Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[DemHeavyHands]

Where he was picked has absolutely zero bearing on how he is judged now. It is entirely and absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Yes, it's impressive at what he has achieved from that spot. But he's not paid as a 27th pick and he's not treated like a 27th pick. You think if Jokic absolutely **** the bed next season the argument of "Well he WAS drafted 41st overall" would hold ANY weight?

Either he's held to the standards of what he's achieved, or he's treated as what his draft position typically dictates. You don't get to pick and choose when to apply those. His draft position cannot be used as a shield.

He’s just outside the top 20 highest paid players in the league though and has made two ALL-NBA teams and two ALL-Star teams and should have made another all-star game as well.

He’s not a top 5 player but he isn’t paid like one. He’s a very, very good player though and there is a significant gap between him and our 2nd best player. He’s got an incredible story, has worked extremely hard and seems to come into every year with something new to his game. NBA champion as well. Can’t take that away from him. Dude is a baller.

Congrats on yet again making up an imaginary argument I have no part of. I agree with everything you said, and have never challenged it. You're basically talking into the ether here, cause no one is disputing that.

Some people just like to hear themselves type

[ForeverTFC]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

You're presenting evidence that our team has been mediocre and equating that to Pascal?

Is Lillard mediocre to you? Because Pascal has achieved more team success in his career and across the last 4 years than Dame has. And Dame gets paid more.

[HumbleRen]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

You're presenting evidence that our team has been mediocre and equating that to Pascal?

Is Lillard mediocre to you? Because Pascal has achieved more team success in his career and across the last 4 years than Dame has. And Dame gets paid more.

No, that’s what you’re choosing to take away from what I’m posting lol.

I said verbatim that this is Masai’s fault. Siakam unfairly gets the heat because he’s the best player on the team. It comes with the job of being the “guy”.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I agree, but I never said anything about good or bad fans. Criticism can be warranted no matter who the player is, or what their achievements have been. But, defending poor performances based on draft spots is a terrible argument.

Okay, you're arguing for the right to criticize performance and the other poster was talking about criticizing/turning on a player for their poor performance. In the latter situation, I believe he was saying that his draft slot matters because there's a totality of work that we should look at. He's given more good than bad, and more than what was expected. That's where I was coming from with the Jokic comment. If he **** the bed next year you could criticize his play, but if you turned on him as a Nuggets fan I would wonder where your head was at? His underdog story is an undeniable part of his story. I don't think the poster was trying to argue that "well, he was the 41st pick, so what did you expect this year?"

I'm not saying you can't, criticize the player. I'm saying that using their draft position when they have a whole body of work that is not congruent with a player typically at that position, no longer matters.

Eventually you have to judge them based on their overall performance. He doesn't get treated like or paid like a 27th pick. A 27th pick in the 2023 draft makes 2mil/yr. If Siakam was making 2mil a year and someone was dumping on him even in a bad year, yeah they need their heads checked. But he's not, he makes close to 40mil, so he should be held to the standard of/criticized as someone who makes that amount of money.

Draft slot matters within a couple years of drafting, once you sign a fat contract, you no longer get to use that as any sort of shield. As I already said, if you want to celebrate the accomplishments of someone at that position, have at er, it's a huge accomplishment. But, Siakam is the number 1 option on our team, the highest paid player, and the franchise player, criticism is based on that, not where he was drafted.

Totality of work is a factor, but I'm not holding him accountable vs his first year averages of 4/3/0. I'm holding him accountable for his recent body of work. He's averaged 23/8/5 over the last 4 years, while being paid handsomely for it, those are the standards, not that he was drafted at the 27th spot. It holds zero weight in the present time frame, he outperformed his draft slot, and was given the bank account to match it, he outshone expectations for his draft slot, and accordingly had expectations raised due to said bank account/responsibilities.

Draft slot no longer matters at this point.

Again, the other person and I are talking about turning on the player, not the recent performance. But the way you put it here re Siakam makes it look even sillier that he's taking heat. 23/8/5 is a star line and so he's earned his pay.

[YogurtProducer]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

"Embarrassing fashion to the Sixers" - give me a damn break man.

