Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[mademan]

having KD as your lone scorer is not a recipe for success. need to have ingram and IQ remain.

IQ can stay, but paying Ingram 40mill to play out of position, with no C and Scottie as the only above average defender in the lineup...that's not a recipe for success either.

[Scase]

KD+Ingram+Barnes+IQ would be quite the qroup. Who knows if it would work, but it would be fun to find out.

If he doesn't cost a lot to get him, I think it's a better move than Giannis, no one has any clue how either BI or Scottie will play with a true number 1. We all assume they need one based on past performance, this would be a low risk way to gauge their performance. If it doesnt work out, you know to move on from them, if it does, then you know now that they are worth trying to build around.

This is Masais "wait and see" approach on steroids IMO. Giannis is a big gamble, would require more assets, and would require shifting the team even more to get players to fit around him (E.G. a stretch 5). Granted this loses your opportunity to snag him, but it seems more and more like it isn't an option anyways.

I say we go after KD before it's official that Giannis doesn't want to leave the Bucks, cause once he does, the cost for KD likely goes up.

[JB7]

The Raps were injured/tanking most of the season and still finished 15th in defensive rating. The Suns were trying to win and they had a defensive rating ranking them 27th.

A massive part of that defense is going out the door in the deal though, and not being replaced.

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

[OakleyDokely]

A massive part of that defense is going out the door in the deal though, and not being replaced.

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

[tsherkin]

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

I struggle to think of what a title team looks like with KD on our roster, though. He isn't That Guy any more, you know? He'll give you an efficient 26 and all that, but he isn't hot on D and he isn't a great playmaker, so we'd still need another higher-end perimeter guy to drive it all, and then still figure out how to tie together a good enough D.

[Mattatron]

The Raps were injured/tanking most of the season and still finished 15th in defensive rating. The Suns were trying to win and they had a defensive rating ranking them 27th.

Suns core was almost injured the entire year, too.

[JB7]

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

What is that follow-up move? That's why I don't think they are really interested in KD. I think the Suns or KDs camp are putting it out there to generate interest from other teams.

[Mattatron]

having KD as your lone scorer is not a recipe for success. need to have ingram and IQ remain.

IQ can stay, but paying Ingram 40mill to play out of position, with no C and Scottie as the only above average defender in the lineup...that's not a recipe for success either.

Ingram is redundant when you have KD in your Lineup, especially since Ingram wouldn't have the ball much in his hands because of KD's presence. Trade BI for role players to strengthen the bench would be the move.

[MiamiSPX]

Trading BI now would ensure that no "name player" ever agrees to Toronto again. I know that 95% already feel that way, but that would be a good way to get it close to 100.

[OakleyDokely]

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

I struggle to think of what a title team looks like with KD on our roster, though. He isn't That Guy any more, you know? He'll give you an efficient 26 and all that, but he isn't hot on D and he isn't a great playmaker, so we'd still need another higher-end perimeter guy to drive it all, and then still figure out how to tie together a good enough D.

He's not at the peak of his powers, but he's still an elite scorer who I think can be the go to guy in many in-game situations with the right supporting cast around him. If you're asking him to be one of the best defenders who takes all the shots, that's a recipe for disaster.

[ConSarnit]

A massive part of that defense is going out the door in the deal though, and not being replaced.

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I disagree. If you’re willing to give up a protected 1st you can get a starting C. ORL has a glut of C’s and you could probably pry one of WCJ or Bitadze away. DAL will probably be looking to move a big. If we are willing to use the MLE there are also FA options:

Lopez
Capela
Adams
Horford

If we are dead set on Maluach at 9 then we could run a platoon of FA C + Maluach and play some minutes with Barnes or Mogbo as a small ball C.

[djsunyc]

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

What is that follow-up move? That's why I don't think they are really interested in KD. I think the Suns or KDs camp are putting it out there to generate interest from other teams.

let's say it's rj + yak + future 1st for kd.

then you can flip ochai or gradey for kessler or bitadze (yes i know it is an overpay but that will be required to get a team together)

draft maluach or queen at 9.

then the squad to start next year is

iq, bi, kd, scottie, kessler/goga

shead, jakobe, ochai or dick, mogbo, maluach/queen

then change more down the road.

[JB7]

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I disagree. If you’re willing to give up a protected 1st you can get a starting C. ORL has a glut of C’s and you could probably pry one of WCJ or Bitadze away. DAL will probably be looking to move a big. If we are willing to use the MLE there are also FA options:

Lopez
Capela
Adams
Horford

If we are dead set on Maluach at 9 then we could run a platoon of FA C + Maluach and play some minutes with Barnes or Mogbo as a small ball C.

Lopez, Capela, Adams, Horford are all pretty much done. You can't expect them to play heavy minutes on a team trying to compete for a chip (which is what they are looking to do if they acquire Durant).

