder, to go with his inconsistent jump shot. All year, he was projected to go 7-9. Now he is being hyped up, because the teams behind Toronto are hoping they pass on Suggs. Suggs should be a no-brainer pick at 4. I watched a couple of games involving Scottie Barnes. Good athlete and passer, but no way should be in the conversation for us at 4. Maybe if we were drafting 7/8. Same with Kuminga. I am good with one of Mobley/Suggs at 4.

[C_Money]

We’re a team that struggles to score in the halfcourt and you want to waste our pick on another guy who can’t score in the halfcourt LOL

[WuTang_CMB]

I like Kuminga, but wouldn't take him at #4.

Maybe Masai is playing 4D chess here. Have Kuminga come in for a workout so that Cavs get anxious and draft him at #3 because they don't want to risk trading down .

Then Green/Mobley falls to us .

Ya. Think they were going to work him out any way. But us pumping Kuminga makes a lot of sense here with us likely wanting Mobley.

[Clutch0z24]

Your logic here doesn't make sense to me.

You say we don't want to get Darko'd. At the same time you don't like the idea of a player breaking into the top 4 , because there's been a virtual consensus the whole season on who would go top 4-5.

Darko was 1000% part of a consensus at the top of the 2003 draft, some scouts were saying he should go 1st. It was a full year of that message in the media.

On the other hand D Wade moved his way up the draft board and was in the 7-12 range by the tourney. Obviously, he ended up 5th by draft day.

In retrospect, Detroit should have selected Wade (a 1st ballot HOF) over Melo and Bosh as well, not just Darko.

It's possible that the consensus is wrong. To me, if Masai selects Barnes it's because he is trying to avoid getting Darko'd. I.e. falling into the media driven consensus.

Masai and the team are, IMO, the demonstrated best scouts in the league, better than who ever is putting together these mocks.

Im saying Barnes just like Darko got hyped up by the "Draft Specialists" or people that "Know the draft" and the Media saying hes going to be this stud and has the most "Upside" in the draft just like they are doing with Barnes right now when in reality there are just better talent at the top of the draft....If you go back and watch Melo/Wade/Bosh college highlights It was obvious Darko had no place in that top 5 of the Draft let alone 2...... you can tell (Just like Suggs/Mobley/Green) that they are far ahead of Barnes in terms of overall play that its laughable to consider taking a flyer on Barnes Based on "Potential" Alone and thank god Masai is a smart GM and knows this and won't waste this pick on a prayer for Barnes to be any kind of threat on offense whats so ever...

Still think one of Suggs/Mobley are a Raptor come the 29th

Did you follow the 2003 draft?

I did. I don't get your point. Scouts were talking up Darko for the entire year. There was video of him doing incredible things in Europe, and scouts drooled over his talent level. He was very skilled as a 17 yr old 7 footer. The Raptors would have loved to get him at 4, everyone in this board would have loved to get him too.

What's the difference between that and Green,Mobley and Suggs? Haven't the draft experts been hyping them up all year? Why are these guys the Melo Wade and Bosh?

Let's take Green for example. Here's a guy that was hyped pre-season as a top highschool prospect, plays in the G league for a dozen games, and does stuff that might, or might not translate to the NBA. We don't have any data to show what production he should be getting to predict him a star in the NBA. There are guys putting up insane numbers every year in the G-league that become scrubs/fringe players in the NBA.

The point is the consensus can be wrong, and, historically, usually is wrong. At least in parts. If Masai drafts Barnes it's because he thinks he's a better pick to translate and grow his skills at the highest level.

That's the hard part here. Figuring out who has the skills that will grow and translate.

He might be avoiding a Darko.

What was your response to Masai picking Siakam over Skal 5 yrs ago?Mine was confusion. I hadn't seen Siakam play, and had been drooling over Skals skills for over a year. Masai was right on that one, and on most others. Now if he picks Barnes over Mobley/Suggs/Green, I'd say thats part criticism of the player left, and possibly, just as much about his projection on what Barnes can be.

These guys aren't static values that correspond to the consensus mocks. They are dynamic people that will grow, learn and develop into different players than they are today. Hopefully, you pick the guy that improves the most, and fits within a general winning team construct.

Well for me i go off my own scouting of these players as well , and i can say for certain Suggs/Green/Mobley are far ahead skill wise to what Barnes is ....Suggs is a better passer than Barnes and actually has a jump shot and with his form looks like it can get even better with time, Mobley is clearly a way better player than Barnes, Green has all the skill to become an elite scorer in the NBA In Time....

Barnes looks like a decent player in video i seen but his skills are just not there, He has no half court game what so ever, Can't Shoot the ball at all, Can't take a player off the dribble or size anyone up, has 0 1 on 1 moves....He just is an energy player, with good defense....