For all intensive purposes, in games 1 and 2 we were down GTJ in G1/G2 (sick), Barnes in G2-G3, and FVV in all honestly was to hurt and probably should not have been playing (except for our pathetic bench kind of meant he was still the best option available)

Despite that, Siakam still averaged 23/7/6. Even game 6 when we got eliminated one of the only reasons that game was even close at half-time was because Siakam had 18/5/3 on 64% shooting at half (and Boucher giving up 20/10 off the bench in 17 minutes lmao)

4th best player on the floor

[HumbleRen]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

"Embarrassing fashion to the Sixers" - give me a damn break man.

For all intensive purposes, in games 1 and 2 we were down GTJ in G1/G2 (sick), Barnes in G2-G3, and FVV in all honestly was to hurt and probably should not have been playing (except for our pathetic bench kind of meant he was still the best option available)

Despite that, Siakam still averaged 23/7/6. Even game 6 when we got eliminated one of the only reasons that game was even close at half-time was because Siakam had 18/5/3 on 64% shooting at half (and Boucher giving up 20/10 off the bench in 17 minutes lmao)

4th best player on the floor

Harden was better, Embiid was better, Maxey was better.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

The only truly close game in the series that had any semblance of stakes was game 3 when it went to OT. We could of avoided going down 0-3 but Siakam decided to not score a single bucket in the 2nd half and OT of the game.

[YogurtProducer]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

It really isnt.

20/21 they were great, covid had an impact ultimately was successful
Tampa - covid. This should be striken from t he record
21/22 slow start found footing and fought vs sixers
22/23 - disaster
This year - why dont you let it play out

Cant believe you actually accuse others of cherry picking

One playoff round win since Kawhi left. That’s the only result I care about.

I care about end results, not excuses. Every team has their own **** that they’re going through. Bulls have literally lost their starting PG due to something they aren’t in control of yet that isn’t stopping anybody from calling them mediocre.

Results is what keeps management from having a job, not context.

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

[HumbleRen]

It really isnt.

20/21 they were great, covid had an impact ultimately was successful
Tampa - covid. This should be striken from t he record
21/22 slow start found footing and fought vs sixers
22/23 - disaster
This year - why dont you let it play out

Cant believe you actually accuse others of cherry picking

One playoff round win since Kawhi left. That’s the only result I care about.

I care about end results, not excuses. Every team has their own **** that they’re going through. Bulls have literally lost their starting PG due to something they aren’t in control of yet that isn’t stopping anybody from calling them mediocre.

Results is what keeps management from having a job, not context.

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

[YogurtProducer]

Lowry led us. This was still firmly his team and it’s best player.

Tampa is a write off but let’s be real, that was a play in team at best.

2021-2022 was a solid year. Unsustainable due to playing the guys into the ground. Lost in 6 in embarrassing fashion to the Sixers in where Siakam was arguably the 4th best player on the floor.

2022-2023 - Couldn’t even win the play in.

2023-2024 - Most likely a repeat of last year unless we make a big trade splash.

Sounds mediocre to me.

"Embarrassing fashion to the Sixers" - give me a damn break man.

For all intensive purposes, in games 1 and 2 we were down GTJ in G1/G2 (sick), Barnes in G2-G3, and FVV in all honestly was to hurt and probably should not have been playing (except for our pathetic bench kind of meant he was still the best option available)

Despite that, Siakam still averaged 23/7/6. Even game 6 when we got eliminated one of the only reasons that game was even close at half-time was because Siakam had 18/5/3 on 64% shooting at half (and Boucher giving up 20/10 off the bench in 17 minutes lmao)

4th best player on the floor

Harden was better, Embiid was better, Maxey was better.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

The only truly close game in the series that had any semblance of stakes was game 3 when it went to OT. We could of avoided going down 0-3 but Siakam decided to not score a single bucket in the 2nd half and OT of the game.

Again, you seem to confuse role players playing off of guys like Embiid/Harden as being "better".

You flip Embiid and Siakam and the Sixers win that series, Siakam's stats go through the roof, and suddenly your whole narrative changes. Use some **** nuance my guy.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

Game 1 - The guy had 24/7 on 50% shooting and 0 turnovers. Literally played pretty great in game 1.