Maluach isn't guaranteed at 9, and even then, he is still a pretty raw rookie that will need time for development.

Then the team is left with option C, which is go to teams with depth at C, and try to make a deal, with them knowing the Raps are desperate to acquire a C, which will cost them a lot. Plus, there still needs to be matching salaries, and the Raps don't exactly have a lot of dead weight contracts, so more bodies are being moved to acquire the C.

To me, this idea of the Raps pursuing Durant is not logical at all. Causes too many issues with the team in the short term, which is really all you can depend on Durant for.

[Shakril]

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

I think past experience has shown that C's (competent ones) don't just fall into the lap of teams. They very much could walk into the season with Mogbo and Barnes as the C for the team.

I disagree. If you’re willing to give up a protected 1st you can get a starting C. ORL has a glut of C’s and you could probably pry one of WCJ or Bitadze away. DAL will probably be looking to move a big. If we are willing to use the MLE there are also FA options:

Lopez
Capela
Adams
Horford

If we are dead set on Maluach at 9 then we could run a platoon of FA C + Maluach and play some minutes with Barnes or Mogbo as a small ball C.

Be realistic about what you wish for, its not that easy to get a quality C. The 4 you mentionend are past their prime and cant replace what we would lose. There is absolutly no reason to weaken ourselves without reason. You will not find a C for the cheap price and is as good or better than we already have.

Maluach might be someday, but not in year 1 or 2, which is the timeframe we are in right now.

[The Warrior]

"If Giannis is available you pay whatever to get him"

- Real GM Raptors board

This is the sentiment of bored, dopamine seeking, endless phone scrolling fans who likely live in their parents basements and don't have the time for anything. They don't care about basketball development or the intricacies of club management when it comes to long term decision making. It's really just low level IQ fandom from people who cant hold a conversation in a normal setting because they probably have some undiagnosed ADD.

My dude, you're projecting. Your insecurities are showing.

[TerryTate]

the Ingram/Scottie/KD trio is what elevates this team to a different tier imo. Yes, finding a passable C will be important, but I think that is achievable with the assets we'd still have available.

The spacing on that kind of front court would be horrible.

[mtcan]

Trading BI now would ensure that no "name player" ever agrees to Toronto again. I know that 95% already feel that way, but that would be a good way to get it close to 100.

Agree.

This franchise has always had a marketing problem to prospective players and trading a guy who wants to come here and hasn't even played a single game...that is bad ju ju.

[douggood]

Trading BI now would ensure that no "name player" ever agrees to Toronto again. I know that 95% already feel that way, but that would be a good way to get it close to 100.

Agree.

This franchise has always had a marketing problem to prospective players and trading a guy who wants to come here and hasn't even played a single game...that is bad ju ju.

ingram didnt come here because its Toronto, he came here cause we were willing to extend him.

[NotMyKawhi]

I think if they make a sure term move for KD, that means they want to win this year, so I'd be shocked if there weren't follow up moves.

What is that follow-up move? That's why I don't think they are really interested in KD. I think the Suns or KDs camp are putting it out there to generate interest from other teams.

let's say it's rj + yak + future 1st for kd.

then you can flip ochai or gradey for kessler or bitadze (yes i know it is an overpay but that will be required to get a team together)

draft maluach or queen at 9.

then the squad to start next year is

iq, bi, kd, scottie, kessler/goga

shead, jakobe, ochai or dick, mogbo, maluach/queen

then change more down the road.

They arent giving you kessler for Ocahi lol

[sidsid]

Doesn't work. PHX would be over by $5M .. and they cant aggregate.

In the RJ/JP deal they would actually save $7.5M

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification on that.

Yeah, in terms of Phoenix getting back a legit center in this deal, options become limited. Unless they like Naz Reid? Also I dont know how Phoenix views Jabari Smith Jr.

He's a FA, i think he opts out, I don't think you can S&T either if you are in the 2nd apron

Yeah, it's limited for sure

Houston isn't even offering FVV or a centre .. and they want to keep those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode (right move) and PHX is all in on keeping Booker

The only team is San Antonio because looks like KD would go there but to be honest, the West is such a blood bath that it's going to take a lot more thinking to do it then say Toronto cuz East is wide open.

The Rockets thinking has to change again if the commitment to Booker is real and he's off the table. That was the Rockets deadline gamble when they passed on KD. If KD gets the Suns their balanced roster trades (Jak/RJ+, Gobert/Donte+, etc. type trades), you're still looking at a team that will be fighting for the play-in and speedbagging late season tanking teams.

The Rockets bet on Green and he showed what people thought he was in the playoffs. That's just not an asset now and you're stuck with it for 3 years. If you can upgrade that salary slot for the Suns picks back in KD you solve your mistakes and find the star you've been looking for, even though you had higher long term hopes (Giannis/Booker).