As for the Siakam/Skal thing on draft night i was mad when he went with Siakam cause he was an unknown guy for me at the time i was like who in the hell is this?....And then i went to youtube and did some research and looked up his highlights and quickly changed my mind and said ....Ok Ok nevermind this guy has something to his game and intrigued me right away ... After doing lots of research on guys at 4 already since there won't be any surprise picks like Siakam at 4 ....Just by looking at the players i can see a talent gap between Cade/Green/Mobley/Suggs from the rest of the guys who are more "Projects" and less talented offensive players (Which is what the Raptors need right now)..

If anyone wants to bring up a sleeper pick at all for me it would be Bouknight not Barnes...Cause Bouknight is a Hooper and a bucket getter and already has a fluid game all around unlike the other prospects in the Late Lottery

[Kreamy]

Barnes is a lot more Draymond Green than Simmons. His handle and explosiveness aren't on the same level as Simmons.

[mademan]

Barnes is a lot more Draymond Green than Simmons. His handle and explosiveness aren't on the same level as Simmons.

Ya, i'd say its somewhere between the 2, both in handles and explosiveness. But his intensity/hustle/heart/leadership is Green like

[Troubadour]

We’re a team that struggles to score in the halfcourt and you want to waste our pick on another guy who can’t score in the halfcourt LOL

1) You don't draft to solve a short-term problem. Should be drafting for the best player available.

2) I have Suggs and Barnes in the same tier of players, so I'm not saying Suggs would be a bad pick. I think he'd be a great player to get at #4. Barnes, to me, has higher upside because of the unique combination of his skillset and physical profile.

In terms of fit, you're right that it's not ideal. That said, I could see some really interesting ways Barnes fits in. The defensive versatility of Anunoby x Siakam x Barnes is unbelievable. Barnes primarily guarded 1s in college. His passing suggests he has strong processing skills on the court. That means you can switch, hedge, drop, and trap in pick and roll coverage. Barnes can be on the ball or off it.

Offensively, I'd like to see Barnes as a screener early on in his career. Getting him the ball in a short roll situation where he can play 4 on 3 will put him in advantage situations where he can take advantage of his finishing skills and passing vision. Off the ball, he needs to hit stand still threes or be an effective cutter. Ideally he's both. Despite not being an off the dribble shooter, he was a more efficient pick and roll ball handler than Cade in college. His skill development should focus on getting to a dribble pull-up at the elbow and eventually from 3.

Last thing is he can clearly fit in with good teams. He played on the best high school team in America, he filled a role on a veteran college team that had high efficiency on both sides of the ball and he has a great track record in USA Basketball. Great competitor, floor raising type of personality that you can build a culture around.

[Mehar]

We’re a team that struggles to score in the halfcourt and you want to waste our pick on another guy who can’t score in the halfcourt LOL

Yeah but Barnes might be able to play the Centre position, alongside Siakam and OG (lol). Even though he is not a very good rebounder, rim protector or shot blocker. Barnes is not a good jump shooter, and not a halfcourt player. Good playmaker and energy, but they do not go at 4. Reminds me when the Charlotte Bobcats drafted Michael-Kidd Gilchrist 2nd overall, since he had the same attributes as Scottie Barnes. Some of these posters fall in love with a guy who has great measurements. Picking Scottie Barnes at 4, over Mobley/Suggs would be a long-term mistake. Same with Kuminga. Mobley or Suggs should be the no-brainer pick. Guys like Barnes/Kuminga would be fine if we were still picking at 7.

[OAKLEY_2]

If all the Barnes to Toronto rumors are true, then you have to think the raps are moving on from Pascal. I don't see how Barnes fits with OG and Pascal. Masai probably wants a full rebuild too. That's probably the sticking point with his contract.

FVV/Malachi
Wiggins/GTJ
OG/7th pick
Boucher/Barnes
FA (Holmes?)/Birch

I don't see why an OG Barnes Pascal pairing won't work. Good size and strength from all three to play 2,3,4 possibly 5 position. Allows for interchangeable lineups. I think it makes us extremely difficult to play against defensively, along with Fred.

This would rely on OG and Pascal becoming consistent off the dribble guys as well, which is no guarantee either, but I have faith lol

This is not an endorsement on barnes, I just think it could work.

Barnes at 4 = No GD way.

[OAKLEY_2]

I hope he has a different strategy this high in the draft. Given the make up of our current core, I hope a bit more emphasis is placed on offense.

He went safe at 9 with Poetl... To me that screams two run homer with Suggs. If Mobley falls to 4 because of Cleveland Rocks then Grand Salami and Cheese.

Kuminga is the 3 run homerun

MU only went safe w Poetl bc it was a clear top 8 draft. That's actually a perfect example of the scouts getting it right, just not the order.

The clear top 8 going into that draft by most was, Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn, Hield, Brown, Murray, Chriss.

Kuminga has too many question marks and if we losing Lowry hello Suggs. Book it.

[OAKLEY_2]

Also do not think for a second Weltman and Masai won't try help each other especially picking 4-5. If Masai knows Weltman wants Kuminga and there is good will not to pick him rest assured that conversation has been had.