Game 2 - we lost this game in the first half getting blown out in Q2 scoring 19 points. Siakam had 8 of them. Q3 we lost by 9 points. FVV/Precious/GTJ started that half and got 0 points. Yeah - blame Siakam here.

Game 3 - He had a bad game. No question about that. (but of course, we will ignore Hardens 14/6 G2, or Maxey's 11 point and 12 point G4 and G5, or Embiid's 19 points on 33% in G1, etc. Seems convinient)

And then of course, since Game 4 to 6 "don't matter" you are going to ignore the rest of the series like the 27/8/6 on 55% shooting did not happen.

[YogurtProducer]

One playoff round win since Kawhi left. That’s the only result I care about.

I care about end results, not excuses. Every team has their own **** that they’re going through. Bulls have literally lost their starting PG due to something they aren’t in control of yet that isn’t stopping anybody from calling them mediocre.

Results is what keeps management from having a job, not context.

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

5 series wins and a championship since 2018-19. Refute it.

See how stupid that is?

Context my guy. Context.

Just hilarious coming from one of the most pro-tankers on the board who is willingly throwing a tanking season into the equation to prove a point related to winning... but being realistic and saying 1 playoff win in 2 seasons does not sound as bad now does it?

[YogurtProducer]

He’s also, without a doubt, had no teammates of value post championship.

It’s similar to Bosh being the poster child of mediocrity. It’s not his fault, we just don’t have a high end team.

FVV was an all star, regardless of how fake it was.
OG is a top 5 defender in the league and arguably the best 3&D player in the league. Scottie was ROTY. Nurse was regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.

On paper, our core is better than any of the DD/Lowry led teams. The issue is fit and chemistry.

Siakam is in that weird position where he’s not good enough to build around but good enough to be the first option on a 2nd tier playoff team.

You can’t possibly turn and use Fred this way…

Jesus That is some shameless **** if I have ever seen it.

Our core IS better than those DD/Lowry teams - the difference is those DD/Lowry teams had some of the best bench production in the entire league, whereas our current iteration of teams have had some of the worst.

[HumbleRen]

"Embarrassing fashion to the Sixers" - give me a damn break man.

For all intensive purposes, in games 1 and 2 we were down GTJ in G1/G2 (sick), Barnes in G2-G3, and FVV in all honestly was to hurt and probably should not have been playing (except for our pathetic bench kind of meant he was still the best option available)

Despite that, Siakam still averaged 23/7/6. Even game 6 when we got eliminated one of the only reasons that game was even close at half-time was because Siakam had 18/5/3 on 64% shooting at half (and Boucher giving up 20/10 off the bench in 17 minutes lmao)

4th best player on the floor

Harden was better, Embiid was better, Maxey was better.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

The only truly close game in the series that had any semblance of stakes was game 3 when it went to OT. We could of avoided going down 0-3 but Siakam decided to not score a single bucket in the 2nd half and OT of the game.

Again, you seem to confuse role players playing off of guys like Embiid/Harden as being "better".

You flip Embiid and Siakam and the Sixers win that series, Siakam's stats go through the roof, and suddenly your whole narrative changes. Use some **** nuance my guy.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

Game 1 - The guy had 24/7 on 50% shooting and 0 turnovers. Literally played pretty great in game 1.

Game 2 - we lost this game in the first half getting blown out in Q2 scoring 19 points. Siakam had 8 of them. Q3 we lost by 9 points. FVV/Precious/GTJ started that half and got 0 points. Yeah - blame Siakam here.

Game 3 - He had a bad game. No question about that. (but of course, we will ignore Hardens 14/6 G2, or Maxey's 11 point and 12 point G4 and G5, or Embiid's 19 points on 33% in G1, etc. Seems convinient)

And then of course, since Game 4 to 6 "don't matter" you are going to ignore the rest of the series like the 27/8/6 on 55% shooting did not happen.

Game 1 - A literal blow out by the 2nd quarter, That's almost half the game in garbage time. I do not care about someones numbers on the losing team in a blow out.

