Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back

[Los_29]

No one is desperate to get swept in the first round. There is just not tangible proof that getting higher picks at the expense of selling off assets at a fraction of the value leads title. It just... hasn't happened.

So the attitude that people are dumb and ignorant because they want to go down that road is ... weird.

Is it possible that as we see more teams go that path, we'll see more tangible results? Sure... I'm open to that being the case. But so far, no evidence.

There are so many teams bunched up with us around the league including teams that we thought would tank like the the Jazz and Thunder. In addition to those teams you have the Heat, Hawks, Nets, Wizards, Mavs, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Pacers, Blazers, Warriors and Timberwolves.

Why is it that NBA franchises don't see the urgency in tanking but some people on here do?

Losing in the first round isn't really a big deal. As long it's not continually happening.

There are currently 15 teams between 29-34 wins (half the nba on pace for between 37-43 wins)

Only 4 teams are on pace for 50+ wins.

Other than HOU, DET, SA, CHA, everyone else is trying to win.

The combination of the play-in plus the flattening of the lotto odds have kinda killed tanking. The bottom teams are just terrible.

Yep and Detroit and Charlotte actually wanted to win this year too.

[OakleyDokely]

Duffman, we're making the following argument:

The Raptors have two options: 1) Tank to improve lottery odds; 2) Try to win and make a run at the playoffs.

The benefit of tanking is that you increase your odds of a higher draft pick which in theory is more likely to result in getting a better player. Of course the lottery can be a crap shoot and drafting higher doesn't necessarily mean you'll find a better player.

The benefit of making a playoff run is gaining playoff experience which in theory will help the development of the team moving forward. Of course, playoff experience doesn't necessarily mean a team will improve in a linear fashion (or improve at all).

TwO is arguing option 1 would be the better path forward. The reason is realistically, the Raptors might not even secure a 7 or 8 seed, and even if we do, we are severely overmatched by the Celtics and Bucks. We feel that increasing our lotto balls is a better path to long-term development than making the playoffs, getting smoked, and getting a middle-1st round draft pick.

What does tanking even mean?

Even if the Raps traded OG/VV at the deadline, a core of Siakam/Barnes/GTJ isn't tanking. There's still enough talent there to compete for the play-in, which doesn't take much to be in the hunt for. Maybe instead of picking 14th, you're picking 9th instead. That pick difference isn't big off to make a trade just to get worse.

[ItsDanger]

Charlotte trying to lose with that roster at beginning of season? Sounds like they were "competing". Where are the posters attacking this claim? Nowhere to be found like usual. At least be consistent in argument. Too much to ask though.

[tripa]

There are so many teams bunched up with us around the league including teams that we thought would tank like the the Jazz and Thunder. In addition to those teams you have the Heat, Hawks, Nets, Wizards, Mavs, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Pacers, Blazers, Warriors and Timberwolves.

Why is it that NBA franchises don't see the urgency in tanking but some people on here do?

Losing in the first round isn't really a big deal. As long it's not continually happening.

Its going to continually happen here if our best player is Siakam. We can all agree on that at least. Need a huge jump from Barnes in the next couple of years.

Sort of agree. We either need an actual #1 option or better depth / more reliable shooting.

I think we could get to 2nd round even conference finals with Siakam if the supporting cast was better.

This path would take a bunch of internal development, which I dont think will be possible under the current version of Nick Nurse.

We need to bring in a new set of offensive-minded assistant coaches and let somebody else do the rotations.

[2019nbachamps]

Duffman, we're making the following argument:

The Raptors have two options: 1) Tank to improve lottery odds; 2) Try to win and make a run at the playoffs.

The benefit of tanking is that you increase your odds of a higher draft pick which in theory is more likely to result in getting a better player. Of course the lottery can be a crap shoot and drafting higher doesn't necessarily mean you'll find a better player.

The benefit of making a playoff run is gaining playoff experience which in theory will help the development of the team moving forward. Of course, playoff experience doesn't necessarily mean a team will improve in a linear fashion (or improve at all).

TwO is arguing option 1 would be the better path forward. The reason is realistically, the Raptors might not even secure a 7 or 8 seed, and even if we do, we are severely overmatched by the Celtics and Bucks. We feel that increasing our lotto balls is a better path to long-term development than making the playoffs, getting smoked, and getting a middle-1st round draft pick.

What does tanking even mean?

Even if the Raps traded OG/VV at the deadline, a core of Siakam/Barnes/GTJ isn't tanking. There's still enough talent there to compete for the play-in, which doesn't take much to be in the hunt for. Maybe instead of picking 14th, you're picking 9th instead. That pick difference isn't big off to make a trade just to get worse.

Before the Poetl trade we were the 6th-8th worst team in the NBA. Our core isn't as good as some fans think. Our pre-deadline record spoke for itself.

[720]

Don't need to draft a superstar, we'll just get one in free agency. LOL

Or hope for another miracle Kawhi like trade where we trade a top 25-30 player for a top 5 player.

[OakleyDokely]

Duffman, we're making the following argument:

The Raptors have two options: 1) Tank to improve lottery odds; 2) Try to win and make a run at the playoffs.

The benefit of tanking is that you increase your odds of a higher draft pick which in theory is more likely to result in getting a better player. Of course the lottery can be a crap shoot and drafting higher doesn't necessarily mean you'll find a better player.

The benefit of making a playoff run is gaining playoff experience which in theory will help the development of the team moving forward. Of course, playoff experience doesn't necessarily mean a team will improve in a linear fashion (or improve at all).

TwO is arguing option 1 would be the better path forward. The reason is realistically, the Raptors might not even secure a 7 or 8 seed, and even if we do, we are severely overmatched by the Celtics and Bucks. We feel that increasing our lotto balls is a better path to long-term development than making the playoffs, getting smoked, and getting a middle-1st round draft pick.