Game 2- Another blow out.

Game 3 - Game 3, Bubble Siakam made an appearance. Went to the FT line 0 times, Scoreless in the 2nd half and OT.

Game 4 - He genuinely played well.

Game 5,6 - Non competitive games.

The series was over after game 3 in which Siakam and FVV hid from the moment. I do not care what happened after game 3, it was garbage time after that.

[Scase]

Okay, you're arguing for the right to criticize performance and the other poster was talking about criticizing/turning on a player for their poor performance. In the latter situation, I believe he was saying that his draft slot matters because there's a totality of work that we should look at. He's given more good than bad, and more than what was expected. That's where I was coming from with the Jokic comment. If he **** the bed next year you could criticize his play, but if you turned on him as a Nuggets fan I would wonder where your head was at? His underdog story is an undeniable part of his story. I don't think the poster was trying to argue that "well, he was the 41st pick, so what did you expect this year?"

I'm not saying you can't, criticize the player. I'm saying that using their draft position when they have a whole body of work that is not congruent with a player typically at that position, no longer matters.

Eventually you have to judge them based on their overall performance. He doesn't get treated like or paid like a 27th pick. A 27th pick in the 2023 draft makes 2mil/yr. If Siakam was making 2mil a year and someone was dumping on him even in a bad year, yeah they need their heads checked. But he's not, he makes close to 40mil, so he should be held to the standard of/criticized as someone who makes that amount of money.

Draft slot matters within a couple years of drafting, once you sign a fat contract, you no longer get to use that as any sort of shield. As I already said, if you want to celebrate the accomplishments of someone at that position, have at er, it's a huge accomplishment. But, Siakam is the number 1 option on our team, the highest paid player, and the franchise player, criticism is based on that, not where he was drafted.

Totality of work is a factor, but I'm not holding him accountable vs his first year averages of 4/3/0. I'm holding him accountable for his recent body of work. He's averaged 23/8/5 over the last 4 years, while being paid handsomely for it, those are the standards, not that he was drafted at the 27th spot. It holds zero weight in the present time frame, he outperformed his draft slot, and was given the bank account to match it, he outshone expectations for his draft slot, and accordingly had expectations raised due to said bank account/responsibilities.

Draft slot no longer matters at this point.

Again, the other person and I are talking about turning on the player, not the recent performance. But the way you put it here re Siakam makes it look even sillier that he's taking heat. 23/8/5 is a star line and so he's earned his pay.

I feel like you're being wilfully obtuse here. I never said he hasn't earned his pay, hell, I'm not even saying he deserves a mountain of criticism. All I said, was using his draft position to defend his shortcomings is pointless and irrelevant. That's it.

[ForeverTFC]

One playoff round win since Kawhi left. That’s the only result I care about.

I care about end results, not excuses. Every team has their own **** that they’re going through. Bulls have literally lost their starting PG due to something they aren’t in control of yet that isn’t stopping anybody from calling them mediocre.

Results is what keeps management from having a job, not context.

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

No one is refuting that. What they're reacting to is the complete lack of context in your conclusion.

For your sake, I just hope you're being disingenuous in the debate because the other explanation would get me in trouble with the mods.

[Scase]

"Embarrassing fashion to the Sixers" - give me a damn break man.

For all intensive purposes, in games 1 and 2 we were down GTJ in G1/G2 (sick), Barnes in G2-G3, and FVV in all honestly was to hurt and probably should not have been playing (except for our pathetic bench kind of meant he was still the best option available)

Despite that, Siakam still averaged 23/7/6. Even game 6 when we got eliminated one of the only reasons that game was even close at half-time was because Siakam had 18/5/3 on 64% shooting at half (and Boucher giving up 20/10 off the bench in 17 minutes lmao)

4th best player on the floor

Harden was better, Embiid was better, Maxey was better.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

The only truly close game in the series that had any semblance of stakes was game 3 when it went to OT. We could of avoided going down 0-3 but Siakam decided to not score a single bucket in the 2nd half and OT of the game.

Again, you seem to confuse role players playing off of guys like Embiid/Harden as being "better".

You flip Embiid and Siakam and the Sixers win that series, Siakam's stats go through the roof, and suddenly your whole narrative changes. Use some **** nuance my guy.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

Game 1 - The guy had 24/7 on 50% shooting and 0 turnovers. Literally played pretty great in game 1.

Game 2 - we lost this game in the first half getting blown out in Q2 scoring 19 points. Siakam had 8 of them. Q3 we lost by 9 points. FVV/Precious/GTJ started that half and got 0 points. Yeah - blame Siakam here.

Game 3 - He had a bad game. No question about that. (but of course, we will ignore Hardens 14/6 G2, or Maxey's 11 point and 12 point G4 and G5, or Embiid's 19 points on 33% in G1, etc. Seems convinient)

And then of course, since Game 4 to 6 "don't matter" you are going to ignore the rest of the series like the 27/8/6 on 55% shooting did not happen.

Game 1 - Siakam scored 8 points in the first half, game was a 20pt blowout by halftime. Then he scored 16 in the second half after the game was already over.

Game 2 - Siakam scored 14 points in the first half on 5/12 shooting. Only player who shot worse was Fred, hell Siakam only had 8 because he took 36% of the shots that entire quarter. Him and Fred took 77% of all shots in the second quarter. So yeah, he had 8 of that 19, but we only scored 19 because him and Fred took damn near every shot, and shot a collective 23.5%. Second half he was 2/8. Only player who shot worse was Fred.

Game 3 - Down 10 after the first quarter, Siakam shot 2/5 for 4 points. Only player who shot worse was Fred. Had an ok second quarter going 4/6 for 8 points. Third quarter 0/2. Fourth quarter 0/2. OT 0/1. Ended the game 6/16, only player who shot worse was Fred.

Game 4 - Has a great game, no complaints.

Game 5 - Has a good game, no complaints.

Game 6 - Has a good first half shooting 7/11 with 18 points. Second half completely disappears going 2/6 with 6 points.

Is it his fault that we lost that series? Nah, if that was to lay at anyones feet that was Fred stinking it up the 4 games he played. But, Siakam is not free of criticism, he had 2 genuinely good games and the rest of the series was complete crap.

You know, since you were talking about nuance, I figured I'd give you some context. Since a series average means nothing without context.

[HumbleRen]

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

No one is refuting that. What they're reacting to is the complete lack of context in your conclusion.

For your sake, I just hope you're being disingenuous in the debate because the other explanation would get me in trouble with the mods.

I know what the context is, I'm simply saying the results matter more than the context.

This is objectively the worst stretch of Masai's career since he's been with us and frankly, alot of it is on him for us being in this mediocre state.

[sbsat]

One playoff round win since Kawhi left. That’s the only result I care about.

I care about end results, not excuses. Every team has their own **** that they’re going through. Bulls have literally lost their starting PG due to something they aren’t in control of yet that isn’t stopping anybody from calling them mediocre.

Results is what keeps management from having a job, not context.

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

Why dont u start with what defines being mediocre? Because loosely speaking im thinking 50-60% of the league is mediocre using your logic. Maybe even higher..

[deck]

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

No one is refuting that. What they're reacting to is the complete lack of context in your conclusion.

For your sake, I just hope you're being disingenuous in the debate because the other explanation would get me in trouble with the mods.

I know what the context is, I'm simply saying the results matter more than the context.

This is objectively the worst stretch of Masai's career since he's been with us and frankly, alot of it is on him for us being in this mediocre state.

And yet, it is still a far more successful 4 year stretch than any other 4 year stretch pre-Masai in the entire history of the franchise.

This argument is in-congruent coming from you because in other threads you were touting the Orlando Magic, who have made the playoffs once in 10 years.

Apparently results don't matter?

[YogurtProducer]

Harden was better, Embiid was better, Maxey was better.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

The only truly close game in the series that had any semblance of stakes was game 3 when it went to OT. We could of avoided going down 0-3 but Siakam decided to not score a single bucket in the 2nd half and OT of the game.

Again, you seem to confuse role players playing off of guys like Embiid/Harden as being "better".