What does tanking even mean?

Even if the Raps traded OG/VV at the deadline, a core of Siakam/Barnes/GTJ isn't tanking. There's still enough talent there to compete for the play-in, which doesn't take much to be in the hunt for. Maybe instead of picking 14th, you're picking 9th instead. That pick difference isn't big off to make a trade just to get worse.

Before the Poetl trade we were the 6th-8th worst team in the NBA. Our core isn't as good as some fans think. Our pre-deadline record spoke for itself.

They were 6th-8th before everyone got healthy and before they entered the soft part of the schedule. Even at that low point, they had a net rating on par with most lower tier playoff teams.

[720]

What does tanking even mean?

Even if the Raps traded OG/VV at the deadline, a core of Siakam/Barnes/GTJ isn't tanking. There's still enough talent there to compete for the play-in, which doesn't take much to be in the hunt for. Maybe instead of picking 14th, you're picking 9th instead. That pick difference isn't big off to make a trade just to get worse.

Before the Poetl trade we were the 6th-8th worst team in the NBA. Our core isn't as good as some fans think. Our pre-deadline record spoke for itself.

They were 6th-8th before everyone got healthy and before they entered the soft part of the schedule. Even at that low point, they had a net rating on par with most lower tier playoff teams.

Net rating is an irrelevant stat. We play our starters more than most people. So our losses will be close, impacting our net rating. Our wins are barely above positive. We improved the team with Poeltl. Had we stood pat or traded Gary or Fred we for sure solidify ourselves in that top 7 pick range.

[Los_29]

Don't need to draft a superstar, we'll just get one in free agency. LOL

Or hope for another miracle Kawhi like trade where we trade a top 25-30 player for a top 5 player.

I like the Warriors blueprint. Miss the playoffs 12 years in a row and then draft Steph Curry.

[OakleyDokely]

Before the Poetl trade we were the 6th-8th worst team in the NBA. Our core isn't as good as some fans think. Our pre-deadline record spoke for itself.

They were 6th-8th before everyone got healthy and before they entered the soft part of the schedule. Even at that low point, they had a net rating on par with most lower tier playoff teams.

Net rating is an irrelevant stat. We play our starters more than most people. So our losses will be close, impacting our net rating. Our wins are barely above positive. We improved the team with Poeltl. Had we stood pat or traded Gary or Fred we for sure solidly ourselves in that top 7 pick range.

Raptors have the 15th best net rating and 17th best win %. Over time, the Raptors win total was going to correct and it has.

[alpngso]

Read on Twitter

5. Will the Raptors regret their conservative trade deadline?

Instead of shedding O.G. Anunoby, Fred VanVleet, Gary Trent Jr., and/or Pascal Siakam in early February, the Raptors decided to give up a first-round pick to tack Jakob Poeltl onto this season’s most disappointing team.

Poeltl has done his part. In nine games, he’s averaging 15 points, nine boards, two steals, and two blocks while shooting 76.1 percent and generating a 29.2 player efficiency rating. The Raptors are plus-41 when he’s on the court and minus-57 when he sits. Most importantly, Toronto is 6-3 since the deadline, and it enjoyed its first four-game win streak of the season.

The offense is still generally swirling around a toilet bowl, and spacing issues haven’t dissipated. But clouds part when Poeltl shares the floor with VanVleet. In just a six-game sample size, those lineups are generating 121.3 points per 100 possessions. Their pick-and-roll partnership is a breath of fresh air, with Poeltl diving through the paint as a gigantic release valve. Throw him the ball, and good things happen.

This is all very nice, and Toronto may even round into the proverbial team nobody wants to face in the play-in tournament. Then, if they slide into the right first-round matchup (cough cough—the Sixers) they may even make actual noise. As they are currently built, though, they still can’t score enough to beat the Celtics or Bucks in a seven-game series—and maybe not the Cavaliers either.

VanVleet and Trent Jr. will still be free agents this summer. Anunoby still wants a larger role and is due a significant raise very soon. There’s still a seven-year age gap between Siakam and Scottie Barnes. And short of a miracle, this nucleus is still more likely than not to splinter this summer.

[Duffman100]

Don't need to draft a superstar, we'll just get one in free agency. LOL

Or hope for another miracle Kawhi like trade where we trade a top 25-30 player for a top 5 player.

Or hope for the miracle of drafting a top 20 player of all time.

Both ways it's incredibly unlikely.

[WuTang_CMB]

Still on track for 41-41

only 16 games left

[The Duke]

Fire it back up.
Whose with us again.

[HumbleRen]

Fire it back up.
Whose with us again.

[DelAbbot]

[bballsparkin]

I'm okay with the losses. Especially if the game's close. Chicago with one more loss and two less wins than the Raptors have a 32% chance at a top 4 pick while the Raptors have a 7 percent chance according to Tankathon. I'd rather them finish 10th if they make the play in. Deny the Raptors play off revenue and make them earn the playoffs. Get two games in before the reality of facing the Bucks or Celtics. And if they can't beat 9th oh well. Clearly not up to the task if that's the case.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Don't need to draft a superstar, we'll just get one in free agency. LOL

Or hope for another miracle Kawhi like trade where we trade a top 25-30 player for a top 5 player.

Or hope for the miracle of drafting a top 20 player of all time.

Both ways it's incredibly unlikely.

Arguably we could've made a try at the one thing though, even if it would've been unlikely. You might get a better chance at a Scottie Barnes type than if you don't try at all as well. But we went with the middling compete route instead.

[Clutch0z24]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=YahooSportsCanada

Lol after this passionate press conference just to be a "Play in for what" team smh

[Raps in 4]

Giving up a lottery pick to the Spurs next year js going to suck.