You flip Embiid and Siakam and the Sixers win that series, Siakam's stats go through the roof, and suddenly your whole narrative changes. Use some **** nuance my guy.

Siakam showed up when the series was effectively over lol.

Game 1 - The guy had 24/7 on 50% shooting and 0 turnovers. Literally played pretty great in game 1.

Game 2 - we lost this game in the first half getting blown out in Q2 scoring 19 points. Siakam had 8 of them. Q3 we lost by 9 points. FVV/Precious/GTJ started that half and got 0 points. Yeah - blame Siakam here.

Game 3 - He had a bad game. No question about that. (but of course, we will ignore Hardens 14/6 G2, or Maxey's 11 point and 12 point G4 and G5, or Embiid's 19 points on 33% in G1, etc. Seems convinient)

And then of course, since Game 4 to 6 "don't matter" you are going to ignore the rest of the series like the 27/8/6 on 55% shooting did not happen.

Game 1 - Siakam scored 8 points in the first half, game was a 20pt blowout by halftime. Then he scored 16 in the second half after the game was already over.

Game 2 - Siakam scored 14 points in the first half on 5/12 shooting. Only player who shot worse was Fred, hell Siakam only had 8 because he took 36% of the shots that entire quarter. Him and Fred took 77% of all shots in the second quarter. So yeah, he had 8 of that 19, but we only scored 19 because him and Fred took damn near every shot, and shot a collective 23.5%. Second half he was 2/8. Only player who shot worse was Fred.

Game 3 - Down 10 after the first quarter, Siakam shot 2/5 for 4 points. Only player who shot worse was Fred. Had an ok second quarter going 4/6 for 8 points. Third quarter 0/2. Fourth quarter 0/2. OT 0/1. Ended the game 6/16, only player who shot worse was Fred.

Game 4 - Has a great game, no complaints.

Game 5 - Has a good game, no complaints.

Game 6 - Has a good first half shooting 7/11 with 18 points. Second half completely disappears going 2/6 with 6 points.

Is it his fault that we lost that series? Nah, if that was to lay at anyones feet that was Fred stinking it up the 4 games he played. But, Siakam is not free of criticism, he had 2 genuinely good games and the rest of the series was complete crap.

You know, since you were talking about nuance, I figured I'd give you some context. Since a series average means nothing without context.

Come on man. Games are 48 minutes long and you are attempting to use the small sample of 1Q of G1 where he shot 2/5 as a negative

Only you can say with a straight face "Had an ok second quarter going 4/6 for 8 points" like shooting 66% form the field and scoring 8 points in a quarter is not good

You are the one who does not understand averages. Anytime Siakam does good it is brushed off as "ah that does not count", but if Siakam performs poorly that is what matters. The goal posts CONSTANTLY move with you and your clique.

AGAIN - use some damn nuance. The due was playing alongside hobbled FVV, sick GTJ, and hurt Barnes for most of the series and still post up a respectable fight.

Offense got 11 points worse when Siakam set (from 111pts/100 to 100pts/100) that series as well.

Anyone trying to put any blame on Pascal for that series is frankly just blind with hatred. He was the only guy on our team who was even somewhat consistent (or just straight up available to play, no disrespect to Barnes/FVV/GTJ as that is not their fault either they got hurt).

This just all goes back to calling that series loss "embarrassing" an absolute joke.

[HumbleRen]

One more playoff win than 13 other franchises in that same time period (tied with 6 teams with 1).

Just ridiculous to ignore A) we were 1 shot away from the ECF in the bubble or B) one of those 4 season we very much blatantly tanked or that C) 60% of our starting lineup was sick or missed games in 2022 against PHI or that D) 2022-23 was the first "disappointing" season since the championship.

GTFOH with this

Results baby, all that matters.

One playoff series win from 2019-2020 until now. Refute it.

Why dont u start with what defines being mediocre? Because loosely speaking im thinking 50-60% of the league is mediocre using your logic. Maybe even higher..

Poor asset management, poor culture, poor roster construction, watchable product and most importantly, lack of a firm direction.

We’re maybe 1/5 at best ?